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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:49 am
* Interesting.
"Charge of the Godess" .... First, i have no idea of its actual Origin, and it is very possible that i had never known about it at all, if i hadn't bought a CD by the Irish artist Sinéad O'Connor, called "Universal Mother".
..... I don't know how to share it.
Post it here? (It might be shorter than Sophias.)
PM it to you?
..........
* To me, the "kill the Buddha" koan is not so much about preconceptions, as it is .....
Well, Buddah teaches enlightment, so that others may become like him.
You cannot become like Buddha if you keep looking at Buddha as an idol, because idolising is a worldly thing, and Buddha has left those things behind.
... As for killing Christ ......
I prefer to simply questioning things, even beyond disbelief, because, if it is true, it will prove true.
But, if it is not true, it cannot be proven true.
At least, that is my simple way of looking at things ....
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:23 am
Tiina Brown * Interesting. "Charge of the Godess" .... First, i have no idea of its actual Origin, and it is very possible that i had never known about it at all, if i hadn't bought a CD by the Irish artist Sinéad O'Connor, called "Universal Mother". ..... I don't know how to share it. Post it here? (It might be shorter than Sophias.) PM it to you? .......... The earliest copy of it I hear is on Sacred-Texts.com in Gerald Gardner's Book of Shadows. Doreen Valentine had published a variation of Gardner's and now it's a staple in many neo-pagan circles. I thought there were some more parallels in it or passages from it you were wanting to bring up. Proverbs 8 isn't actually called the Charge of Sophia btw. It's a proverb focused on one of God's feminine aspects, Wisdom (Sophia), and what is needed to seek Her out. Quote: * To me, the "kill the Buddha" koan is not so much about preconceptions, as it is ..... Well, Buddah teaches enlightment, so that others may become like him. You cannot become like Buddha if you keep looking at Buddha as an idol, because idolising is a worldly thing, and Buddha has left those things behind. ... As for killing Christ ...... I prefer to simply questioning things, even beyond disbelief, because, if it is true, it will prove true. But, if it is not true, it cannot be proven true. At least, that is my simple way of looking at things .... That's why worship of Christ here is emulation first and foremost. Next that is one of the lessons that the Mystery of the Resurrection. You can try to kill Truth but Truth can only be hidden (die) for so long before it "resurrects".
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:14 am
rmcdra Tiina Brown * Interesting. "Charge of the Godess" .... First, i have no idea of its actual Origin, and it is very possible that i had never known about it at all, if i hadn't bought a CD by the Irish artist Sinéad O'Connor, called "Universal Mother". ..... I don't know how to share it. Post it here? (It might be shorter than Sophias.) PM it to you? .......... The earliest copy of it I hear is on Sacred-Texts.com in Gerald Gardner's Book of Shadows. Doreen Valentine had published a variation of Gardner's and now it's a staple in many neo-pagan circles. I thought there were some more parallels in it or passages from it you were wanting to bring up. Proverbs 8 isn't actually called the Charge of Sophia btw. It's a proverb focused on one of God's feminine aspects, Wisdom (Sophia), and what is needed to seek Her out. Quote: * To me, the "kill the Buddha" koan is not so much about preconceptions, as it is ..... Well, Buddah teaches enlightment, so that others may become like him. You cannot become like Buddha if you keep looking at Buddha as an idol, because idolising is a worldly thing, and Buddha has left those things behind. ... As for killing Christ ...... I prefer to simply questioning things, even beyond disbelief, because, if it is true, it will prove true. But, if it is not true, it cannot be proven true. At least, that is my simple way of looking at things .... That's why worship of Christ here is emulation first and foremost. Next that is one of the lessons that the Mystery of the Resurrection. You can try to kill Truth but Truth can only be hidden (die) for so long before it "resurrects". I looked at Sacred-Texts.com, and the thing i referred to, must have been a shortened-down version of this, plus an added finising comment of "Blessed Be" .... : "Charge of the Godess"The version i had read, compared to this, had several witchcraft-references removed, keeping things like "once a month, ye shall gather", "to these i shall teach things yet unknown", "my love has been poured out", "i have been with thee from the beginning, and i await thee now." Yes, some things do seem a bit diifferent, but they are largely the same. ... It makes me wonder if it is Gardnerian, or if it is from Doreens ..... For what i know, it might even be older than Gardner ... But that is a different topic. So, back to the Topic: Has anything changed on how you look at it?
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:32 am
Tiina Brown I looked at Sacred-Texts.com, and the thing i referred to, must have been a shortened-down version of this, plus an added finising comment of "Blessed Be" .... : "Charge of the Godess"The version i had read, compared to this, had several witchcraft-references removed, keeping things like "once a month, ye shall gather", "to these i shall teach things yet unknown", "my love has been poured out", "i have been with thee from the beginning, and i await thee now." Yes, some things do seem a bit diifferent, but they are largely the same. ... It makes me wonder if it is Gardnerian, or if it is from Doreens ..... For what i know, it might even be older than Gardner ... But that is a different topic. wiki claims that it might go back to "The Golden a**" where Isis gives her "charge", but the oldest documentation of it dates back to Gardner in the 1940's. Quote: So, back to the Topic: Has anything changed on how you look at it? The Koan? I think that's a good interpretation on it. It is one I didn't think of. I'm sorry if I am missing what you are asking, I am terribly tired and it close to the time I go to bed. I may need to re-read it when I get up.
