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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:30 am
Well, animals did not fall from the grace of God . . .
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:43 pm
emorhconom esor Why does an armadillo and a rollie pollie look a like? Probably for a defensive advantage. The outer part is tougher, and allows it to roll into a ball. Probably similar to how the rhinocerous beatle has a horn for combat. I guess some creatures have similarities among each other.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:04 pm
Dramatica Angeliqua I guess we'll find out when we get there, huh? wink I would love to see some baby bunny rabbits there. emotion_kirakira
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:07 pm
Considering the Kingdom of Heaven will be on earth (Revelation 21:1-2), I think there will be animals. There were animals before the fall in Eden, after the fall, and if we're being restored to the Garden of Eden and the tree of life (Rev 22:2), then why not? I don't think animals go to Sheol (no paradise or hell for them; they didn't disobey or refuse to "believe" anything), at the very least animals are not mentioned when Lazarus and the Rich Man are spoken about in Lk 16:19-31, one in Abraham's Bosom (paradise) and the other guy on the torturous side (hell). That's where everyone (who dies) goes to await judgment; if you believed, you're in paradise, if not then you're in hell. Animals don't fit into this. But we also have Solomon saying this: Quote: Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 (NIV) 18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[a]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Footnotes: a. Ecclesiastes 3:19 Or spiritEcclesiastes 9:10 (NIV) 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. Ecclesiastes 12:7(NIV) 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. He knows about Sheol, knows our bodies turn back to dust, and that the spirit/breath goes back to YHWH, but he doesn't mention the "soul" part. Job 14:10-15 reads like the New Testament: people go to sheol/the grave when they die and no one will rise until the heavens pass away. But again no mention of animals (remember, I'm talking about Sheol here, not the Kingdom of Heaven, where only his resurrected believers, the righteous, will dwell; edit: and possibly animals, hehe). note: the verses I'm referring to in the Old Testament show up as "Sheol" (שְׁאוֹל) in the original Hebrew, even though it's translated as "the grave", "the realm of the dead", or something similar depending on your version.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:12 pm
Khalid Ibn Walid Dramatica Angeliqua I guess we'll find out when we get there, huh? wink I would love to see some baby bunny rabbits there. emotion_kirakira Who said you're going there? Muslims don't have the assurance of salvation that only Jesus can provide. It's God's Free Gift to all who accept Him as their Savior to show how much He truly loves, is merciful, and cares about us. Jesus' death on the cross is sheer proof of God's overwhelming, indescribable, incomprehensible love for us. But if you don't have Jesus in your heart, you'd just be stuck with worrying whether or not you're good enough for your god's mercy to reach you. Since everyone is a poor sinner, and Islam says your god overlooks one's sins if their goodness weighs more on the scale, that means you have to be at least 51% good and 49% sinful to get into heaven. The God of Christianity is so pure and holy that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23). Sin is detestable in the sight of a holy God, so no measure of sin is allowed in heaven. This is why we need a Savior. Would your god die for you just as my God died for me? Does your god love you so much that he would die for your sake? What does Islam have that Jesus doesn't? Also, you seem to still hold a grudge against me, seeing as I'm the only person you quoted in this thread... rolleyes
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:36 am
 I feel that the do go there, in revelations there is a verse saying that God will ride down on a white horse or something like that. God created animals and just because they didn't eat the fruit and they are still all innocent I do think that they are all saved and will be in fact in Heaven. A spirit and soul keeps you alive, all living things have these I do in face believe that. It is what keeps you going until you are called home. If you have that and die I feel that you go on to wherever your maker deems necessary.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:02 am
Dramatica Angeliqua Khalid Ibn Walid Dramatica Angeliqua I guess we'll find out when we get there, huh? wink I would love to see some baby bunny rabbits there. emotion_kirakira Who said you're going there? Muslims don't have the assurance of salvation that only Jesus can provide. It's God's Free Gift to all who accept Him as their Savior to show how much He truly loves, is merciful, and cares about us. Jesus' death on the cross is sheer proof of God's overwhelming, indescribable, incomprehensible love for us. But if you don't have Jesus in your heart, you'd just be stuck with worrying whether or not you're good enough for your god's mercy to reach you. Since everyone is a poor sinner, and Islam says your god overlooks one's sins if their goodness weighs more on the scale, that means you have to be at least 51% good and 49% sinful to get into heaven. The God of Christianity is so pure and holy that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23). Sin is detestable in the sight of a holy God, so no measure of sin is allowed in heaven. This is why we need a Savior. Would your god die for you just as my God died for me? Does your god love you so much that he would die for your sake? What does Islam have that Jesus doesn't? Also, you seem to still hold a grudge against me, seeing as I'm the only person you quoted in this thread... rolleyes
Yes, we Muslims believe that we enter Paradise by earning the Grace of God through our works.
