|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:24 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:30 pm
I think the lesson here is to realize the importance of care in the use of certain words. Many of us in the gay community have had to deal with sexual violence, and sometimes having it mentioned with regard to us, while it can be used in a funny sense, is not really all that funny or complimenting to the target of the comment. Hearing that someone wants to rape me does neither make me blush nor does it make me smile. It irks me, quite frankly, but I generally ignore the comment because I know the person did not mean it maliciously.
That's my response. I don't like it, but I don't go against it, though I agree fully with Astri's choice in taking action.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:33 pm
Just one little thing that I would like to point out to the masses, there are countless issues regarding the usage of words, Things such as rape, gay, retarded, they all are used casually and then there are the usage of labels or derrogetory statements. The major diffrence with these is that there will always be a person that takes offence to something that someone else says. If I were to use the word f** to describe myself, there will be someone somewhere that Will think it insulting no matter what.
Also, I have a friend, she was raped, and she still regardless of that occurence says that she wants to rape me. Odd no?
I believe that people that experience the issue at hand will either look on it as pure shame, or look at it as the past, and they may be the ones to use it in such context, or others that think that it is wrong, that may have such strong opinions, have had to deal withit be themselves or a close friend or family member, protectiveness comes from fear.
I'm sorry, I said too much into this...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:41 pm
JoVo I think the lesson here is to realize the importance of care in the use of certain words. Many of us in the gay community have had to deal with sexual violence, and sometimes having it mentioned with regard to us, while it can be used in a funny sense, is not really all that funny or complimenting to the target of the comment. Hearing that someone wants to rape me does neither make me blush nor does it make me smile. It irks me, quite frankly, but I generally ignore the comment because I know the person did not mean it maliciously. That's my response. I don't like it, but I don't go against it, though I agree fully with Astri's choice in taking action.
But i am to lazy to think of one right now. So if anyone else wants to. Come up with something within mature lines that we can have a well-rounded debate about.
And i hope no one has taken any offence to anything since i have started this thread. As it is all opinion-based and should be used to open people up more to other views on things, rather than a heated arguement that leads to the hatred of one another. Lets all try to stay civilized, 'kay? Thank you wink
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:43 pm
This is a thread for serious discussion and debates about matters here in The Gay Guild, or any other matters that people may like to create. And i would thank you not to place comments like that here, as it is not the proper atmosphere for that kind of speach. This is why we have a Chit-Chat thread. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:29 pm
JoVo That's my response. I don't like it, but I don't go against it, though I agree fully with Astri's choice in taking action. That's Ms. Astri to you as well. you know why it's important for us to be bound equally by the rules. I take offense to everyone spelling it offence, but the dictionary seems to indicate it's an acceptable variant, though not the primary spelling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:37 pm
I hope I don't get in trouble for this.
This is a little off topic, but it is kinda serious discusion, it's about a rule of yours. Why is it we have to call crew members Ms. or Mr.? Do you have a superiority problem or something? If I was running a guild I'd want to be treated just like everyone else, not as some superior being that's so almighty you must refer to them a Ms. or Mr... The purpous of this guild is to make everyone feel equal, isn't it? Does that really give an equal feeling? To me it doesn't, but it may be just me. And uh.. I guess that's my two cents. Where did that phrase come from anyways? eek
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:51 pm
Nusumi I hope I don't get in trouble for this. This is a little off topic, but it is kinda serious discusion, it's about a rule of yours. Why is it we have to call crew members Ms. or Mr.? Do you have a superiority problem or something? If I was running a guild I'd want to be treated just like everyone else, not as some superior being that's so almighty you must refer to them a Ms. or Mr... The purpous of this guild is to make everyone feel equal, isn't it? Does that really give an equal feeling? To me it doesn't, but it may be just me. And uh.. I guess that's my two cents. Where did that phrase come from anyways? eek It was a silly arbitrary thought I had, and I decided I liked the formality it gives to discussions like this one. You don't have to use it all the time, just when you're talking about someone as a mod or asking for their help as a mod. It also catches one's eye, to get the mod's attention faster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:53 pm
