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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:25 pm
And I watched the video again. And it made me realize one of the most problematic... problems with the game: The PLOT! Why the ******** are we doing what we are doing in the game? Why do we agree to do half the stuff we do? Why should our character care, much less the player?If you ask any random person about the plot of zOMG!, most will say it just outright has none. It's a bunch of seemingly unconnected events. And it's even worse when you finally get to the right answer: We are apparently asked to help the barton guards, and next thing you know we're an errand boy to a bunch of completely random people! Leon had probably forgotten all about you until a huge load of smoke started coming from the ocean, all the water spouts in the region temporarily died and you were there to explain the tale and be called a Hero. See, but it's not like this HAS to be plotless... Part of the reason why Kin is such an awesome dude is because he offers you a word of goodbye before sending you off to help a friend of his. While you are probably starting to notice a pattern here, at least this guy respects you and says he'd love working with you again to figure out more about the animated. That's what we NEED! That's what we need to make the game have us aware it should focus on. Figure out the animated. There's only three times in the game when the animated sound weird and awkward to the player: 1) Barton Town/Village greens 2) Zen Gardens 3) The very ending The entire ******** rest of thee game acts as if the animated were just a minor inconvenience, and you're a freaking pest service. You got to wonder how the GIB can even work with paper clips trying to stab their eyes, much less worry with a bunch of aliens SPECIFICALLY. The most interesting part of the plot, where do animated come from and the quest to figure it out, is downplay to less interesting (but pressing) matters such as "What happened to this guy who has been diving for hours and why doesn't his a*****e of a friend and whiny b***h of a daughter care?" (In fact, Otami's plot, period. WHO THE ********? WHY THE ********? ******** OTAMI!) So here's what you need to do with the plot on the beginning of the game to give it all significance: 1) Frank You need to feel that frank is both a very mysterious person and you need to feel betrayed by him later on in the game. He needs a bigger role in the tutorial, and if the sewers are ever recycled, he has to be the one accompanying you throughout the tutorial. You need to bond with this guy. Feel like you can trust him. Frank has to be the person who GIVES YOU YOUR FIRST RING.Also do you see that thing with you saving Leon from the animated? <******** THAT! We're doing it in REVERSE! Make Frank save US!Just think of how much more impact that would make! Frank used the rings to save us. We are shown the capabilities of rings: They can be used as tools to HELP PEOPLEAnd you'll want to help people. You were being mauled to death, confused, unaware of what to do, and you got helped. And holy ********, he even gave you a ring! YOU CAN DO IT TOO! You know the feeling, you'll probably want to retribute it better. 2) You We need to be told, early on, that the animated are completely unnatural to gaians and that they're a NEW EVIL THREAT. Their EVIL is important to establish that they're bad, you're good, and your task will be going against them. The character himself doesn't need to agree they are evil, we can give choices that leave the question open. We just need to be aware that gaia would probably be better without them as everything became worse with their appearence, and that is our motivation - THAT IS OUR PLOT!We need to promise, in a very distinct way that the player can identify as being the whole point of zOMG! that we'll use rings to achieve two things: >We'll use the rings to help others >We'll find out the source of the animated and end their existence This way, the plot makes much more sense. We got the rings and we're on a self righteous quest to use them the way we believe they should be used. The way we were taught to use them in a moment of need. If the player acknowledges this they won't wonder why the hell are they doing what they are. zOMG! while still having the same plot, has a little amount of SENSE injected into it. 3) After Shallow Seas And it culminates in a much more dramatic way. All that helping we've been doing, all that getting stronger, all we found out about the animated did the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we wanted to do. All we did was make the animated even more prevalent in gaia. It's just that. We were betrayed, we were mere pawns in this game... We'll start questioning EVERYTHING so far. The hints along the way fall down harder at this point. Would it have been best to leave things be? Is gaia truly better without the animated? Were they even as evil as we were told so much by frank early on, or are they just either acting wildly because of their early development or being controlled by Labtech X? Things spiral down after going to SS. But at least we found out the source of animation. And people we helped trust us now and are depending on us to fix this unsolvable mess. Kin is there and willing to take you on that promised quest to rid the animated. The people who sent you on errands are there to congratulate you, showing you did make a difference. Maybe you didn't solve everything, but you have proof of progress, and you're ready to take the next step. And these next steps feel more important as well. Giving the animated importance early on will make further animated related plots more dramatic as well. And when allied animated NPC's are introduced, proof that the animated can develop into a new Gaian Race in their own right, then the road of possibilities is more exciting.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:08 am
DrQuint 1) Frank You need to feel that frank is both a very mysterious person and you need to feel betrayed by him later on in the game. He needs a bigger role in the tutorial, and if the sewers are ever recycled, he has to be the one accompanying you throughout the tutorial. You need to bond with this guy. Feel like you can trust him. Frank has to be the person who GIVES YOU YOUR FIRST RING.Also do you see that thing with you saving Leon from the animated? <******** THAT! We're doing it in REVERSE! Make Frank save US!Just think of how much more impact that would make! Frank used the rings to save us. We are shown the capabilities of rings: They can be used as tools to HELP PEOPLEAnd you'll want to help people. You were being mauled to death, confused, unaware of what to do, and you got helped. And holy ********, he even gave you a ring! YOU CAN DO IT TOO! You know the feeling, you'll probably want to retribute it better.