Now if God put us here on earth and we are supposed to please him by actions, who sets the standards? Only God can. We Muslims believe that if we follow the law prescribed and put forward by the infinite God, we are therefore in a way following a law whose source is from the infinite and therefore in a way meeting the standards of the infinite God to please him. We believe that any other actions performed besides those set by God are useless. Now God does not need our actions. He does not benefit from them either. However, he loves that we obey him.
Christians say that we cannot follow the law perfectly. That is why us Muslims believe in a forgiving God. A lot of people have this misconception that forgiveness is contrary to justice. However, this is incorrect.
1st reason:
We are not sure if we are going to become corrupt people later on in the future and stop practicing our religion properly. We do not know the future.
This same concept is found in Christianity
1 Corinthians 15:2
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Notice the condition that Paul puts. He says, IF. Meaning it is possible for some one to leave the belief. How many people claimed to be Christians and now have left Christianity? How do you know you wont be one of them? You do not know the future.
Similarly, Muslims believe that we are going to heaven IF we stick firmly to the teachings of Islam and adhere to the laws set by God.
2nd reason:
We Muslims find it too arrogant to come and say "we are saved, we are going to heaven". We Muslims are humble people. We say "inshallah (by God's will) we are going to heaven"
For Jesus Christ says in
Luke 18:14
14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Conclusion
So Muslims try their very best to follow the law of God and pray that God showers his mercy on them in order for us to enter heaven. This is the teachings of the Old Testament as well. No one has to die for our sins, we are all responsible for our selves (Deuteronomy 24:16). All God wants is for us to try our best to be righteous and when we fail we ask for his forgiveness. No one is to be sacrificed for us. (Hosea 6:6, Jeremiah 7:31, Ezekiel 18:21,22,24, Isaiah 66:3, Psalms 51:16-19, Matthew 6:9-15)
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:09 am
Khalid Ibn Walid Conclusion So Muslims try their very best to follow the law of God and pray that God showers his mercy on them in order for us to enter heaven. This is the teachings of the Old Testament as well. No one has to die for our sins, we are all responsible for our selves (Deuteronomy 24:16). All God wants is for us to try our best to be righteous and when we fail we ask for his forgiveness. No one is to be sacrificed for us. (Hosea 6:6, Jeremiah 7:31, Ezekiel 18:21,22,24, Isaiah 66:3, Psalms 51:16-19, Matthew 6:9-15) Yeshua told us, however, that unless he sacrificed himself and left us, we wouldn't receive the Holy Spirit (which enables us to obey). The giving of the Spirit in order to obey was prophesied by Ezekiel: Quote: Ezekiel 36:25-27 (NIV) 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. John 16:7 (NIV) 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. John 14:26 (NIV) 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Do not Muslims negate the existence of the Holy Spirit, and some think of it as a Djinn? Yet, it's by his Holy Spirit that we're capable of obeying, it's what changes us, something Samuel agrees with: Quote: 1 Samuel 10:6 (NIV) 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. edit: as for one person not paying for another's sin, by law he wasn't obligated to do so, but he volunteered. It's not that another person can't take away the sins of another; another person doesn't have to do it, it's not their responsibility (ergo, why it's such a loving act). Otherwise, that makes Isaiah a false prophet. Just Isaiah 53 alone, it's talking about an innocent person coming to bear the transgressions for a whole multitude of transgressors.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:40 am
Well I am not sure if Animals go to heaven but it does say in the Bible that there are animals in heaven. My pastor says that Animals have no soul therefore they can not go to heaven!So I am very undecided on this topic! confused
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:55 pm
the better question, I think, is what defines a soul? Is a soul the only thing different from a living creature and a recently deceased, except for how it might have died of course?
