Welcome to Gaia! ::

First of all, what verse is he even quoting? Sounds like he's making stuff up that isn't in the bible. YHWH originally created humankind perfect and we chose to sin; thus, humanity became marred out of its own decision. Humans in sin is not God's will, hence punishment for being in it and a plan to get us out of it.

I honestly think he's making up a phrase (maybe not intentionally), but I can't find that verse anywhere. Plus, God "bearing us into sin" is not even what happened. Genesis 1 to Genesis 3 describe YHWH making a perfect creation and man falling by it's own choice. Jeremiah has a nice little parable that describes the same process of humans becoming corrupt and God working to return us to a pleasing form:



God didn't mar the clay, it became marred. In context of the chapter (and the whole book of Jeremiah), it's talking about the judgment coming upon Israel for being disobedient/disloyal to God; he would be reshaping them as he sought fit through catastrophe. His intention being that they would repent back to him and his ways (away from the path of sin/evil they had deviated to—out of their own choice).

For your sake, to not let their darts of doubt faze you, I'll answer, but I don't think you should continue conversing with the people replying. Until they read with a believing heart, and read through whole books at a time (like all of Isaiah from chapter 1 to 66, or all of Genesis from chapter 1 to 50), they won't understand the full concept being expressed or they'll keep misinterpreting things.

Anyway, the person who replied is twisting definitions to suit their own theory (or, giving them the benefit of the doubt, they're not considering all of the possible definitions the bible gives a certain word and how it's used): sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), not a created "dark force". Meaning, YHWH said "function this way" and you don't; or, YHWH said "don't function that way" and you did, despite his commands—that is sin. The "darkness" at creation isn't sin; no one has sinned/violated the law yet at that point in Genesis. YHWH created physical light and physical darkness (dark matter, IMO). That darkness, once again, is not sin.

Transgressing or violating said law is the creations' own choice. He orders you to do something, but you do the opposite (as was clearly seen in Genesis), and thus you are in sin for going against what he said and there are negative consequences. Adam and Eve's offspring suffered the physical consequences of said sin (not in the garden, toiling from cursed soil, subject to death, waiting on prophecy to be fulfilled until we can get back to the garden, etc...).

Sin is compared to a debt, that is true, and if you can't pay that debt, He'll send you to a torturous prison (Matthew 18:34-35), not saved; he or she should've kept reading the chapter. Luckily, Jesus paid our debt; and by "our" I'm referring to we who associate with his sacrifice; we don't have to trust in our own works to get "out of the red" (out of debt). Whoever partakes of the sacrifice, confessing all their sins unto it, will be covered by the sacrifice—just like Old Testament law (Leviticus 16:21), declared blameless, sins covered and atoned for.

The word "evil" is used in two ways: (1) to describe wicked (sinful) behavior or attitudes that violate his law/his will or (2) to describe "physical destruction", oftentimes through sword, pestilence and famine; those are YHWH's weapons of choice to destroy wicked nations and living people. The verses he/she quoted (Psalm 34:21 and Isaiah 45:7) are a case of the latter "evil" (physical destruction) through war, pestilence, plague or famine. YHWH, with his weapons of choice, will slay the wicked; the wicked (who love sin) are the ones who hate the righteous; the wicked nations will be desolated. By definition, the righteous are not treasuring sin in their hearts; so, how are they getting the idea that sin is what saves us? Evil, the destruction YHWH sends against our enemies, yeah that saves us, but not living in sin. The wicked are being desolated in that verse, not the righteous. Clearly, there are two groups of people there and only one is being destroyed (the wicked). We don't "get saved" by indulging in sin, but by repenting of sinfulness, confessing it all, and trusting in our atoning sacrifice (Jesus) to make us righteous/blameless before God. That's the only way sinners will get saved / have their debts paid off with a guarantee.



YHWH only wants people who love him back, willingly; that's why the test is necessary. Out of all these pleasurable, earthly things, which individuals will choose YHWH over everything in the world? will a threat prevent them from straying (everlasting fire, which wasn't even originally intended for humans, Matthew 25:41)? If "mom" sleeps around with other men while "dad" is away, does she actually love "dad"? No. If she did, she would be exclusively his as she promised when she came into covenant with him. Those are the kinds of people who will not live with God in the future. They don't truly love him, his covenant, or the promise made to "dad" to stay loyal to him.

About cancer and children suffering: death and disease entered the world through sin—Adam and Eve's sin, as enticed by Satan. We're suffering the consequences of their actions. YHWH allows suffering so we learn that our disobedience to what he says brings misery and hardship on innocent people. Had Adam and Eve obeyed, things would be fine. But if a person is not interested in living according to his ways, then that person is not interested in Him, and won't be living with Him in the future. His commands are designed to keep us out of harm's way. Now that we're in a fallen world, suffering through death and disease, it's all the more reason to listen to what he has to say: those who trust in him will be given a new body upon resurrection, living in immortality in the future with him, no more death, if we believe in the son and follow him. But the consequences of Adam and Eve's decisions brought death and disease into this world. This world won't be destroyed until its appointed time. We won't return to the garden until after that.

Your brother should quote the verse that says YHWH loves us "unconditionally"; the whole bible speaks against such a claim. Condition: believe in Jesus, condition: obey me; condition: repent of all your sins, then receive forgiveness. Not unconditional for salvation. The one who is the god of this age is Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4); the age to come is the millenial reign of Jesus. So whatever he's experiencing now, it's not of God, but of the world and the ruler of this world (Satan does have dominion over the planet; hence why, when he tempted Jesus in the desert, he could offer all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus). That's another thing: if everything were well under Satan's dominion, no one would be looking forward to Jesus' millenial reign. Why would YHWH save Satan's dysfunctional reign? YHWH owes him no favors; those who repent from the world, and the ruler of this world, unto YHWH and his son, will be saved.

It's clear that your brother is dismissing the bible without actually reading it and instead is believing a lot of popular sayings that can't even be found in the text. If he wants to understand and find God, he needs to seek with his wholeheart via his written words.



side note: God did write at least two things directly with his own finger: the stone tablets containing the ten commandments for instance; Moses received them fully-written on already (Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10).



As for you, Jesuslittleprincess, make sure to read the bible on a consistent basis so you'll be prepared to answer. I recommend reading daily. After a year, you will have read/studied/meditated on at least 365 chapters (or more, if you read more than one chapter a day). Always ask our Heavenly Father for wisdom and discernment in prayer when you're about to start reading as well.

You might just be speaking sarcastically. But if you're not, I have food for thought for you...


Are you sure that you, believer of the Quran, want to say such things?

Okay. Just curious.