I just had flashbacks, to watching Sephiroth revive my worthless corpse ad nauseum, between effortlessly slaughtering the same waves of enemies that were routinely annihilating me. Yeah, this is certainly one way to make a player feel indebted to a character - as well as making you more than a little nervous, when you realise they're not on your side any longer. sweatdrop
Aside from that, it also tends to produce an irrational fear of those same enemies, if you encounter them later. Or maybe that's just me. redface
What I would do with this, though: have it start with him 'saving' you, proceed to him granting you a ring, and let him teach you to Crew - after the initial attack ring, have the tutorial grant a healing ring, and a buff (as it originally did), and let Frank stress the importance of using them. Have him set to stop attacking (and call for help) when his Health falls too low, or his buffs fall off - and then put the final enemy of the tutorial as one that requires Frank's help (so he can tank and deal damage, since he's obviously higher-level than you). Frank will keep Defib'ing you when you're unsuccessful, though, so you'd get all the chances you need (though at that point, I'd hope they'd have gotten the gist).
Also, make sure he explains why he doesn't give you any of his own Rings - they're soulbound, after all. wink
Quote: 2) You We need to be told, early on, that the animated are completely unnatural to gaians and that they're a NEW EVIL THREAT. Their EVIL is important to establish that they're bad, you're good, and your task will be going against them. The character himself doesn't need to agree they are evil, we can give choices that leave the question open. We just need to be aware that gaia would probably be better without them as everything became worse with their appearence, and that is our motivation - THAT IS OUR PLOT!We need to promise, in a very distinct way that the player can identify as being the whole point of zOMG! that we'll use rings to achieve two things: >We'll use the rings to help others >We'll find out the source of the animated and end their existence This way, the plot makes much more sense. We got the rings and we're on a self righteous quest to use them the way we believe they should be used. The way we were taught to use them in a moment of need. If the player acknowledges this they won't wonder why the hell are they doing what they are. zOMG! while still having the same plot, has a little amount of SENSE injected into it.
More propaganda, indeed! Kids these days don't realise how much they're supposed to hate the Animated, even if they don't know why! scream
And again, Frank would be the perfect person to encourage players that fighting the Animated is so important - he can be genuinely emphatic about it, even if he is a little vague about his reasonings. But this is the guy who saved you from them, after all - who taught you how to defend yourself, how to protect and others. Obviously you can trust him.
From there, all it takes is a little reconfirmation from Leon (and the rest of the Regulars), to make it feel very natural, indeed. I mean, after the way they attacked you, and all of the other innocents that the Regulars have had to protect - these things must be evil, right? (Leon's already been established as being overly suspicious of the Animated so far - particularly as far as their intentions toward Barton are concerned - so it's entirely within character for him to agree with such a conclusion, too. However, the game will need to establish that you can trust him as well, so he doesn't just seem like some overzealous, prejudiced guard.)
I think it's good to set this up early, and firmly, but then leave it alone from there - more cynical players may start questioning things sooner (around the time you re-encounter Frank, as that surely sows the seeds of curiosity), but leaving the game open to firmly subvert the initial suppositions right at the end, makes sense. If you push too hard in the rest of the game, the switch would be rather jarring, and forced - but if you look back and can realise that it's just an assumption you've been maintaining habitually all along (and, even more, that it was planted by the same person who reveals it to be untrue), allowing the realisation that it was never true to begin with becomes easier.
Quote: 3) After Shallow Seas And it culminates in a much more dramatic way. All that helping we've been doing, all that getting stronger, all we found out about the animated did the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we wanted to do. All we did was make the animated even more prevalent in gaia. It's just that. We were betrayed, we were mere pawns in this game... We'll start questioning EVERYTHING so far. The hints along the way fall down harder at this point. Would it have been best to leave things be? Is gaia truly better without the animated? Were they even as evil as we were told so much by frank early on, or are they just either acting wildly because of their early development or being controlled by Labtech X? Things spiral down after going to SS. But at least we found out the source of animation. And people we helped trust us now and are depending on us to fix this unsolvable mess. Kin is there and willing to take you on that promised quest to rid the animated. The people who sent you on errands are there to congratulate you, showing you did make a difference. Maybe you didn't solve everything, but you have proof of progress, and you're ready to take the next step. And these next steps feel more important as well. Giving the animated importance early on will make further animated related plots more dramatic as well. And when allied animated NPC's are introduced, proof that the animated can develop into a new Gaian Race in their own right, then the road of possibilities is more exciting.
