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Contralto in a Corset Vice Captain
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 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:33 am
Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony His argument is fallacial much? Has Jesus told anyone that they can not do for themselves? Is there anything in the American Dream, even his version, that says you must solely advance yourself and not others so that they are not garbage eating invalids? Is there anything that shows that American Christians are not Christian? I watched three minutes of it and he does a lot of hissing, but no substance other than a Americans suck vibe. I'm a guy who agrees with him, and I'm a big time patriot, i drove 3 hours each way to vote when i turned 18, we fly a flag at our house, and I love this land, and would gladly die for it, but to follow christ entials doing what he says, if you love someone you'll obey them right, Mathew 7:22-23 says not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the ones who do the will of My father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, do many miracles in your name? then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers. and as for doing for themselves, Mathew 6:19-21 Don't collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don't break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also for christians, if you don't follow christ and do what he said, and be like him, are you still a christian? No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement And I ask again...what does that have to do with the United States?
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:28 am
Splendid Sailor Venus This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that. Here's another thing for you though that starts to hit home Mathew 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food and the body more important than clothes? Kinda getting to the point of saying hey you're going to be poor, don't rely on money for comfort or survival, but rely on god. And to giving up your family Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple What do you think?
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:33 am
X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony His argument is fallacial much? Has Jesus told anyone that they can not do for themselves? Is there anything in the American Dream, even his version, that says you must solely advance yourself and not others so that they are not garbage eating invalids? Is there anything that shows that American Christians are not Christian? I watched three minutes of it and he does a lot of hissing, but no substance other than a Americans suck vibe. I'm a guy who agrees with him, and I'm a big time patriot, i drove 3 hours each way to vote when i turned 18, we fly a flag at our house, and I love this land, and would gladly die for it, but to follow christ entials doing what he says, if you love someone you'll obey them right, Mathew 7:22-23 says not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the ones who do the will of My father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, do many miracles in your name? then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers. and as for doing for themselves, Mathew 6:19-21 Don't collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don't break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also for christians, if you don't follow christ and do what he said, and be like him, are you still a christian? No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ.
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:39 am
Blood_Testimony Splendid Sailor Venus This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that. Here's another thing for you though that starts to hit home Mathew 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food and the body more important than clothes? Kinda getting to the point of saying hey you're going to be poor, don't rely on money for comfort or survival, but rely on god. And to giving up your family Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple What do you think? Oh, the first one I get. It recognizes the heirarchy of needs and the importance of which needs are more important. The second one, Luke 14:26... I get the impression it is perhaps accompanied by something else that elaborates? Although... I also might see a bit of wisdom within it. It's almost like it's hinting that one who is in no way bound to the world, nor has any real affection for it, would make a most ideal disciple for God. This is of course, assuming that God is the one in question. And observing what you first pointed out about the heirarchy of life and family, and the heirarchy of God over everything. If one hates all the things mentioned in that verse, but does not hate God, then it would seem as if such a person only has room in their heart for God and nothing else, which yes, could make them a very worthy disciple. All of this is assuming I might understand the context of that statement. On the other hand, I could be way off
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:57 am
Splendid Sailor Venus Blood_Testimony Splendid Sailor Venus This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that. Here's another thing for you though that starts to hit home Mathew 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food and the body more important than clothes? Kinda getting to the point of saying hey you're going to be poor, don't rely on money for comfort or survival, but rely on god. And to giving up your family Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple What do you think? Oh, the first one I get. It recognizes the heirarchy of needs and the importance of which needs are more important. The second one, Luke 14:26... I get the impression it is perhaps accompanied by something else that elaborates? Although... I also might see a bit of wisdom within it. It's almost like it's hinting that one who is in no way bound to the world, nor has any real affection for it, would make a most ideal disciple for God. This is of course, assuming that God is the one in question. And observing what you first pointed out about the heirarchy of life and family, and the heirarchy of God over everything. If one hates all the things mentioned in that verse, but does not hate God, then it would seem as if such a person only has room in their heart for God and nothing else, which yes, could make them a very worthy disciple. All of this is assuming I might understand the context of that statement. On the other hand, I could be way off You sure are getting closer, though the first one as it may be dealing with hierarchy it's saaying they're all not to be worried about, there's more the next verse says Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valueable then they? and then 27 says Can any one of you by worrying ad a single hour to your life (or a single cubit [18 in) to your height) It's saying cast them aside and don't worry at all, because god will take care of it. The second one is not saying hate the world, but it's a contrast. God comes first in all things, like jesus said the greatest commandment is love the lord your god with all your heart and mind and soul and strength. But you're supposed to love god so much that all else in your life looks like you hate it. it's not saying cast out the world because we are made for relationships, but it's saying God is your everything. The most down and dirty thingg yo could do in the old testament was idolatry, orr put some other thing or "God" before Yahweh. He demands radical obedience to him alone, and Him first.
