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[Q] Bethany Wyatt /Sailor Canopus, DMC of Longevity(CRITS) Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2

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Sunshine Alouette

Eternal Senshi

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:31 pm


Hi, Gingi! You’ve been questing this for a while now, so let’s see about getting it ready for acceptance! This ended up being much longer than I thought it would, but I really wanted to help and make sure you’re getting the most out of your character!

First and foremost, you are more than welcome to quest for a character who is a nun (or who aspires to be a nun)! However, the way you have set her up in this quest is actually a bit dated and at points incorrect! Some of the issues stem from some terminology that needs to be worked out! Admittedly, I had to do a bit of research on this myself, but hopefully some of this will prove helpful!

The terms “Nun” and “Sister” are usually used interchangeably in society, but they actually refer to two different things! Traditional Nuns (cloistered Nuns) are women who retreat from the world to live lives of prayer and contemplation in a convent or monastery. These women are much more closed off from society. Visitation is limited and there is typically much less interaction with the rest of the world than there would be for a Sister. Religious/Catholic Sisters, on the other hand, remain in the world and can have a variety of occupations. They can be teachers, nurses, social workers, lawyers, artists, scientists, political activists, etc. Therefore, Sisters continue to be involved in society in many ways. Nuns take perpetual solemn vows, while Sisters take perpetual simple vows, and I have honestly not been able to find a very good explanation as to what the difference is (although Sisters can inherit property while a Nun cannot), but they do both take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Also, a lot of religious communities these days want applicants who at least have a bachelor’s degree before taking their vows, so that’s something to keep in mind as well!

Right now you have Bethany written very much like a traditional cloistered Nun, which I think would be unrealistic as it would make it nigh impossible for her to be involved in a powered life (as she would have to remain in the convent and would likely have no chance for any direct involvement/contact), nor would she have much interaction with other civilian characters were she to be cloistered. For those reasons if nothing else, I think having her be a Sister would work out best for you!

You can read more about Nuns and Sisters and what it takes to become one at the following links:

http://anunslife.org/resources/sister-or-nun/

http://people.howstuffworks.com/nun.htm

If you decide to go the Sister route then there are a couple of other points I’d like to make before getting into the meat of the profile! The first is a very minor thing (and perhaps even nit-picky), but as a Sister I would see no reason as to why she would not be able to eat chocolate! Yes, Sisters do follow certain guidelines as to what they can and can’t eat during certain days of the week or times of the year, but so long as what they’re eating doesn’t cross the line into “extravagance,” then their day-to-day diets are usually no different than yours and mine (I’m pretty sure chocolate is fair game, as I’ve found nothing that says otherwise)! At the same time, Beth would probably follow certain abstinence rules when it comes to food, such as not eating meat on Wednesdays and Fridays, and having no sugar, dairy, or eggs during Lent (at which point chocolate may be out).

The second point I want to make is that as a Sister she would almost certainly not wear a full Nun’s habit. Full Nuns might wear the more traditional garb we tend to imagine, but Sisters these days are more likely to be seen in suits or modest skirts and blouses! Some may wear the cloth headdress, though I’ve seen many who do not!

Civilian:

Bearing all this in mind, there are definitely areas within her profile that could probably use a little updating! There are also certain aspects of it that I think might become limiting in regards to RP that you might want to consider substituting for something that could make her a more open character in regards to interaction outside of St. Mag’s!

Her “Reading” and “Counseling” hobbies seem to work well enough (as a part of St. Mag’s administrative system I can certainly see “Counseling” being a viable option), though you could always extend her counseling further into the community and perhaps even into the other schools as well! I do think you should remove the part you’ve stricken out about the trashy romance novels in “Reading.” As Guine said in her crits above, "I'll just ask for forgiveness" isn’t true repentance. In Catholicism, doing something you know is wrong is considered a sin, and I can’t imagine a Sister doing something purposefully like that. It seems like you intended to remove it anyway? So it’s probably best to just go ahead and do that so as not to confuse it with the rest of the profile! Mysteries and fantasies should be okay so long as the content is appropriate! Harry Potter is actually also a-okay as far as I’m aware! Most of the criticism of Harry Potter has come from evangelical Protestants, not Catholics (that isn’t to say there haven’t been Catholics to criticize it or that the Vatican has been wholly accepting of it—the Church itself has no official position on the books, as far as I’ve been able to find—but in recent years especially there has been a bit of a more positive attitude toward the series, its depiction of good vs. evil, and Harry’s sense of morality; the US Conference of Catholic Bishops even rated each film as having no content that was morally offensive).

