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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:34 am
Saren Tyndall Whoops sweatdrop See, this is why time travel gives me a headache. Blame Rei Torano for asking too many questions and blame Sailor Sapphire for summoning the nerd!
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:11 am
I ask questions because I want to know. I want to know because I want to fit them in better and I thought the storyline was a bit too vague-^ which is why I asked.
While I'll still think that the Black Moon wouldn't have gone back in time on their own because their whole purpose was chasing Chibiusa down because she apparently had the silver crystal.
*Shrugs*
Infinite Earth Theory could still exist with the lines you proposed because they all have to do with the road you have not taken. Exactly as you lined out. Like, every choice they made, there's another world/time where they didn't do it. Or they made a different choice. Or the choice comes later, or earlier.
*and this is why I am not a Philosophy/science major even if my Bachelors is gonna say "Bachelors in Science."*
Either way~
So what exactly IS the story behind it then? Because we have the mechanics of time travel, so how does Diamond and the rest get tangled up?
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:36 am
Rei Torano I ask questions because I want to know. I want to know because I want to fit them in better and I thought the storyline was a bit too vague-^ which is why I asked. While I'll still think that the Black Moon wouldn't have gone back in time on their own because their whole purpose was chasing Chibiusa down because she apparently had the silver crystal. *Shrugs* Infinite Earth Theory could still exist with the lines you proposed because they all have to do with the road you have not taken. Exactly as you lined out. Like, every choice they made, there's another world/time where they didn't do it. Or they made a different choice. Or the choice comes later, or earlier. *and this is why I am not a Philosophy/science major even if my Bachelors is gonna say "Bachelors in Science."* Either way~ So what exactly IS the story behind it then? Because we have the mechanics of time travel, so how does Diamond and the rest get tangled up? It was deliberately vague xD. This all happened 30 years before the RP. Oh well, we're defining it now. As for the infinate universe..maybe...but it's unneeded and adds a level of complexity that may or may not end up breaking the model. Not to say that it's impossible.. it's just doesn't add anything. And for the sake of discussion.. we're just complicating things since the only Universes we should be worried about is ours and the maybe a couple that we split off from. As for how they get mixed up, Diamond tries to seduce Usagi in the Anime. In this universe he succeeds because tuxedo mask doesn't get there in time. (I blame RINI) As for weither they come back or not, we'd be Universe D, and the Black Moon Clan originated from Universe C, any changes they make by successfully seducing Usagi, wouldn't keep them from coming back in time since no changes would occur in Universe C. The originals in Universe C, No matter what they did, events would remain unchanged in universe C. Crystal Tokyo would happen and Little rini will flee back in time with the crystal. (even though the clan would also appear in Universe C, they've be doomed to inadvertently maintain the timeline) (lol,, so what is your major? Mines Computer Science with a minor in math.)
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:53 am
(Personally Blames Chibiusa for everything. If she hadn't wanted to use the Silver crystal- in either anime/manga then the world wouldn't have gone to s**t and the whole debacle would've been avoided. Chibiusa- Responsible for a lot of deaths and pain/suffering of others.)
Oh, Animation. =3 But I have a story tick. My real goal, is to write for companies that produced cartoons and such. Cause so far, I have a very low opinion of them. >>;
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:12 am
(( I like Rini >.<))
But I think I understand better thanks.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:35 pm
Rei Torano (Personally Blames Chibiusa for everything. If she hadn't wanted to use the Silver crystal- in either anime/manga then the world wouldn't have gone to s**t and the whole debacle would've been avoided. Chibiusa- Responsible for a lot of deaths and pain/suffering of others.) Oh, Animation. =3 But I have a story tick. My real goal, is to write for companies that produced cartoons and such. Cause so far, I have a very low opinion of them. >>; Yeah, but also remember, she's also directly responsible for powering them up to super. If she hadn't come back, they might not have been powerful enough to defeat later enemies. (gotta love time travel)
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:59 pm
Sailor Charoite Rei Torano (Personally Blames Chibiusa for everything. If she hadn't wanted to use the Silver crystal- in either anime/manga then the world wouldn't have gone to s**t and the whole debacle would've been avoided. Chibiusa- Responsible for a lot of deaths and pain/suffering of others.) Oh, Animation. =3 But I have a story tick. My real goal, is to write for companies that produced cartoons and such. Cause so far, I have a very low opinion of them. >>; Yeah, but also remember, she's also directly responsible for powering them up to super. If she hadn't come back, they might not have been powerful enough to defeat later enemies. (gotta love time travel) But those later enemies wouldn't have occurred if she hadn't messed with the silver crystal in the first place. Remember, we never saw the Outers save for Pluto ever. Then, it was implied that after the first season we get the future we see in the second. (going by Manga of course.). But it's all kinda screwed up by her time traveling too. Which is even further complicated by her presence in the SuperS book where she -as an adult- appears to Helios in a vision telling him about basically how to help unleashed the golden crystal and the girl that's suppose to help him. She's just one big..setup in a way.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:19 pm