takeshi_sakami As i have learned that there are quite a few people here who also have personal referrance to this issue, but have not come to terms with it, as i have. I want to note that "being okay with something" does not connote "having come to terms with it." Some people feel absolutely okay with having been abused by their parents, and will "come to terms with it" by being promiscuous and lascivious (as I have done). I have had to regress a great deal in order to heal. As such, there was a time that I was "okay with" the word, but I had certainly not come to terms with it. I'm working toward that now, and I'm looking at healthier solutions that do not involve promiscuity and the continuation of a cycle of abuse. So, do not assume that "not being okay" is the same as "not having come to terms." This isn't something you "come to terms with." You can heal and move on, but the scar remains as a permanent and very painful reminder of the things that were done to you. Vague That's Ms. Astri to you as well. you know why it's important for us to be bound equally by the rules. Considering my current situation and the fact that I'm actually in a difficult situation because I don't feel that my supervisor at work reserves the right to have me call her by certain titles considering her own supervisors don't require it and I have serious issues with belittlement considering my invalidating childhood experiences that I'm currently struggling with... this is a discussion you really don't want to get into with me right now. We'll talk about it over AIM if you like once I get the Internet back (Thursday morning).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:07 pm
JoVo takeshi_sakami As i have learned that there are quite a few people here who also have personal referrance to this issue, but have not come to terms with it, as i have. I want to note that "being okay with something" does not connote "having come to terms with it." Some people feel absolutely okay with having been abused by their parents, and will "come to terms with it" by being promiscuous and lascivious (as I have done). I have had to regress a great deal in order to heal. As such, there was a time that I was "okay with" the word, but I had certainly not come to terms with it. I'm working toward that now, and I'm looking at healthier solutions that do not involve promiscuity and the continuation of a cycle of abuse. So, do not assume that "not being okay" is the same as "not having come to terms." This isn't something you "come to terms with." You can heal and move on, but the scar remains as a permanent and very painful reminder of the things that were done to you. Vague That's Ms. Astri to you as well. you know why it's important for us to be bound equally by the rules. Considering my current situation and the fact that I'm actually in a difficult situation because I don't feel that my supervisor at work reserves the right to have me call her by certain titles considering her own supervisors don't require it and I have serious issues with belittlement considering my invalidating childhood experiences that I'm currently struggling with... this is a discussion you really don't want to get into with me right now. We'll talk about it over AIM if you like once I get the Internet back (Thursday morning). *big hugz* We'll deal with it. You'll be OK, hon. The people there and the people here are always with you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:55 pm
Vague *big hugz* We'll deal with it. You'll be OK, hon. The people there and the people here are always with you. Thanks! *hug*
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:53 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:39 pm
It's certainly weird when decisions one has made are publicly discussed in a semi-permanent, readable format without one's being a party to it. That's not supposed to mean anything, by the way; just a comment. My first response to this thread was that I needed to explain why I acted the way I did. While it seems takeshi thinks the issue resolved, I would still like to give a short explanation. Basically, JoVo sums it up here: JoVo Many of us in the gay community have had to deal with sexual violence, and sometimes having it mentioned with regard to us, while it can be used in a funny sense, is not really all that funny or complimenting to the target of the comment. I think that, considering the nature of this guild, we need to be especially conscious of the words we choose to use and how we use them. Also, I considered this particular statement by takeshi needlessly graphic. I've noticed other people using the term "rape" as a joke in the guild. It's never been something I've been especially happy with, and I consider it a very insensitive joke to make. You never know who might be reading your post, and who you might be hurting. However, there are many things in the world that make me unhappy, most generally accepted, so I felt that official action was perhaps inappropriate. On the other hand, I felt like takeshi's specification that he would like to "rape JoVo in his sleep" was crossing a line. While it was obviously a joke, I also see that as very serious threat of a grotesque and violent nature. Hence my course of action. If anyone would like to speak with me further on my decision and action, please feel free to contact me through either PM or IM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:46 pm
Note: This is using what has been previously stated to make my point but to also, hopefully, explain some reasoning of mine. The Connotation and Denotation of Words in the English LangaugeAs according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary*, Main Entry: con·no·ta·tion Pronunciation: "kä-n&-'tA-sh&n Function: noun 1 a : the suggesting of a meaning by a word apart from the thing it explicitly names or describes b : something suggested by a word or thing : IMPLICATION
The connotation of the words gay, f*****t (or f**), rape, sex, murder, and many other words have changed with society and over time. As a generalization, in America we understand and comprehend the negative aspects of words far before we think about them in a positive light.