Overall, with her hobbies I think you might be restricting yourself unnecessarily by deferring to the more traditional image of a cloistered Nun which, in this setting, she would not be. There is so much more that she can take part in! Religious Sisters can go to the movies, they can go to ball games and athletic matches, and they can participate in a wide variety of events within the community! Any sort of community involvement or an outreach program could work well here and might be something you’d want to consider for her! In Destiny City especially, I’m sure there are plenty of people who could use a little extra help! She can certainly enjoy reading, counseling, and sewing, but those can be rather solitary activities and might not open many doors for interaction with anyone other than St. Mag’s students. I would definitely suggest considering other hobbies that would also see Beth interacting with people outside of the school!

As for her personality… her virtues are okay but, again, they read more like an old-fashioned, cloistered Nun, and here you may be restricting yourself again. Don’t be afraid to get fun with her! She can be spunky! She can have a sense of humor! A broad range of women—young or old, quiet or boisterous, cheerful or severe—decide to live the life of a Sister in an effort to serve God and work to better their communities and the world around them! They aren’t all the patient, motherly sort! There are a lot of super cool, feminist Nuns/Sisters out there, too! In fact, there has recently been some controversy with the Vatican conducting a doctrinal assessment of American nuns. You can read about that controversy on the Leadership Conference of Women Religious Wikipedia page (yeah, yeah, it’s Wikipedia, but I did a little checking and the information seems legit). You can also read about a recent protest conducted by Nuns/Sisters over a federal budget proposal here and here. Not all Sisters are like this, of course, but I thought these were good examples or ideas of what else can realistically be done with this sort of character! (Also, in just the last month, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert both did a segment and an interview on this issue. In Colbert’s interview there’s even a brief comment about the clothes a Sister wears and why that has changed!)

I do see another potential problem in Beth’s flaws. I can definitely see how her “nurturing” virtue can blend into her “overbearing” flaw, though “overly-cautious” makes her seem rather meek while “judgmental” seems to be in conflict with the rest of her personality as you have it written out, especially with “overly-cautious.” It seems to me that in being overly-cautious and therefore incapable of making any progress at times that she wouldn’t want to get into some of the issues she might pass judgment on. Not only that, but being a woman of faith (whether in a general sense or as a Sister) does not necessarily mean that a person is judgmental. There are many passages in the Bible that caution against passing judgment! If Beth is serious about her religious calling then I imagine this would be something she would strive not to do!

Powered:

The first thing I want to point out here is that DMC Senshi do have specific guidelines when it comes to their fuku. Any of our shop artists will be able to go into more detail about this with you once you’ve won Nuxui if you intend to keep her as a DMC quest, but do keep in mind that there are certain elements of the sketch you’ve provided (the hood/lack of a collar, for example) which may not make the cut! I’m not saying to nix anything right now, just bear that in mind for the future!

As for her attacks, for the most part they look fine, though I would suggest removing the dice-roll component, as whether or not an attack is dodged or broken is something I believe should be left for the players to decide between themselves! You could probably raise the time limits a bit, especially in her regular attack, as five seconds seems rather minimal to me. You can see about up-ing the time there to 15 to 20 seconds. It’s only slowing them down, not immobilizing them, so this seems reasonable to me. With the super attack slowing them down even more than that, I’ll suggest setting the time limit at 15 seconds. Since her Eternal attack completely immobilizes someone, you definitely don’t want it lasting too long, as that would be unfair. I’d say 15 seconds should work there as well!

The last thing I want to discuss is her alignment with Chaos. I’m having a bit of trouble understanding why Bethany being a Sister would lead her to become a follower of Chaos. There are, of course, characters with many differing personalities who possess a wide range of beliefs in both factions, but on a whole we’ve seen how ruthless and calculating (and at times blood-thirsty, in the case of certain characters) Chaos can be (although Order is not completely innocent here either, obviously). She would be working alongside many of these people. She would be exposing herself to things that her faith considers to be a grave sin, regardless of what faction she ended up in. I’m just having a hard time seeing how she would justify some of the things that have happened via her faith, or how she would be able to reconcile the two, and I’m very curious as to how you intend to play this out! What specifically makes her suited for Chaos? What would she bring to that faction? How would being an agent of Chaos affect her personally?