Rei Torano Sailor Charoite Rei Torano (Personally Blames Chibiusa for everything. If she hadn't wanted to use the Silver crystal- in either anime/manga then the world wouldn't have gone to s**t and the whole debacle would've been avoided. Chibiusa- Responsible for a lot of deaths and pain/suffering of others.) Oh, Animation. =3 But I have a story tick. My real goal, is to write for companies that produced cartoons and such. Cause so far, I have a very low opinion of them. >>; Yeah, but also remember, she's also directly responsible for powering them up to super. If she hadn't come back, they might not have been powerful enough to defeat later enemies. (gotta love time travel) But those later enemies wouldn't have occurred if she hadn't messed with the silver crystal in the first place. Remember, we never saw the Outers save for Pluto ever. Then, it was implied that after the first season we get the future we see in the second. (going by Manga of course.). But it's all kinda screwed up by her time traveling too. Which is even further complicated by her presence in the SuperS book where she -as an adult- appears to Helios in a vision telling him about basically how to help unleashed the golden crystal and the girl that's suppose to help him. She's just one big..setup in a way. Thats not true. She messed with teh crystal in Season R. More enemies come in Season S, Season SS and Sailor Stars, none of which is her fault. but yes, she's one giant plot device. XD I don't know why pluto thought it'd be ok to keep sending her back. Just asking for trouble! (Although without her help with the amazon quartet, they may never have been free'd, which means Rini and them couldn't have gone back and saved the day in Sailor Moon Stars. (Magna only, it was omitted in the anime)
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:47 am
Sailor Charoite Rei Torano Sailor Charoite Rei Torano (Personally Blames Chibiusa for everything. If she hadn't wanted to use the Silver crystal- in either anime/manga then the world wouldn't have gone to s**t and the whole debacle would've been avoided. Chibiusa- Responsible for a lot of deaths and pain/suffering of others.) Oh, Animation. =3 But I have a story tick. My real goal, is to write for companies that produced cartoons and such. Cause so far, I have a very low opinion of them. >>; Yeah, but also remember, she's also directly responsible for powering them up to super. If she hadn't come back, they might not have been powerful enough to defeat later enemies. (gotta love time travel) But those later enemies wouldn't have occurred if she hadn't messed with the silver crystal in the first place. Remember, we never saw the Outers save for Pluto ever. Then, it was implied that after the first season we get the future we see in the second. (going by Manga of course.). But it's all kinda screwed up by her time traveling too. Which is even further complicated by her presence in the SuperS book where she -as an adult- appears to Helios in a vision telling him about basically how to help unleashed the golden crystal and the girl that's suppose to help him. She's just one big..setup in a way. Thats not true. She messed with teh crystal in Season R. More enemies come in Season S, Season SS and Sailor Stars, none of which is her fault. but yes, she's one giant plot device. XD I don't know why pluto thought it'd be ok to keep sending her back. Just asking for trouble! (Although without her help with the amazon quartet, they may never have been free'd, which means Rini and them couldn't have gone back and saved the day in Sailor Moon Stars. (Magna only, it was omitted in the anime) Well considering the original ending was the first season, then actually the rest is optional. Because we never saw Pluto in her Super form until in the Stars manga. Which leads to the speculation that yeah, it's pretty much Chibiusa's fault. S is the direct result of Chibiusa. SS- I'm not entirely certain that would've occurred if she doesn't mess with time. But all that makes a very interesting fanfic speculation.
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:49 am
*Expanding on the Super uniform things and chibiusa.*
Alright, before Chibiusa even sets foot in the past, we see that the Inner senshi/Pluto are in their first level outfits. (In both Manga/Anime). That concludes that if she never went back into the past, then they would've grown up just fine until a natural disaster (or whatever. Because it was never specified) happens and Serenity/Endymion take over Earth after saving it.
That means none of their enemies that we see in the latter season would've occurred at this point. And this is where it gets hairy (and where Naoko probably like "Seriously? You want me to make MORE? I was fine with the first season!").
The real branching off comes in the moment she decides to take the Silver Crystal. Because that leaves us with the timeline in where she doesn't take it and actually answers her mother rather then make that poor woman and the rest of the team worry over her.
I've heard it said that as a consequence of Chibiusa's timetraveling, it draws more attention/catches the attention of Chaos more. Which makes sense really.
Kinda like a spiderweb.