personally, I think they have souls, but they didn't fall where Adam and Eve did. So if this is the case then yes, animals are in heaven for they are just doing as God told them to... survive and reproduce.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:50 pm
Khalid Ibn Walid Dramatica Angeliqua Khalid Ibn Walid Dramatica Angeliqua I guess we'll find out when we get there, huh? wink I would love to see some baby bunny rabbits there. emotion_kirakira Who said you're going there? Muslims don't have the assurance of salvation that only Jesus can provide. It's God's Free Gift to all who accept Him as their Savior to show how much He truly loves, is merciful, and cares about us. Jesus' death on the cross is sheer proof of God's overwhelming, indescribable, incomprehensible love for us. But if you don't have Jesus in your heart, you'd just be stuck with worrying whether or not you're good enough for your god's mercy to reach you. Since everyone is a poor sinner, and Islam says your god overlooks one's sins if their goodness weighs more on the scale, that means you have to be at least 51% good and 49% sinful to get into heaven. The God of Christianity is so pure and holy that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23). Sin is detestable in the sight of a holy God, so no measure of sin is allowed in heaven. This is why we need a Savior. Would your god die for you just as my God died for me? Does your god love you so much that he would die for your sake? What does Islam have that Jesus doesn't? Also, you seem to still hold a grudge against me, seeing as I'm the only person you quoted in this thread... rolleyes
Now if God put us here on earth and we are supposed to please him by actions, who sets the standards? Only God can. We Muslims believe that if we follow the law prescribed and put forward by the infinite God, we are therefore in a way following a law whose source is from the infinite and therefore in a way meeting the standards of the infinite God to please him. We believe that any other actions performed besides those set by God are useless. Now God does not need our actions. He does not benefit from them either. However, he loves that we obey him.
Christians say that we cannot follow the law perfectly. That is why us Muslims believe in a forgiving God. A lot of people have this misconception that forgiveness is contrary to justice. However, this is incorrect.
1st reason:
We are not sure if we are going to become corrupt people later on in the future and stop practicing our religion properly. We do not know the future.
This same concept is found in Christianity
1 Corinthians 15:2
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Notice the condition that Paul puts. He says, IF. Meaning it is possible for some one to leave the belief. How many people claimed to be Christians and now have left Christianity? How do you know you wont be one of them? You do not know the future.
Similarly, Muslims believe that we are going to heaven IF we stick firmly to the teachings of Islam and adhere to the laws set by God.