In this case, we shall use rape as an example. Rape is defined as, 'to sieze or take away by force' while being used as a transitive verb. This could be interpreted in many ways.
To rape the land or skies, to rape the economy, and, as the first implied meaning we think of, to rape a person.
What are we taking away by force or siezing? A persons confidence in themselves, their belief in the good of human beings, their innocence if they are virgins, and their emotional safety along with other things I havent named.
These are only connotations and what the human mind perceives by determining factors such as home country, home life, ethnics and morals, and important issues. Do you care about the economy or are you an activist for defending human rape victims?
Immunity Against Horrors in American Society
As previously stated, many believe that the younger generations are becoming immune to the horrors of life and that only with a first or second hand experience do they become open to the knowledge freely presented to them. Perhaps this free exchange of information is part of the problem.
Statistics, crime reports, newscasters..all of this contributes to this immunity against horrors. We see people today more and more as numbers rather then people. Those in large businesses usually have no problem with this; those from small town communities cant understand it.
When people become numbers and statistics, we begin to stop caring.
Those Who Will Be Offended..No Matter What
Honestly, I dont care if you're deciding what to eat, what to wear, what music to listen to, who you're going to have personal relationships with, and how you're going to use words...
..someone will always be offended.
Thats why in highschool you have that lovely handbook of school rules on how to behave appropriately as to try and not offend anyone. Thats why we have laws on behavior and an ethnic code.
My therapist told me that people are responsible for their own feelings and emotional reactions. Yes, rape victims have been traumatized and cannot begin the healing process until they are ready, but that does not mean that they have to take offense to something someone else says.
I find certain things to be offensive but theres absolutely no point in trying to change someone. As a community we are aware of this. We cannot change a person but we can try to educate them on our lifestyle and maybe give them something to think about so they can alter their own opinion and way of thinking.
We have not changed people; they have found the need to change in themselves. We simply provided the motivation.
I do not by any means accept, like, or support non-consenual relations or sexual relations in anyway. It is robbing someone of a piece of them, of their being. I, on the other hand, see no problem with the word rape used in the context that it was.
I believe everyone realized and understood it was used for humorous reasons. If Mr. Jovo has/had a problem with the context in which it was used, thats something he needs to discuss either with the 'offender' or make a sort of public discussion based solely on what members of this forum do not wish to hear. (I like that idea, by the way.)
If Ms. Astri had a personal problem with it in the same way described above, then it should be taken to a private discussion and all reasonings be set out in a clear fashion. If it were in the purposes of purely being a mod, then a public reply saying that perhaps to watch the language, or use of language, in the future would be wise would be all that we needed.
I am simply stating in an extended, and hopefully intelligent, form that I did not find the context offensive and that if I were to yell, 'I like Barney and sleep with a teddy bear all night long then brush my teeth with a pink toothbrush!' off the top of the school stadium while in a cheerleader outfit and not be a cheerleader (also; not a uniform from my school), then someone would find it offensive and immoral.
*Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:19 pm
Shinobi Kitty -[extremely factual reasoning]-
Now if you really want to go deep into words, think about the things you say, and think about another language that you do not understand...
if you just open your mind to the thought that the "words" they are saying is just sounds then you realize that everything you say is a manipulation of the vocal cords to represent something hollow, yet we attach value to it based on what it is wanted to represent. but can you really represent something without meaning?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