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:37 am
Splendid Sailor Venus Blood_Testimony Splendid Sailor Venus This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that. Here's another thing for you though that starts to hit home Mathew 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food and the body more important than clothes? Kinda getting to the point of saying hey you're going to be poor, don't rely on money for comfort or survival, but rely on god. And to giving up your family Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple What do you think? Oh, the first one I get. It recognizes the heirarchy of needs and the importance of which needs are more important. The second one, Luke 14:26... I get the impression it is perhaps accompanied by something else that elaborates? Although... I also might see a bit of wisdom within it. It's almost like it's hinting that one who is in no way bound to the world, nor has any real affection for it, would make a most ideal disciple for God. This is of course, assuming that God is the one in question. And observing what you first pointed out about the heirarchy of life and family, and the heirarchy of God over everything. If one hates all the things mentioned in that verse, but does not hate God, then it would seem as if such a person only has room in their heart for God and nothing else, which yes, could make them a very worthy disciple. All of this is assuming I might understand the context of that statement. On the other hand, I could be way off Posting a single verse generally doesn't help someone figure out the context of something. And no, I havent forgotten about you Blood. Your constant generalizations based on the actions of a few are just assinine. Show me a verse in context that says that not talking about Sin is a bad thing. I
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:17 pm
deadmanjay Splendid Sailor Venus Blood_Testimony Splendid Sailor Venus This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that. Here's another thing for you though that starts to hit home Mathew 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food and the body more important than clothes? Kinda getting to the point of saying hey you're going to be poor, don't rely on money for comfort or survival, but rely on god. And to giving up your family Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple What do you think? Oh, the first one I get. It recognizes the heirarchy of needs and the importance of which needs are more important. The second one, Luke 14:26... I get the impression it is perhaps accompanied by something else that elaborates? Although... I also might see a bit of wisdom within it. It's almost like it's hinting that one who is in no way bound to the world, nor has any real affection for it, would make a most ideal disciple for God. This is of course, assuming that God is the one in question. And observing what you first pointed out about the heirarchy of life and family, and the heirarchy of God over everything. If one hates all the things mentioned in that verse, but does not hate God, then it would seem as if such a person only has room in their heart for God and nothing else, which yes, could make them a very worthy disciple. All of this is assuming I might understand the context of that statement. On the other hand, I could be way off Posting a single verse generally doesn't help someone figure out the context of something. And no, I havent forgotten about you Blood. Your constant generalizations based on the actions of a few are just assinine. Show me a verse in context that says that not talking about Sin is a bad thing. I The entire point of jesus coming to earth was to save us from sin, otherwise he wouldn't have need died, how is it right to not mention that there is sin, that it breaks hearts, it's the cause of genocide, rage, depression, abuse, and death, how is the god of truth supposed to be the god of truth without giving the whole truth
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:32 pm
I don't agree with the "prosperity preaching" that seems so popular right now, and I don't agree with the "pure grace" teaching happening now either. Yes, we were meant to prosper, but that means spiritually, and yes through grace we are saved not works, but people tend to listen to it and decide that the fruit isn't important...
But I don't believe that we are all meant be impoverished. I think that this discussion is taking a "serve two masters" bent that isn't necessary. I can work to have a decent and comfortable life here on Earth and still be Christian. What Jesus wants is for us to realize that what we do here is impermanent, and He wants us to be able to give up what we have acquired if He calls us to do so.
Jesus had wealthy friends and disciples, He didn't call on them all to give up that wealth. He did say it was harder for a rich man to do so if they were so called, but not every one is called to do so. We are mandated to have the ability to do so, but in the end, only God knows what is in a person's heart.
I think that the American dream is very much in line with the Word of God. As Christians, we are called to live, we are free through God's divine grace, and we actively pursue happiness in seeking deeper communion with God.