I hope this helps a bit! If you have any questions, definitely don’t hesitate to ask!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:24 pm


Sunshine Alouette


Thank you so much for the crit! I'm so sorry it took me so long to get to replying to it, but here it is. I've decided to drop the Nun/Sister aspect as it was too restricting and in retrospect, she wouldn't have been as fun to play as at all. I looked over everything you mentioned and made some changes, such as tweaking the attacks, working with the flaws and virtues, as well as fixing around the hobbies (I definitely took into consideration about her extending her counseling and volunteering to assist outside of St. Mag's).

Lastly, not sure where to post this in the quest, but as for why I chose Chaos align for her? Though she is no longer a nun, I still want to play her off as a character of faith, though perhaps have that faith placed in the Dark Mirror Court and Princess Ares, where she truly believes that she's serving the right side. I want her to believe that Princess Ares is the true leader, and that the White Moon Court, being without one single leader, is therefor, to her, chaotic, whereas Princess Ares' solidified rule of the DMC is 'order' to her. In a way, as cliche and outdated as it may seem, Frollo from 'Hunchback of Notre Dame' comes to mind, where she's aligning herself with chaos but TRULY believes that she's doing the right thing.

How would I be able to implement her into the quest? Would that work?

ChibiGingi

Dapper Grabber


Sunshine Alouette

Eternal Senshi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:11 pm


You are very welcome!

If you’d like to switch her from a nun to simply a person of faith, then that is perfectly fine. Either way would be interesting, though you do definitely want to make sure you’re able to get some fun out of your character!

Let’s give Beth a look again to see how she works with the changes you’ve made!

THE CIVILIAN

I’m still seeing a bit of her former nun-life written into her “reading” hobby, which I don’t think you intended to leave in! At sixteen I believe she’s a bit too young to have any sort of nun training, though as a student at St. Mags she would certainly have opportunities to help out around the seminary.

With her “counseling” hobby, I just want to make sure it remains age-appropriate! I’m sure you don’t mean for her to be doing any official counseling what with her still being a student, but is she part of any sort of clubs or groups that might delve into this area?

There are just a couple of tweaks that need to be made in her virtues and flaws!

First and foremost, she has three virtues but only two flaws! She’ll need one more flaw in order to have a balanced profile/personality! I’m not sure if you had anything else in mind, but you did well in showing how her “patient” and “nurturing” virtues blend into her “overly-cautious” and “overbearing” flaws, so you might want to look into her “team player” virtue and try to develop something off of that! She gets on well with others, enjoys helping/nurturing, but what about when she’s on her own? Is she a better team player than she is when she goes solo? Does she take better care of others than herself? Could that potentially be a danger to herself? What about this could rub people the wrong way?

The last thing I want to point out here is very minor. In “team-player” you still have that she lives in a convent, when she would be living locally, or in the dorms at St. Mags if anything!

THE SENSHI

First things first, I made a brief note of this last time but I wanted to make sure you’ve been made aware of the specific requirements for a DMC senshi’s fuku so that when it comes time to working with an artist there won’t be any surprises! The requirements are as follows:

Quote:
Dark Mirror Senshi
Senshi:

-Must have black detached bodice
-Must have long/short black gloves + metallic arm bands, design up to you
-Must have a collar with a single black line
-Must have overlay, prefer short overlays at this stage
-Must have black choker with ribbons (can be short at senshi stage)
-Must have black buttbow, tails can be short


So the hood Nuxui has in her ref probably isn’t going to work since she will need to have a specific type of bodice/collar combination, though some of the other elements you have there could certainly be edited to work with what’s required!

Her attacks look good, I just want to make sure you’re getting enough use out of them! Since her opponents are getting the benefit of defense and are only being slowed in movement instead of paralyzed (at least initially), you could get away with having her attack last a liiiiittle longer! I suggested 15-20 seconds last time, but in looking over it again I’d say 25 seconds at first stage should be good if you'd like to extend it, but since they are being slowed even more at subsequent stages, it’s probably a good idea to make the attacks last over less time at each stage (so 20 at Super stage, and I’d say keep it at 15 in Eternal, since that’s complete immobilization)!