Personally, I love the way the story ends with more questions than answers - if they can keep doing this with future expansions (answering old questions, and posing new ones - still don't leave too many old loose ends floating around), they'll be in a good position (storywise) to keep expanding. Resolving things too firmly makes any future expansions feel unnecessary, and forced; not resolving them enough makes you feel like you're not going anywhere. Resolve the questions you start at the beginning ("Where are the Animated coming from?" was the headliner for Chapter 1), and try to introduce questions that you didn't even realise existed, before you finish up ("How do we stop them?", in this case - the storyline answers that for you initially, only to have that presupposed answer lost along the way).
One thing I will say, though - as hard as you focus on subverting an initial assumption, you should be careful to re-affirm it equally. For instance, Animated NPCs are a very good argument against the 'Animated are evil!' assumption; make sure to maintain a similarly strong position in favour of it, as well. Subverting initial assumptions does tend to make some players feel like they shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place; only some of them will see an opportunity to 'fix it' or redeem themselves. If players want to hold onto those assumptions, show that there are at least a few NPCs who still feel likewise (the overzealous, prejudiced guard would be good, for this example) - you don't really want to alienate players for buying into what the game was supposed to be teaching them all along, after all... sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:31 am
DrQuint And I watched the video again. And it made me realize one of the most problematic... problems with the game: The PLOT! OMG! I love you Quint! X3 I love all the ideas discussed so far so I'm gonna make separate discussions for each of them in the main forums and I hope you'll post this there again. :3
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:57 am
Red Kutai
What I would do with this, though: have it start with him 'saving' you, proceed to him granting you a ring, and let him teach you to Crew - after the initial attack ring, have the tutorial grant a healing ring, and a buff (as it originally did), and let Frank stress the importance of using them. Have him set to stop attacking (and call for help) when his Health falls too low, or his buffs fall off - and then put the final enemy of the tutorial as one that requires Frank's help (so he can tank and deal damage, since he's obviously higher-level than you). Frank will keep Defib'ing you when you're unsuccessful, though, so you'd get all the chances you need (though at that point, I'd hope they'd have gotten the gist).
Also, make sure he explains why he doesn't give you any of his own Rings - they're soulbound, after all. wink
>Crewing with Frank at the beginning of the gamehttp://www.rgbpicture.com/img/cool/awesome/awesome26.jpgWell, the NPCs can be told to follow the player, true, even if they're a instance-area-spanning Cow, so even if making it possible to crew with them is... completely out of hand (it just sounds so hard to do), then at least we can safeguard that he can accompany the player. Adding a prompt for them to revive you will be the lesser challenge, but I'd love seeing it happen regardless. It also tells the players you can expect crew members to keep each other alive. Plus, NPCs using their own rings is one step closer towards new types of quests. >Quest with scubadivesuitless Marshall/Blaze >They actually use attack rings on whatever you last attacked and show they're not useless
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:51 am
DrQuint Red Kutai
What I would do with this, though: have it start with him 'saving' you, proceed to him granting you a ring, and let him teach you to Crew - after the initial attack ring, have the tutorial grant a healing ring, and a buff (as it originally did), and let Frank stress the importance of using them. Have him set to stop attacking (and call for help) when his Health falls too low, or his buffs fall off - and then put the final enemy of the tutorial as one that requires Frank's help (so he can tank and deal damage, since he's obviously higher-level than you). Frank will keep Defib'ing you when you're unsuccessful, though, so you'd get all the chances you need (though at that point, I'd hope they'd have gotten the gist).
Also, make sure he explains why he doesn't give you any of his own Rings - they're soulbound, after all. wink
>Crewing with Frank at the beginning of the gamehttp://www.rgbpicture.com/img/cool/awesome/awesome26.jpgWell, the NPCs can be told to follow the player, true, even if they're a instance-area-spanning Cow, so even if making it possible to crew with them is... completely out of hand (it just sounds so hard to do), then at least we can safeguard that he can accompany the player. Adding a prompt for them to revive you will be the lesser challenge, but I'd love seeing it happen regardless. It also tells the players you can expect crew members to keep each other alive. Plus, NPCs using their own rings is one step closer towards new types of quests. >Quest with scubadivesuitless Marshall/Blaze >They actually use attack rings on whatever you last attacked and show they're not useless
Making him a "mob" rather than an NPC would make this all rather simple; it's simply a matter of making him a 'valid target' for healing and buffs, at that point, and ensuring that his attack animation is visibly similar to known Rings. It may be unnecessarily complicated to try and put an NPC into a Crew, but having an NPC that you can interact with like a player would have essentially the same effect. The Crew Pane wouldn't function, is the only notable difference; perhaps we could add a graphic to the playscreen that indicates his current Health, buffs, etc. to mitigate that issue. So long as we limit such NPC-players (yes, I would re-use this several times; the options of mobile Protection Trials as well as 'guest party members' turning into bosses seem so very appealing) to instance-specific situations, we wouldn't have the issue of someone accruing multiple 'assistants'. Personally, I think with any game as absolutely focused around Crewing as this one, presenting those paradigms in the tutorial is completely obligatory...
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:16 am
i think jk said he wants to re do it
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:31 pm
Here is a gameplay video I found about zOMG!. I thought some of the points brought out in it were interesting. Gameplay of zOMG!
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