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Contralto in a Corset Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:14 pm
Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony I'm a guy who agrees with him, and I'm a big time patriot, i drove 3 hours each way to vote when i turned 18, we fly a flag at our house, and I love this land, and would gladly die for it, but to follow christ entials doing what he says, if you love someone you'll obey them right, Mathew 7:22-23 says not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the ones who do the will of My father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, do many miracles in your name? then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers. and as for doing for themselves, Mathew 6:19-21 Don't collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don't break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also for christians, if you don't follow christ and do what he said, and be like him, are you still a christian? No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ.
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:30 pm
X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony I'm a guy who agrees with him, and I'm a big time patriot, i drove 3 hours each way to vote when i turned 18, we fly a flag at our house, and I love this land, and would gladly die for it, but to follow christ entials doing what he says, if you love someone you'll obey them right, Mathew 7:22-23 says not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the ones who do the will of My father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, do many miracles in your name? then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers. and as for doing for themselves, Mathew 6:19-21 Don't collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don't break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also for christians, if you don't follow christ and do what he said, and be like him, are you still a christian? No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. it's a postmodern society kind of deal. How does it not deal with america?
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:34 pm
Blood_Testimony The entire point of jesus coming to earth was to save us from sin, otherwise he wouldn't have need died, how is it right to not mention that there is sin, that it breaks hearts, it's the cause of genocide, rage, depression, abuse, and death, how is the god of truth supposed to be the god of truth without giving the whole truth So, let's all watch passion of the Christ and start ranting about how people aren't good Christians because they want to focus on the love for God and thy fellow man that Jesus taught while he lived? Let's focus or give just as much credence to sin and hell instead of to God and to heaven? Does that sound about right?
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:36 pm
I think I get what most of you are getting, at least in the nutshell sense anyway. I know a good number of Christian business men and contractors, many of whom I work closely with. And the way I see a lot of them carry on, it sure would seem they put God first.
To throw out a few examples. Like one of them with his kids. They're well off, and in some ways a bit spoiled at times, but when he notices this, he invests the extra time to spend with them to bring them closer to God. He will go over the Bible with them for hours, and sometimes he's nearly in tears. And the way his kids (and even me sometimes) have reacted to that is a real attention grabber. This is a guy who just doesn't cry, a very stern business man, but there he'll be, soaked up in the Bible like his life depends on. (no pun intended, seriously XD) Andit's interesting to witness how his reaction to it seems to keep his children alerted to its importance. This is in contrast to some of my observations at the youth Bible study where a lot of times kids are whispering about their poke'mon cards between lessons. It seems without the passion of interest, it makes it easier to lose focus. Anyway, back on topic here...
He will also take things away from his children and ground them if they are behaving unGodly, which I think is sound of judgement and makes perfect sense, after all, not to could be conceived as rewarding their behavior.
This same guy started a huge building contract for a company once. He invested a lot of money, but when he found out the guy he made the contract with was literally into devil worship, he very casually told the guy - I was with him when he did it (clerk at the time) He said "Hey man, I keep hearing some nonsense about you worshipping the devil? I'm sure you don't, but you've got a lot of people working for you that are saying that and I don't think that's right of them to do that." And this guy just shook his head. "No. They've got it right, but let's leave religion out of this, shall we?"
That kind of changed things. My boss told him, "Well, I'm really sorry to hear that. But if that's true, I'm afraid we can't keep doing business like this."
The other guy was a little surprised. "You're joking, right?" He even laughed it off. My boss just shook his head. And there was pain in his words, but I knew him long enough to know the pain wasn't because of all the money he was losing by making the choice. It was the same way he was about this with everyone. He said, "No... I'm not. But if you'll just give him the chance." He tried to give the guy HIS Bible. He cotninued, "I've been going by this book for fifteen years, and it's never once steered me wrong."
The guy refused it.
My boss was actually almost in tears, but he maintained his composure.
"Jesus can save you," he told him. "He can save you from all of it."
The guy didn't accept the book. He just backed off. "Alright. We're done here." And then he left. Me and my boss got back in the car. I was pretty sure I understood why he was upset. He looked at me. "You know why I'm upset, right?"
"It's not over losing business." I said.
"I'm in the buisiness of construction," he told me. "I can lose a deal and it doesn't bother me, but before that, I'm in the business of saving souls. And that's a deal that hurts to lose."
He wasn't the least bit worried about money.
And the fact that he tried to give him his Bible because he knew it would help. Yeah, so it was a hard thing not to cry about just witnessing it.
And for a lot of others like him. There are many people who make good use of money just as a farmer makes good use of the land. But before and after the harvest, they praise and spread the word of God with him foremost in their lives. And that's the thing with people like that. When it shows that much, there's just not much room for doubting their actions.