2nd reason:
We Muslims find it too arrogant to come and say "we are saved, we are going to heaven". We Muslims are humble people. We say "inshallah (by God's will) we are going to heaven"
For Jesus Christ says in
Luke 18:14
14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Conclusion
So Muslims try their very best to follow the law of God and pray that God showers his mercy on them in order for us to enter heaven. This is the teachings of the Old Testament as well. No one has to die for our sins, we are all responsible for our selves (Deuteronomy 24:16). All God wants is for us to try our best to be righteous and when we fail we ask for his forgiveness. No one is to be sacrificed for us. (Hosea 6:6, Jeremiah 7:31, Ezekiel 18:21,22,24, Isaiah 66:3, Psalms 51:16-19, Matthew 6:9-15)This is a rebuttal to a man named Matt Slick by Bassam Zawadi copied and pasted from http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/rebuttal_to_slick_1.htm. Your own words are written in various places to appear as if directed at me, and there are deleted segments. We are saved by faith alone, not by works. "However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5) "And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." (Romans 11:6) Definition of Grace: the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings. Quote: The Fulfillment of the Law17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20) In His famous speech, the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared He fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. When He spoke about the Law of the Prophets, He was clearly referring to the Old Testament and its validity, wanting to make sure His audience understood the Scriptures as inspired by God. This has nothing to do with obeying or disobeying the Law Moses gave to us, rather, it is the completion of the Law. We're not bound to the Ten Commandments as the official Law, rather, the Holy Spirit has been sent into our hearts so that we may walk in faith and obedience at a much deeper level than before. We should now seek to obey (but we sometimes mess up) the great moral and spiritual law which lies behind the Ten Commandments. Call it the Law of Christ, if you will, which fulfills the restrictive, too specific Law of Moses. What I mean is, for example, adultery is not the real problem but the lust that leads to it, and murder is not the real problem but the hatred that leads to it. Still, that doesn't mean the Old Testament should be ignored; it is as divinely inspired as the New Testament. The Old Covenant is dead (and was meant to be temporary), and we now have a New Covenant with Christ sealed with His blood (that will last forever), but the Hebrew Bible is important to us because it incessantly points to Jesus. When He spoke about commands/commandments, He was speaking in a broader sense than you realize. He was not discussing the whole shebang of the Old Covenant laws, but rather, defending the validity of the Old Testament and telling us we should do the same. Jesus' point is if we're willing to obey God and walk in faith towards divine instruction. Zawadi's argument is borrowed from Atheists. Also, Zawadi wrote: "We Muslims believe that if we follow the law prescribed and put forward by the infinite God, we are therefore in a way following a law whose source is from the infinite and therefore in a way meeting the standards of the infinite God to please him." If that's what Muslims believe, then they ominously sound just like the Pharisees and the Teachers of the Law, whom Jesus attacked, clearly saying their “righteousness” would be insufficient for them to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Zawadi wrote: "How many people claimed to be Christians and now have left Christianity?" There's a difference between true Christians and professing Christians. Unfortunately, the majority of people who label themselves Christians have a very weak faith and are easily curbed. Those people don't go to church [often], don't care to read the Bible, don't pray, may easily deny their faith out of embarrassment directly or indirectly, etc. They act very secular and are very difficult to point out amongst a crowd of nonbelievers. In contrast, a true Christian is obvious to locate in a crowd of nonbelievers (they stick out like a sore thumb), as their behavior and actions are more Christ-like. True Christians have a hunger for God's Word, always go to church, read their Bibles, pray to God, have fellowship with other believers, and seek to spread God's Word. Professing Christians, when threatened by death, will denounce Christ in order to save their own lives. True Christians will die for the Lord, Who died for them. Jesus said, "Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it," (Matthew 10:39) meaning that those who reject Him to stay alive on earth will eternally lose their life in the Lake of Fire. Whoever loses their temporary life on earth will live forever with Him in the Kingdom of God. A person, who doubts whether he or she is a professing Christian, would want to discuss the matter with God. That person should want and strive to get closer to God, and he or she should pray for Him to strengthen their faith. God loves it when people pray that; He absolutely beams and will gladly grant that request, for it is He that gives them those desires. I never specifically said I was saved in my last post, nor boasted about it, but Jesus did promise me salvation if only I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and took up my cross to follow Him...even though I make mistakes, mess up all the time, do everything wrong, and can't help not sinning. I'm still a sinner trying my hardest and seeking forgiveness, because I'm not perfect and often veer off the path God intends me to go. And the most spiritual thing I can think of is, "Oops." When I say "I am saved and that I am going to heaven," I am stating it with assurance