Lastly, I can definitely see what you’re going for in having her chaos-aligned, and I can certainly see her fitting in there based on those reasons! Thank you!

Again, let me know if you need any help or have any more questions!

ChibiGingi
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:52 pm


Sunshine Alouette
THE CIVILIAN

I’m still seeing a bit of her former nun-life written into her “reading” hobby, which I don’t think you intended to leave in! At sixteen I believe she’s a bit too young to have any sort of nun training, though as a student at St. Mags she would certainly have opportunities to help out around the seminary.

With her “counseling” hobby, I just want to make sure it remains age-appropriate! I’m sure you don’t mean for her to be doing any official counseling what with her still being a student, but is she part of any sort of clubs or groups that might delve into this area?


In all honesty, I completely forgot to amend all of those changes. It was pretty late at night when I revised it and completely overlooked them, so thanks for pointing it out!

Quote:
There are just a couple of tweaks that need to be made in her virtues and flaws!

First and foremost, she has three virtues but only two flaws! She’ll need one more flaw in order to have a balanced profile/personality! I’m not sure if you had anything else in mind, but you did well in showing how her “patient” and “nurturing” virtues blend into her “overly-cautious” and “overbearing” flaws, so you might want to look into her “team player” virtue and try to develop something off of that! She gets on well with others, enjoys helping/nurturing, but what about when she’s on her own? Is she a better team player than she is when she goes solo? Does she take better care of others than herself? Could that potentially be a danger to herself? What about this could rub people the wrong way?


Got rid of "Judgmental" and couldn't think of anything to replace it with, but you made a good suggestion. How does the final flaw work now, with her being Self Sacrificing? Does it seem too similar to her Overbearing flaw, does it fit well with being the opposite of "Team Player"?

Quote:
The last thing I want to point out here is very minor. In “team-player” you still have that she lives in a convent, when she would be living locally, or in the dorms at St. Mags if anything!


Once again, silly me forgetting to omit all of those sections. XD Hopefully by removing that aspect, it'll solve some of the core issues with the Team Player trait.

Quote:
THE SENSHI

First things first, I made a brief note of this last time but I wanted to make sure you’ve been made aware of the specific requirements for a DMC senshi’s fuku so that when it comes time to working with an artist there won’t be any surprises! The requirements are as follows:

Quote:
Dark Mirror Senshi
Senshi:

-Must have black detached bodice
-Must have long/short black gloves + metallic arm bands, design up to you
-Must have a collar with a single black line
-Must have overlay, prefer short overlays at this stage
-Must have black choker with ribbons (can be short at senshi stage)
-Must have black buttbow, tails can be short


So the hood Nuxui has in her ref probably isn’t going to work since she will need to have a specific type of bodice/collar combination, though some of the other elements you have there could certainly be edited to work with what’s required!


Thanks, I'll make some changes. In all honesty, I might leave it up to the artist choice with a few details, because I'd be happy with just about anything. The artists here are fantastic and I trust their judgement, and I'm genuinely interested into seeing what they'd come up with.

Quote:
Her attacks look good, I just want to make sure you’re getting enough use out of them! Since her opponents are getting the benefit of defense and are only being slowed in movement instead of paralyzed (at least initially), you could get away with having her attack last a liiiiittle longer! I suggested 15-20 seconds last time, but in looking over it again I’d say 25 seconds at first stage should be good if you'd like to extend it, but since they are being slowed even more at subsequent stages, it’s probably a good idea to make the attacks last over less time at each stage (so 20 at Super stage, and I’d say keep it at 15 in Eternal, since that’s complete immobilization)!


Alright, so I changed it from Stage 1 = 25 seconds, Stage 2 = 20 seconds, and Stage 3 = 15 seconds. If there's anything else, let me know!

Quote:
Lastly, I can definitely see what you’re going for in having her chaos-aligned, and I can certainly see her fitting in there based on those reasons! Thank you!


