Welcome to Gaia! ::

thanks!

I know- I was just giving you a heads up.


But that lead in is part of the reason and it creates a part of the problem- that people don't think I need an option that's right for me.

Because it's a template, you can change it in the template, send out a notice and you don't have to do it manually to every page.

I'm pretty sure that they're not doing the same coding, because we know that it doesn't take that same thing in order to code a Wall Post.

I didn't start anything on FB or Gaia- but I am ok with helping people who do. Starting a thread on Gaia and using it's potential as a kind of Social Media to make change is just like how people use FB to organize Pride events and stuff. Why should it matter where the people are getting the message out if it's getting out?

But I don't want to have to have separate and unequal representation by being forced to go through steps that Cis-people don't have to do. If I'm proud and out about my Gender, I shouldn't have to hope people find out about it in a hidden section- if it's "Basic Information" for Cis-people, why can't it be Basic Information for me too?

But my gender is as much "basic information" for me as it is for someone like my cuz or my sister or my girlfriend.

As I explained it's a social justice issue, and it's parallel- discrimination is equally wrong if a private business is doing it or the government is, it's as wrong to make things seperate and unequal based on the color of our skin, who we love, or what gender we are.

But then wouldn't you say all the groups who form on FB shouldn't be forming on FB and should just get out and do stuff? Doing what you can where you can is how stuff gets done- and the medium shouldn't matter if you get to your goal.

But we're also breaking them down by insisting on equality and by educating people- and this is just another way to do that.
Just because this kind of stuff isn't easy to get ride of doesn't mean we can't make change- I kind of see this as saying "Live with it, don't try and change it", because if we believe stuff can change there's no point in saying it's been that way a long time.



So you had that happened- and you want it to continue to happen to me over and over again... why?

so everything else is good, then?

I think that's better for sure- but it still excludes people. cat_sweatdrop
Dancehall Hysteria>> It looks good to me!

Then please address the reason as a whole, perhaps it wasn't good diction I used yes that's true, but it wasn't meant to stand alone either. And sure it's a part of the problem but then again, what is the problem? That facebook doesn't have an option that fits you perfectly? You and what, five thousand others? Versus the other 7 Billion it works just fine with? Not to be mean or anything but, not everyone can bend to the whims of a few.


Ah but then everyone has to go in and manually fix things too. Because eliminating the box means you eliminated the options, and so the billions so people who were on Facebook and just fine now start complaining about it to Facebook and their inbox is so cramped it takes forever to empty out the complaints on accidently riding their profile of that information.


Actually I did my research. The coding process is the exact same. There's say three original code 'languages' that a programmer learns. The simple one is binary, the others being yet more complex than binary. SO yes the coding is the same, the results are just different.


No but my counter wasn't that you started this, just that you are posting now about it here where few people are reading it rather than on facebook where people affected by this are. How do you know I have a facebook? PErhaps few of us actually do. I mean, if you want to fix a facebook issue then look out for someone on Facebook that's trying to do that. It makes more sense, since then the facebook team actually can see who cares about the issue. I'm not a facebook editor or anything, it's likely none of us are. The only way to get them to see is to do something about it where they can.



Okay, several things I want to point out.

1. Maybe they don't have to, but that doesn't mean it's unfair and unequal. Unfair and unequal would be the denial to be who you are on Facebook. Yes facebook isn't perfect like that but nothing in the world is. A perfect world is Utopia, which actually the word Utopia means it doesn't exist.
2. IT's not 'hidden'. Some people don't do much if anything in their basic information, and focus almost entirely on the about me. And actually, when you look at the about area in their new timeline template the about me section appears before the basic information does. So the basic info is more hidden than the about me.
3. No one says it isn't basic at all. Also could you stop using that term? Honestly I have no idea what it means and that's starting to get on my nerves a little bit, nothing against you though.


Ok, nothing here I haven't said above. Just curious though, why did you repeat an argument?



Then don't use facebook. The government may not be an optional idea (There's a government one way or another in the end) but Facebook isn't a need. If you don't like facebook you can just not use it. Simple as that, we don't have a choice about the government but we do about facebook.



Not entirely true. Yes they should use facebook, part of its purpose was entirely to promote ideas to bring issues to the attention of everyone. SO its good for uniting say the United STates of America in a purpose. BUT, here's the but, it can only be so good. Don't like an idea? DOn't just sit at a computer and say it, go out there and show it! Have an issue with facebook? COmplain on facebook and get together other facebook users that share your idea. Groups *can* form elsewhere in the internet/world, but it's sort of pointless if you don't do so at the source too. If the USA relied entirely on other sources (like facebook) there wouldn't be a lot of progress because no one is working where the problem actually is. It's the same in this case.