and certainty, not arrogance. I know I have found salvation in Jesus Christ because He paid the price for me. I am saved, yes, but this Gift is something I don't deserve. God sent His Son to save us unworthy sinners, despite the fact we don't deserve this overwhelming love and mercy. This is called "grace." Admittedly, when I have my special moments with God and I think about how undeserving I am of this new kind of love, I burst into tears and start babbling to God how grateful I am. It's a very emotional concept and shows God never gives up on us and believes we are worth it. Through Jesus' death, as dirty sinners we have hope. So am I saved? Yes. Do I deserve to go to heaven? No. I've seen plenty examples of arrogance coming from you, including the PM's you sent me, bragging about supposedly converting some Christians. Rather, instead of relishing in your own achievements, shouldn't the glory go to your god instead of honoring yourself? That's not implying humbleness. And I haven't forgotten our previous conversations and your insults. You copy and paste a lot, so I hardly get a glimpse of your own words, but when you do write your own words you reveal your true colors.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:22 am
The Role of the Holy Spirit in Islam:
There are two roles that the Holy Spirit is responsible for according to Islam:
1- It creates our "spirits." Allah Almighty uses it to blow into our mothers' wombs our human-spirits. That is why abortion is prohibited in Islam, because the fetus or foetus does have spirit (life) and it is a human being. It's not just a little piece of unliving flesh:
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:9)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 38:72)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 15:29)"
"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples. (The Noble Quran, 21:91)"
"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). (The Noble Quran, 66:12)"
It is used to provide Divine Guidance to the Believers, those whom Allah Almighty Loves and Favors. It's not just the Holy Spirit that gives Guidance. Angels too give it:
"Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the Spirit (of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,- (The Noble Quran, 40:15)"
"Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (The Noble Quran, 16:102)"
"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day, loving those who resist God and His Apostle, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a Spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). God will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of God. Truly it is the Party of God that will achieve Felicity. (The Noble Quran, 58:22)"
"Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' (The Noble Quran, 5:110)"
The Bible is filled with figurative speech. The Holy Spirit mentioned above is a creation from GOD Almighty. It's purpose is to create our spirits as mentioned in Psalm 104:30. Another purpose for the Holy Spirit is to Guide the Believers:
1 Samuel 18:10 "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand..." GOD Almighty has an evil spirit? Obviously not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.
1 Samuel 19:9 "But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!
1 Kings 22:22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked. " 'I will go out and be a LYING spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
1 Kings 22:23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
2 Chronicles 18:21 " 'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
Numbers 24:2 "When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him"
Judges 3:10 "The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into
the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him."
Judges 6:34 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him."
Judges 11:29 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites."
Judges 14:6 "The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told
neither his father nor his mother what he had done."
Judges 14:19 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. He went down to Ashkelon, struck down thirty of their men, stripped them of their belongings and gave their clothes to those who had explained the riddle. Burning with anger, he went up to his father's house."
Judges 15:14 "As he approached Lehi, the Philistines came toward him shouting. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. The ropes on his arms became like charred flax, and the bindings dropped from his hands."
1 Samuel 10:6 "The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person."
1 Samuel 10:10 "When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying."
1 Samuel 11:6 "When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger."
1 Samuel 16:13 "So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in power. Samuel then went to Ramah."
Luke 1:35 "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you (Mary), and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."
Luke 2:25 "Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him."
The Holy Spirit is a Creation of GOD Almighty and it is under Him just like the Angels according to the Noble Quran:
Allah Almighty Said:
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. (The Noble Quran, 78:3 cool "
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by God's permission, on every errand: (The Noble Quran, 97:4)"
"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
These Noble Verse are the Ultimate knock out to the polytheist trinitarian pagans who are trying, through their absurd writings, to prove that the Holy Spirit in the Noble Quran is the other part of Allah Almighty; that he is at least a dual GOD if not a triune one.
As you clearly see from these Noble Verses and the ones above in the beginning of the article, trinity and plurality of GOD Almighty is blasphemy!
