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 Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:52 pm
The Thirteen may not have been written by Hashem but they were divinely inspired by him.
Reform is fine by me, on their own. They can not kep Shabbos, eat bacon, marry gentiles, and go to church, er temple, on Sunday all they want to. I have no problems with that.
I do however have a problem when they come around calling me outdated, and old-fashioned because I actually follow the rules and eat, sleep, and breathe Judaism. I make room in my life for G-d. How can you ask G-d to make room in his divinity for you?
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:43 pm
Stxitxchxes The Thirteen may not have been written by Hashem but they were divinely inspired by him. Reform is fine by me, on their own. They can not kep Shabbos, eat bacon, marry gentiles, and go to church, er temple, on Sunday all they want to. I have no problems with that. I do however have a problem when they come around calling me outdated, and old-fashioned because I actually follow the rules and eat, sleep, and breathe Judaism. I make room in my life for G-d. How can you ask G-d to make room in his divinity for you? lol I agree with Stiches in this one, though I think it would be nice if Reform spent a little more time on religion, and cared a little more about the traditions and stuff. Nothing against any Reform Jew, though. 3nodding
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:59 pm
darkphoenix1247 Stxitxchxes The Thirteen may not have been written by Hashem but they were divinely inspired by him. Reform is fine by me, on their own. They can not kep Shabbos, eat bacon, marry gentiles, and go to church, er temple, on Sunday all they want to. I have no problems with that. I do however have a problem when they come around calling me outdated, and old-fashioned because I actually follow the rules and eat, sleep, and breathe Judaism. I make room in my life for G-d. How can you ask G-d to make room in his divinity for you? lol I agree with Stiches in this one, though I think it would be nice if Reform spent a little more time on religion, and cared a little more about the traditions and stuff. Nothing against any Reform Jew, though. 3nodding on a personal level, it's a matter of choice. being reform definatley isn't the worst thing someone can do. i'm more worried about the long-term affects.
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Stxitxchxes The Thirteen may not have been written by Hashem but they were divinely inspired by him. Reform is fine by me, on their own. They can not kep Shabbos, eat bacon, marry gentiles, and go to church, er temple, on Sunday all they want to. I have no problems with that. I do however have a problem when they come around calling me outdated, and old-fashioned because I actually follow the rules and eat, sleep, and breathe Judaism. I make room in my life for G-d. How can you ask G-d to make room in his divinity for you? Well said.
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:39 pm
nathan_ngl Stxitxchxes The Thirteen may not have been written by Hashem but they were divinely inspired by him. Reform is fine by me, on their own. They can not kep Shabbos, eat bacon, marry gentiles, and go to church, er temple, on Sunday all they want to. I have no problems with that. I do however have a problem when they come around calling me outdated, and old-fashioned because I actually follow the rules and eat, sleep, and breathe Judaism. I make room in my life for G-d. How can you ask G-d to make room in his divinity for you? Well said. quite. wait a sec Stxitxchxes church, er Temple on Sunday I go to both, inter faith marriage how I came into existince which I can't spell. Reform is built on informed choice. This means If I understand an obligation and the motivation for it I can decide if it is right for me. I read the weekly Torah Parsha, have studied Pirke Avot, am studying for my barmitzvah and know the origins of the ceremony. Its not like we aren't educated in our faith Stxitxchxes I do however have a problem when they come around calling me outdated, and old-fashioned
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:03 pm
MANNOWAR Reform is built on informed choice. This means If I understand an obligation and the motivation for it I can decide if it is right for me. the motivation and obligation behind judaism is to serve hashem. we serve hashem by following the torah. the torah contains more information than you'll ever need. i think that covers it. also, the whole "right for me" mindset is in a way against the torah. when one sees something in the torah that one doesn't understand, one must assume that it is because one doesn't understand it, not because it does not make sense. therefore, one should not decide if something is "right for me". one should decide if one is "right" for it. in other words, it's you, not them. Quote: I read the weekly Torah Parsha, have studied Pirke Avot, am studying for my barmitzvah and know the origins of the ceremony. Its not like we aren't educated in our faith but are you faithful in your education?
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:13 pm
MANNOWAR Reform is built on informed choice. This means If I understand an obligation and the motivation for it I can decide if it is right for me. quote] How many Reform are informed? MANY Reform Jews I talk to know very little about their traditions and the meanings behind them. I know I don't know everything, but, when I find Reform Jews who don't know about Shavuot, or who use Haggadahs in their seder that don't contain the entire Hallel (I was at a seder like that... me and my father ended up leading Hallel cause we were the only ones who KNEW it well enough to do so... and we turned the page to find that MOST of it was missing.) Or who don't fast on Yom Kippur, or who don't know that there ARE other fast days, even if they, like me, don't observe them. I can understand an educated choice for Reform, I suppose, but don't tell me that your congregation is, as a whole, well-educated. I know my Conservative congregation isn't always. The ones who are there regularly are, but we have our share of twice a year Jews, whom I guess like a Conservative High Holidays service, or else I don't know why they aren't Reform... and many of them don't know a thing. This past week we had a Bar Mitzvah family, and none of them knew to stand for the Barchu.