But it also brings up the idea of how NQ Serenity reacts to Chibiusa first stating (in Stars) that she wants to go and help Sailor Moon. She shuts her down. Whether out of parental love or something, she says no. Why would she do that the first time if-by her being there and supposedly knowing what's going to happen-would she do that? Not to mention she could've very well have saved all this grief she had to go through if she has simply sent Chibiusa back with a note to herself that could've resolved the Cauldron issue and Galaxia?
Plus we see Pluto in her Super uniform rather then her Eternal form, which was upgraded the last time Chibiusa was in the past.
So either the effects and what she's done doesn't happen until much later or she's effecting another timeline.
*raises hand* I personally like the theory of her effecting another timeline and having the senshi of another timeline training her to be more effective in her own timeline rather then theirs being one single continuous line.
(because then we have to get into- if Crystal Tokyo exists with the Black moon clan and all, did the Sailor senshi intentionally allowed this to happen? Intentionally allowed thousands maybe millions to die because they knew the outcome?)
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Guardian Sailor Topaz Crew
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:41 pm
Since we're doing alternate reality anyhow, there's another option we could consider. Instead of the Black Moon clan coming to the past after Chibiusa, what if instead they came simply for Serenity? Diamande is fanatically in love with her, after all. For whatever reason, FutureTimelinePluto decides that Serenity and Endymion need to be split up in the past. She manages to get Diamande on her side and sends him back to the past to make Serenity his. Chibiusa could be involved, but doesn't necessarily have to be.
Then this would follow along the alternate timeline Charoite posted earlier. FutureTimelinePluto would know what she had done, but her timeline wouldn't be changed. Chibiusa would still exist in her reality. However, in the Gemstone's reality, Serenity ends up with Diamande and Pluto ends up with Endymion, so there is no Chibusa. Pluto in the Gemstone timeline would not know what she had done, since it wasn't her, it was FutureTimelinePluto.
Some of the Black Moon clan members would know what they had done, though probably only the two who are still royalty: Diamande and Saphir. Diamande might or might not care that he altered the timeline, but since he's with his love it might not matter to him. (There's also the potential reasoning that four people are happy in this timeline, where only two were happy in the other timeline.) Saphir's knowledge of what they did might help to drive a rift between him and his brother for our roleplay purposes. The other members of the clan (Rubeus, Emeraude, the Ayakashi girls, all six of whom no longer have the Black Moon symbol for our roleplay) might not even know that they traveled through time or understand the implications of what happened.
The original timeline would still be the same, an alternate universe to the Gemstones'. But almost no one in the Gemstone universe would realize the change since none of them were the ones to travel through time or alter reality.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:18 am
Okay... to be honest, I pretty much got completely lost with this conversation. ^^; Though I will say, Topaz's comment makes sense. lol.
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GS Sailor Sapphire Captain
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:14 am
S'ok. >>; It's one of the great debates.
Though Topaz's idea sounds nifty too.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:27 am
Yeah I think Topaz's statement makes the most secne out of the wole AU and Time travel. The technical stuf gets really comfusing sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:48 am
The thoughts that come to mind from this debate are this:
The problem with the Linear timelines is that they're really no linear timelines. When either Rini or the Black Moon or anyone else travels through time there are infinite possibilities in what could happen.
Each of the parallel universes or web strands reflects upon limitless possibilities that even though they are unlikely to happen they could happen.
For example:
The Black Moon goes back in time release their evil ways and repent becoming a new group of Catholic preachers and nuns.
Rini goes back in time and kills her own mother and destroys the universe.
These two are but just a couple of mere possibilities amongst the infinite. If you can think of it there is a AU for it. If you want to think of it in a real life circumstance, say you were born right handed. In one AU you're left handed, in another you're ambidexterous, in another you use your mouth or even your feet instead of your hands. Now within each of those are infinite AU's based upon whether you go with what you are or against it, plus all of the choices, decisions, and consequences that occurs because your choices.
In Sailor Moon, there is always one constant: Crystal Tokyo. The storyline of this guild revolves around this place. Instead of eliminating Rini, you can run with this idea instead.
The Black Moon attacks Crystal Tokyo, takes NQ Serenity AND Princess Rini away leaving King Endyimon behind making it look to him that his wife and daughter were killed.
While in captivity Demando convinces NQ Serenity over many months that Endyimon is dead and slowly gets her to identify with her captor and falls in love with him. [Stockholm Syndrom]
On the other side Endyimon is devastated by the loss of his family and eventually finds comfort in the arms of Pluto. Eventually he falls in love with her and they marry. [Neither knowing that NQ Serenity is still alive]
This links up the plots I think quite nicely, and lets the future children be born [although with Canon step siblings.] It takes away the messy time travelling stuff and keeps it simple.
Because the one question I had about Topaz's theory is what stops the future Pluto from being stopped by the past Pluto or Kronos the god of time whose gate they protect? It seems likely to me that they wouldn't allow the future pluto to possibly screw the timeline over.
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