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:45 am
Khalid Ibn Walid Dramatica Angeliqua Khalid Ibn Walid Dramatica Angeliqua I guess we'll find out when we get there, huh? wink I would love to see some baby bunny rabbits there. emotion_kirakira Who said you're going there? Muslims don't have the assurance of salvation that only Jesus can provide. It's God's Free Gift to all who accept Him as their Savior to show how much He truly loves, is merciful, and cares about us. Jesus' death on the cross is sheer proof of God's overwhelming, indescribable, incomprehensible love for us. But if you don't have Jesus in your heart, you'd just be stuck with worrying whether or not you're good enough for your god's mercy to reach you. Since everyone is a poor sinner, and Islam says your god overlooks one's sins if their goodness weighs more on the scale, that means you have to be at least 51% good and 49% sinful to get into heaven. The God of Christianity is so pure and holy that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23). Sin is detestable in the sight of a holy God, so no measure of sin is allowed in heaven. This is why we need a Savior. Would your god die for you just as my God died for me? Does your god love you so much that he would die for your sake? What does Islam have that Jesus doesn't? Also, you seem to still hold a grudge against me, seeing as I'm the only person you quoted in this thread... rolleyes
Now if God put us here on earth and we are supposed to please him by actions, who sets the standards? Only God can. We Muslims believe that if we follow the law prescribed and put forward by the infinite God, we are therefore in a way following a law whose source is from the infinite and therefore in a way meeting the standards of the infinite God to please him. We believe that any other actions performed besides those set by God are useless. Now God does not need our actions. He does not benefit from them either. However, he loves that we obey him.
Christians say that we cannot follow the law perfectly. That is why us Muslims believe in a forgiving God. A lot of people have this misconception that forgiveness is contrary to justice. However, this is incorrect.
1st reason:
We are not sure if we are going to become corrupt people later on in the future and stop practicing our religion properly. We do not know the future.
This same concept is found in Christianity
1 Corinthians 15:2
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Notice the condition that Paul puts. He says, IF. Meaning it is possible for some one to leave the belief. How many people claimed to be Christians and now have left Christianity? How do you know you wont be one of them? You do not know the future.
Similarly, Muslims believe that we are going to heaven IF we stick firmly to the teachings of Islam and adhere to the laws set by God.
2nd reason:
We Muslims find it too arrogant to come and say "we are saved, we are going to heaven". We Muslims are humble people. We say "inshallah (by God's will) we are going to heaven"
For Jesus Christ says in
Luke 18:14
14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Conclusion
So Muslims try their very best to follow the law of God and pray that God showers his mercy on them in order for us to enter heaven. This is the teachings of the Old Testament as well. No one has to die for our sins, we are all responsible for our selves (Deuteronomy 24:16). All God wants is for us to try our best to be righteous and when we fail we ask for his forgiveness. No one is to be sacrificed for us. (Hosea 6:6, Jeremiah 7:31, Ezekiel 18:21,22,24, Isaiah 66:3, Psalms 51:16-19, Matthew 6:9-15)I get where both of you are coming from, but I couldn't help but look at this in a certain light. I know quite a few Muslims who make a constant, fervent effort to please and obey God, who are often condemned for not being Christian simultaneously. What bothers me about that, is that, as a Christian, what is so offensive about someone working to please God, aside from the exclusive point about Jesus and salvation. Are these people so hung up on Jesus that God alone no longer matters? No matter how important Jesus is, God is the greater of the two, and I just can't make sense of how what Jesus demands weighs more than what pleases God. I know Christianity puts them on the same plate, but still. Now I also know quite a few Christians who boast how they are saved from sin, but continue to partake in sin, convinced that as long as they pray for forgiveness and accept Christ, that it is done. Yet many use this a crutch, and continue to commit the same sins repeatedly, completely absorbed in the forgiveness of Jesus. This has many leading very sinful lives, because of their belief that Jesus washes it all away. I understand the directive of Christianity, but it is often abused for its virtuous nature. Now I know there are Muslims that do abuse their faith as well. I'm not excluding this offense to Christians by any means. I'm just saying, one who worships God cannot say another who worships God is wrong for not putting someone other than God before God. No matter your version of scripture. If you really disagree with it that much, then just accept that you have your faith, and they have theirs. The rest is between them and God.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:49 am
Concerning the OP, seperate from my other post, I have no idea. I don't see why animals would be there, but I don't objectively know why they would not be there.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:13 pm
"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (The Noble Quran, 3:199)"
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)"
"Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (The Noble Quran, 2:62)"
"Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (The Noble Quran, 2:112)"
"Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and establish regular prayers and regular charity, will have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (The Noble Quran, 2:277)"
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