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:25 pm
RoseRose MANNOWAR Reform is built on informed choice. This means If I understand an obligation and the motivation for it I can decide if it is right for me. quote] How many Reform are informed? MANY Reform Jews I talk to know very little about their traditions and the meanings behind them. I know I don't know everything, but, when I find Reform Jews who don't know about Shavuot, or who use Haggadahs in their seder that don't contain the entire Hallel (I was at a seder like that... me and my father ended up leading Hallel cause we were the only ones who KNEW it well enough to do so... and we turned the page to find that MOST of it was missing.) Or who don't fast on Yom Kippur, or who don't know that there ARE other fast days, even if they, like me, don't observe them. I can understand an educated choice for Reform, I suppose, but don't tell me that your congregation is, as a whole, well-educated. I know my Conservative congregation isn't always. The ones who are there regularly are, but we have our share of twice a year Jews, whom I guess like a Conservative High Holidays service, or else I don't know why they aren't Reform... and many of them don't know a thing. This past week we had a Bar Mitzvah family, and none of them knew to stand for the Barchu. yet another reason why i do not support reform. this type of communal "accepted ignorance" is not jewish at all. religion isn't the responsibilty of the rabbi (unlike a priest), everyone is obligated to be learned.
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:30 pm
ZonkotheSane RoseRose MANNOWAR Reform is built on informed choice. This means If I understand an obligation and the motivation for it I can decide if it is right for me. quote] How many Reform are informed? MANY Reform Jews I talk to know very little about their traditions and the meanings behind them. I know I don't know everything, but, when I find Reform Jews who don't know about Shavuot, or who use Haggadahs in their seder that don't contain the entire Hallel (I was at a seder like that... me and my father ended up leading Hallel cause we were the only ones who KNEW it well enough to do so... and we turned the page to find that MOST of it was missing.) Or who don't fast on Yom Kippur, or who don't know that there ARE other fast days, even if they, like me, don't observe them. I can understand an educated choice for Reform, I suppose, but don't tell me that your congregation is, as a whole, well-educated. I know my Conservative congregation isn't always. The ones who are there regularly are, but we have our share of twice a year Jews, whom I guess like a Conservative High Holidays service, or else I don't know why they aren't Reform... and many of them don't know a thing. This past week we had a Bar Mitzvah family, and none of them knew to stand for the Barchu. yet another reason why i do not support reform. this type of communal "accepted ignorance" is not jewish at all. religion isn't the responsibilty of the rabbi (unlike a priest), everyone is obligated to be learned. true, not knowing the law does not exempt one from punishment (a common phrase used not only in sate-law- it appears many times in judaism Q&A's).
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:50 pm
nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane RoseRose MANNOWAR Reform is built on informed choice. This means If I understand an obligation and the motivation for it I can decide if it is right for me. quote] How many Reform are informed? MANY Reform Jews I talk to know very little about their traditions and the meanings behind them. I know I don't know everything, but, when I find Reform Jews who don't know about Shavuot, or who use Haggadahs in their seder that don't contain the entire Hallel (I was at a seder like that... me and my father ended up leading Hallel cause we were the only ones who KNEW it well enough to do so... and we turned the page to find that MOST of it was missing.) Or who don't fast on Yom Kippur, or who don't know that there ARE other fast days, even if they, like me, don't observe them. I can understand an educated choice for Reform, I suppose, but don't tell me that your congregation is, as a whole, well-educated. I know my Conservative congregation isn't always. The ones who are there regularly are, but we have our share of twice a year Jews, whom I guess like a Conservative High Holidays service, or else I don't know why they aren't Reform... and many of them don't know a thing. This past week we had a Bar Mitzvah family, and none of them knew to stand for the Barchu. yet another reason why i do not support reform. this type of communal "accepted ignorance" is not jewish at all. religion isn't the responsibilty of the rabbi (unlike a priest), everyone is obligated to be learned. true, not knowing the law does not exempt one from punishment (a common phrase used not only in sate-law- it appears many times in judaism Q&A's). that's not exactly what i was talking about. what i meant was, a rabbi is no greater religiously than a common jew (neccessarily). nor can a rabbi be religious for one. one has an equal obligation to keep the torah as the greatest rabbi or the poorest schoolchild.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:28 pm
Chop down those nasty quote trees, b'vakasha 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:08 pm
ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl true, not knowing the law does not exempt one from punishment (a common phrase used not only in sate-law- it appears many times in judaism Q&A's). that's not exactly what i was talking about. what i meant was, a rabbi is no greater religiously than a common jew (neccessarily). nor can a rabbi be religious for one. one has an equal obligation to keep the torah as the greatest rabbi or the poorest schoolchild. I understood what you meant, but usually the case today is like you said- the people are ignorant and think its okay because they simply don't know the laws. The thing is, its NOT okay, because they have to be just as learned as the rabbi. Why? Because not knowing the law does not exempt you.
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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:38 pm
quote="nathan_ngl"]
Because not knowing the law does not exempt you.
Not nessicaraly true, a very common Talmudic debate:
If one does something in a state of unawareness have they sinned?
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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:39 pm
ZonkotheSane MANNOWAR Reform is built on
Quote: I read the weekly Torah Parsha, have studied Pirke Avot, am studying for my barmitzvah and know the origins of the ceremony. Its not like we aren't educated in our faith please clarify your question
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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:40 pm
MANNOWAR ZonkotheSane MANNOWAR Reform is built on
Quote: I read the weekly Torah Parsha, have studied Pirke Avot, am studying for my barmitzvah and know the origins of the ceremony. Its not like we aren't educated in our faith please clarify your question doncha just hate it when your quote gets messed up
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