Another one with several issues:


1. You can change a lot of things but you can't *ever* break human nature. It takes time and frankly, time is something neither of us have. Maybe five hundred years from now racism and anti-LGBT will be a memory of the past, but it wont be in three weeks, months, years, decades, or centuries. It's a tree that doesn't like to give up its roots.

2. I never, EVER said not to try and change it. That's putting words in my mouth and I personally do take a massive amount of offense at that. What I mean it as is, "Live with it, realize you won't live to see the changes, but change it anyways so the ones after us won't have to." THat's what I really mean.



Ok, this one... Just... tear out my heart why don't ya? I never EVER said that. I don't want it now and frankly I don't even want, say, a mass murderer to have that happen to them. THis comment just did worse to me than my grandpa's death. I still hold nothing against you but, why? WHy comment that way? WHy put those words in my mouth? I was just saying I've been there too. Forgive me when I don't reply I just... That really hurt.

I learned about discussions like this in philosophy class- parts of arguments can be right when other parts are wrong, so explaining that is ok. I also have an easier type talking when I can break ideas up into smaller pieces- so if you think that something I say is relevant to another part of the discussion you can move them together if it helps.

Marginalizing me and other members of the guild like that is really rude- it doesn't fit me and MILLIONS of other people. But even if it was just one person- on a moral level should one person be mistreated just because most people are ok with mistreating that person that way because of their gender?

Ethics aren't conditional like that.

The simple solution there is to default it to what people signed up with and then let people who want to change it change it. Problem solved!

Can I see your research please?

None of which matters because it doesn't matter where the point of origin for the movement is- the movement has started and people are taking action without harming Gaia or FB.
It will spread however it spreads- so starting here or there is irrelevant.


Yes it does mean it is unfair and unequal.
Not really- because this is a seperate and unequal situation, I am separated because of my gender from using the same function that you get to because you're Cis. It targets people who aren't Cis, so it is unequal.

This is the same argument people used to make against Blacks and segregation. cat_stare That being forced to the back of the bus was better than being forced to walk- so people like me should be thankful for whatever we get.
It's also important that systematic marginalization like this feeds into discrimination on a larger scale- fostering acceptance is done through little acts like this.

That isn't a reason to not fix what we can though.


Personal details are hidden unless you're friends with someone, so it is still unequal and it creates a situation where I can be accused of being a "trap" when a Cisgendered person can identify who they are freely.


It is a technical term pulled directly from the site- I used "Basic Information" because that is the literal title that FB gives gender.
If you dislike the term- think of how I feel about having my gender identity, a basic part of who I am concealed or misrepresented.

It was further example because it proves that people I know are being treated differently, and in a way I want to be treated but can't be because of my gender.

If I had a choice I wouldn't- but it is required for my job. I didn't own an account until I was required to have one by my employer and while I am trying to pay rent, school, and deal with all other kinds of crazy stuff I can't afford to back out of a contract of employment, and since it is a contract, asking me to break something that is legally binding isn't ethical when doing so would only support Cis-privilage and further marginalize me.


Since we're already taking action on FB directly- that pretty much covers this argument completely.

At one point it was human nature to live in trees- so I'm going to contest that.

Every action we take today brings us closer to that day- so this argument is flawed.

Ok, I'm sorry I upset you.
With that in mind though, you have said a lot of hurtful things that have marginalized my identity and showed NO empathy for what it is like to have businesses, government and individual people minimize, ignore and negate my identity. All we are saying is "let's give feedback to FB. Here's a coding solution! this will solve this case of systemic marginalization!" If you're not saying "Don't try, live with it", most of your post is pretty pointless and kind of misleading because it isn't offering any positive suggestions only saying how things won't work and how it's not a big deal.

I comment that because your posts have until this point been very unsupportive- I explained why it hurts to be in this situation and as someone who has gone through it, it's hard for me to read your post only for you to say "And sure it's a part of the problem but then again, what is the problem? That facebook doesn't have an option that fits you perfectly? You and what, five thousand others? Versus the other 7 Billion it works just fine with? Not to be mean or anything but, not everyone can bend to the whims of a few."

If someone said that to your solution for having it not happen to you again- or any of the other things posted, you can see why that kind of Privileged thinking is harmful and what it actually means to me because I'm on the receiving end of it all the time.

Saying "not to be mean" doesn't make something not mean. cat_sweatdrop

Ok. I understand, but if you're able to continue sometime later that's ok too.