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:24 pm
deadmanjay Blood_Testimony The entire point of jesus coming to earth was to save us from sin, otherwise he wouldn't have need died, how is it right to not mention that there is sin, that it breaks hearts, it's the cause of genocide, rage, depression, abuse, and death, how is the god of truth supposed to be the god of truth without giving the whole truth So, let's all watch passion of the Christ and start ranting about how people aren't good Christians because they want to focus on the love for God and thy fellow man that Jesus taught while he lived? Let's focus or give just as much credence to sin and hell instead of to God and to heaven? Does that sound about right? Actually it is closer. Take the parable of the prodigal son, there were two sons, one went off and squandered his share of the estate on prostitutes in a foreign land and came back to his father begging forgiveness to be like his fathers hired hands to earn his way back, and the father wouldn't have it, he took him back into his arms, and the older brother also just wanted the fathers stuff and rejected his younger brother, both the younger and the older sons were only interested in the fathers estate and not the father, the younger by doing bad, the older by doing good. And they were both wrong, and in need of relationship of the father. They both were wrong, one for doing bad, the other for doing good. They're both missing the point.
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:29 pm
Splendid Sailor Venus I think I get what most of you are getting, at least in the nutshell sense anyway. I know a good number of Christian business men and contractors, many of whom I work closely with. And the way I see a lot of them carry on, it sure would seem they put God first. To throw out a few examples. Like one of them with his kids. They're well off, and in some ways a bit spoiled at times, but when he notices this, he invests the extra time to spend with them to bring them closer to God. He will go over the Bible with them for hours, and sometimes he's nearly in tears. And the way his kids (and even me sometimes) have reacted to that is a real attention grabber. This is a guy who just doesn't cry, a very stern business man, but there he'll be, soaked up in the Bible like his life depends on. (no pun intended, seriously XD) Andit's interesting to witness how his reaction to it seems to keep his children alerted to its importance. This is in contrast to some of my observations at the youth Bible study where a lot of times kids are whispering about their poke'mon cards between lessons. It seems without the passion of interest, it makes it easier to lose focus. Anyway, back on topic here... He will also take things away from his children and ground them if they are behaving unGodly, which I think is sound of judgement and makes perfect sense, after all, not to could be conceived as rewarding their behavior. This same guy started a huge building contract for a company once. He invested a lot of money, but when he found out the guy he made the contract with was literally into devil worship, he very casually told the guy - I was with him when he did it (clerk at the time) He said "Hey man, I keep hearing some nonsense about you worshipping the devil? I'm sure you don't, but you've got a lot of people working for you that are saying that and I don't think that's right of them to do that." And this guy just shook his head. "No. They've got it right, but let's leave religion out of this, shall we?" That kind of changed things. My boss told him, "Well, I'm really sorry to hear that. But if that's true, I'm afraid we can't keep doing business like this." The other guy was a little surprised. "You're joking, right?" He even laughed it off. My boss just shook his head. And there was pain in his words, but I knew him long enough to know the pain wasn't because of all the money he was losing by making the choice. It was the same way he was about this with everyone. He said, "No... I'm not. But if you'll just give him the chance." He tried to give the guy HIS Bible. He cotninued, "I've been going by this book for fifteen years, and it's never once steered me wrong." The guy refused it. My boss was actually almost in tears, but he maintained his composure. "Jesus can save you," he told him. "He can save you from all of it." The guy didn't accept the book. He just backed off. "Alright. We're done here." And then he left. Me and my boss got back in the car. I was pretty sure I understood why he was upset. He looked at me. "You know why I'm upset, right?" "It's not over losing business." I said. "I'm in the buisiness of construction," he told me. "I can lose a deal and it doesn't bother me, but before that, I'm in the business of saving souls. And that's a deal that hurts to lose." He wasn't the least bit worried about money. And the fact that he tried to give him his Bible because he knew it would help. Yeah, so it was a hard thing not to cry about just witnessing it. And for a lot of others like him. There are many people who make good use of money just as a farmer makes good use of the land. But before and after the harvest, they praise and spread the word of God with him foremost in their lives. And that's the thing with people like that. When it shows that much, there's just not much room for doubting their actions. I'm quite certain your boss was spot on. He seriously nailed it right on target. Having possessions isn't a sin at all, and God blesses us that we may bless others.
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Contralto in a Corset Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:29 am
Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. it's a postmodern society kind of deal. How does it not deal with america?
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