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:42 am
rmcdra Tiina Brown I looked at Sacred-Texts.com, and the thing i referred to, must have been a shortened-down version of this, plus an added finising comment of "Blessed Be" .... : "Charge of the Godess"The version i had read, compared to this, had several witchcraft-references removed, keeping things like "once a month, ye shall gather", "to these i shall teach things yet unknown", "my love has been poured out", "i have been with thee from the beginning, and i await thee now." Yes, some things do seem a bit diifferent, but they are largely the same. ... It makes me wonder if it is Gardnerian, or if it is from Doreens ..... For what i know, it might even be older than Gardner ... But that is a different topic. wiki claims that it might go back to "The Golden a**" where Isis gives her "charge", but the oldest documentation of it dates back to Gardner in the 1940's. Quote: So, back to the Topic: Has anything changed on how you look at it? The Koan? I think that's a good interpretation on it. It is one I didn't think of. I'm sorry if I am missing what you are asking, I am terribly tired and it close to the time I go to bed. I may need to re-read it when I get up. Have a good sleep. biggrin Isis. I'm not surprised if it is: Of what i have read, the original "black Madonnas" (not the one scarred in a fire), was actually statues of Isis ..... No, i did not mean the Koan, i meant, if you look at your original post, has anything changed, of how you look at your own questions?
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:03 pm
While I am enjoying the discussion so far I think that only the surface is being scratched thus far regarding the questions. I feel like I'm gaining some insight here but I think we are addressing it from a politico-social perspective which is interesting but it's not encouraging that looking inward and re-thinking about one's self. I think that we are examining this from a Catholic perspective (Catholic as in what has become commonly accepted as the only Christianity and most modern sects base themselves on) and that's not bad, just that there are other perspectives that I don't think are being explored since there were sects in Early Christianity that did claim Mary as a spiritual authority and in some equal to Christ in terms of divinity.
This lacking might because I worded my questions poorly or because I didn't speak up when I first started to think that the event might have been explored too literally.
Edit: While I did have some re-thinking and re-evaluating going on due to this discussion, it was not connected to my initial questions at all. In that regard it has been fruitful.
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:43 pm
As i see it, your statements in the first post is something that would actually tear up the catholic views, so i don't consider the discussion to have any catholic focus at all.
But, this may be due to that we define "Catholic Christianity" in different ways.
Also, to me, it is obvious that once symbolical things, are today noticed causes to effects, .... a bit like when something goes from "belief" to "knowledge".
I also think, how could the statement you've given in the original post affect your view on the I AM?
I mean, you already knew that Man and Femme really is equal in the eyes of God.
You already know that God really cannot be defined by gender.
You already define the I AM as the human core, that is a part of God.
So
Do your statments in the OP really change this in any way?
Is re-thinking really neccesary, or is this actually .... a confirmation?
.......
I just noticed i sounded a bit harsh there .... sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:51 am
I think that might be the case.
It's fine and I don't find it too harsh. It's honest so that's good. While it confirms that I do understand the basics of the I AM is shows that I'm far off in comprehending the I AM outside of the mythos to others that are unfamiliar with the mythos I understand. Through this discussion it has shown me that I am still insecure about some of the things I think I understand and I am still questioning if I understand them or if I think I understand them. It has shown me that I'm not as bold I would like to think that I am and that I am still quite... full of myself. Your comment about "picking up things easier than others" honestly annoyed me because it is one of the things that I am still full of myself concern. But it was good that you did because it shows me one of the things I am holding on to that is keeping down.
I guess it's been more self-reflective than re-thinking more than anything for me.
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:01 am
rmcdra I think that might be the case. It's fine and I don't find it too harsh. It's honest so that's good. While it confirms that I do understand the basics of the I AM is shows that I'm far off in comprehending the I AM outside of the mythos to others that are unfamiliar with the mythos I understand. Through this discussion it has shown me that I am still insecure about some of the things I think I understand and I am still questioning if I understand them or if I think I understand them. It has shown me that I'm not as bold I would like to think that I am and that I am still quite... full of myself. Your comment about "picking up things easier than others" honestly annoyed me because it is one of the things that I am still full of myself concern. But it was good that you did because it shows me one of the things I am holding on to that is keeping down. I guess it's been more self-reflective than re-thinking more than anything for me. Um, could you please rephase that? i'm not sure if i understood even half of it .... sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:26 am
Tiina Brown rmcdra I think that might be the case. It's fine and I don't find it too harsh. It's honest so that's good. While it confirms that I do understand the basics of the I AM is shows that I'm far off in comprehending the I AM outside of the mythos to others that are unfamiliar with the mythos I understand. Through this discussion it has shown me that I am still insecure about some of the things I think I understand and I am still questioning if I understand them or if I think I understand them. It has shown me that I'm not as bold I would like to think that I am and that I am still quite... full of myself. Your comment about "picking up things easier than others" honestly annoyed me because it is one of the things that I am still full of myself concern. But it was good that you did because it shows me one of the things I am holding on to that is keeping down. I guess it's been more self-reflective than re-thinking more than anything for me. Um, could you please rephase that? i'm not sure if i understood even half of it .... sweatdrop Alright let me try again. Yes this discussion has had some affirming elements to it but it's also been self reflective for me. The following things I have discovered about myself through our discussion so far. - I have a basic understanding of the I AM it is still limited in that I still rely on the mythos that I learned it from to describe rather than from my own perspective. - I am still insecure about some of the things I understand or at least think I understand. - I am still quite full of myself. Your comment about "picking up things easier than others" honestly annoyed me because I was childishly thinking, "but that's my talent, not yours".