And thank you for all the helpful critiques! Let me know if I need to alter/edit anymore... I THINK I got all of the nun bits taken out. XD

ChibiGingi

Dapper Grabber


Sunshine Alouette

Eternal Senshi

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:28 am


ChibiGingi


I think a “self-sacrificing” flaw will work very well for Beth with how you have her personality written out, but at the moment it’s not quite reading like a complete flaw! With flaws we like to see things that would bug/annoy/anger other characters, something that’ll get a negative response. Right now “self-sacrificing” certainly works as a detriment to her, but how might it affect others in a less positive way? What sort of reactions has she gotten from people before when they’ve born witness to this trait of hers? Does it always work out positively for them?

You are definitely welcome to leave fuku elements up to the artists! They’re all well aware of the requirements, I just wanted to go ahead and let you know so there aren’t any surprises later on!

Everything else is looking good! Hobbies, attacks… the last little nun bit I’m still seeing is in her “team-player” virtue where it says she lives in a convent, which I think you meant to fix too, but it’s an easy thing to miss! XD

So just tweak “self-sacrificing” a little bit more to show how it can be an annoying habit/detriment to others/receive a negative reaction from people, and this should be ready for a trial stamp!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:36 am


Once again, a million thanks! I've tweaked around the Self-Sacrificing flaw to include how it negatively affects others, as well as finally removed that last bit of 'nun' in her original design. Let me know what I need to do- thank you for being extremely helpful!

Sunshine Alouette

ChibiGingi

Dapper Grabber


Sunshine Alouette

Eternal Senshi

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:35 am


ChibiGingi


You are so welcome! <3 Everything is looking good now, so you're ready for a trial stamp~! :3

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:05 am


The character itself looks great! She sounds interesting and her attacks are well fitted to the sphere.

However I'm having a problem finding any astrological item with the name Nuxui? I clicked the link you offered and didn't find the word anywhere on that page. So you're either going to need to find a new name for her or provide me with a page documenting the astrological body.

On a similar note, Tsui being accepted as one of the eastern zodiac/constellations was a fluke and accident by the staff. The Chinese zodiac and constellations were supposed to be on hold in case we ever wanted it for a group (much like the regular Zodiacs!) This doesn't have any effect on Tsui of course, but it means for this character when looking for you're new name you're going to need to look someplace else for inspiration.

Iris_virus

Dedicated Sweetheart

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ChibiGingi

Dapper Grabber

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:54 am


Iris_virus
The character itself looks great! She sounds interesting and her attacks are well fitted to the sphere.

However I'm having a problem finding any astrological item with the name Nuxui? I clicked the link you offered and didn't find the word anywhere on that page. So you're either going to need to find a new name for her or provide me with a page documenting the astrological body.

On a similar note, Tsui being accepted as one of the eastern zodiac/constellations was a fluke and accident by the staff. The Chinese zodiac and constellations were supposed to be on hold in case we ever wanted it for a group (much like the regular Zodiacs!) This doesn't have any effect on Tsui of course, but it means for this character when looking for you're new name you're going to need to look someplace else for inspiration.


My apologies on Tsui... I'm hoping I didn't screw things over with the meta game on that one. ._. *goes to hide in a corner*

Anyway, did some research and decided to turn her into Canopus, Senshi of Longevity, based off of the Shou star (also better known as Canopus. Tortoise are usually revered as an animal of longevity, and I figure the switch should not be so rough. Let me know if I need to change the names of the attacks/some aspects of the attacks with the new change.

Edit: Also, got this link to connect the Shou star with Canopus. Pages 3 and 4.

I swear I don't mean to cause such trouble.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:48 am


Oh you didn't cause any trouble at all dear, don't worry about it at all! heart I was just trying to explain why future character couldn't go under those names.

In anycase, Canopus is a perfectly fine name! And either sphere will work perfectly fine Turtles or Longevity, so you should feel free to stay with what you had originally or leave it as what you changed it to.

Just confirm for me which you want and I'll stamp this right up. Thank you :3

Iris_virus

Dedicated Sweetheart

15,425 Points
  • Object of Affection 150
  • Little Bunny Foo Foo 100
  • Somebody Likes You 100

ChibiGingi

Dapper Grabber

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:26 pm


Iris_virus


Let's stick with Longevity. That case, if someone else wishes to try Turtles or if there is need for the (Black) Tortoise for meta, it can remain open. ^_^
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