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:13 am
rmcdra Tiina Brown Um, could you please rephase that? i'm not sure if i understood even half of it .... sweatdrop Alright let me try again. Yes this discussion has had some affirming elements to it but it's also been self reflective for me. The following things I have discovered about myself through our discussion so far. - I have a basic understanding of the I AM it is still limited in that I still rely on the mythos that I learned it from to describe rather than from my own perspective. - I am still insecure about some of the things I understand or at least think I understand. - I am still quite full of myself. Your comment about "picking up things easier than others" honestly annoyed me because I was childishly thinking, "but that's my talent, not yours". Ah, that i understood! Hm, relying on what you have learned, rather than ones own perspective. Ok.Why not? On the other hand, ok, so a part of me is possibly (of) God. So? So are a part of you, anyone i've met, anyone i haven't met, (and everything else, if you go by the Animist' way). I used to think "who/what am i?" I know enough of that today, to say "I am me". Who knows everything? I have, in my own way, tried to find the truth about several things, even the divine, since way before i became religous(perhaps even the pre-teens), but still, i know far from all ....... I become insecure when i don't understand ..... Ahem ( lol ) several people have that talent, you and i are just two of several. * smiles * you have picked up some things, i have picked up others. You have given me several pieces to my attempts to put together the truth, even when you have disagreed with me.
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:35 pm
Tiina Brown Ah, that i understood! Hm, relying on what you have learned, rather than ones own perspective. Ok.Why not? On the other hand, ok, so a part of me is possibly (of) God. So? So are a part of you, anyone i've met, anyone i haven't met, (and everything else, if you go by the Animist' way). I used to think "who/what am i?" I know enough of that today, to say "I am me". Who knows everything? I have, in my own way, tried to find the truth about several things, even the divine, since way before i became religous(perhaps even the pre-teens), but still, i know far from all ....... I become insecure when i don't understand ..... Ahem ( lol ) several people have that talent, you and i are just two of several. * smiles * you have picked up some things, i have picked up others. You have given me several pieces to my attempts to put together the truth, even when you have disagreed with me. Thank you The last one I'm quite embarrassed of since it's one I know better on but yet I found that above to be my first reaction.
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:22 am
rmcdra Tiina Brown Ah, that i understood! Hm, relying on what you have learned, rather than ones own perspective. Ok.Why not? On the other hand, ok, so a part of me is possibly (of) God. So? So are a part of you, anyone i've met, anyone i haven't met, (and everything else, if you go by the Animist' way). I used to think "who/what am i?" I know enough of that today, to say "I am me". Who knows everything? I have, in my own way, tried to find the truth about several things, even the divine, since way before i became religous(perhaps even the pre-teens), but still, i know far from all ....... I become insecure when i don't understand ..... Ahem ( lol ) several people have that talent, you and i are just two of several. * smiles * you have picked up some things, i have picked up others. You have given me several pieces to my attempts to put together the truth, even when you have disagreed with me. Thank you The last one I'm quite embarrassed of since it's one I know better on but yet I found that above to be my first reaction. No-one is perfect. It's possible that not even Jesus were perfect .... but then ... "if i can learn, so can you" .... perhaps that would be why Jesus wasn't "perfect" as such, so those around him would be more inclined to understand the message, as he himself understood a bit more through his experiences. Anyway, where does these conclusions take this topic?
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:13 am
Tiina Brown No-one is perfect. It's possible that not even Jesus were perfect .... but then ... "if i can learn, so can you" .... perhaps that would be why Jesus wasn't "perfect" as such, so those around him would be more inclined to understand the message, as he himself understood a bit more through his experiences. Anyway, where does these conclusions take this topic? I get that I just have problems sharing my faults with others since I have an extreme fear rejection. Forcing myself to be honest in these discussions helps me with seeing that most of my fears are over-exaggerated at best. The topic has long been derailed XD. These little self-reflections were just things I noticed as I responded to you in this thread. I'll pull the discussion back on topic in my next post and share my interpretation of Mary being the first apostle. I don't have time now since I have to go to bed early to run errands this afternoon.
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:38 am
I have a kind of fer for rejection as well, actually.
And yes, it may seem like the topic has been derailed, but i think it was neccesary.
But i think it is also neccesary to return to the OP now.
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