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 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:03 pm
cnoisy Quintafeira12 cnoisy Valheita Phew, I'm glad the explanation made sense to one of us xd Might I suggest, doing a level drain effect? The animated is treated as .1 of a C.L. per RR less than it is?what? xD the words are all jumbled together in my mind and i can't make heads or tails of it sweatdrop It means that when you use the ring on an animated, it's stats are reduced as if it was a lower level. Let's say, you're fighting a Cl 8.0 Sand Golem. You use this effect on it on RR2, then the Golem, while still a Cl 8.0, would have the Attack Power, Accuracy, Dodge, etc. of a Cl 7.8 Golem while this was in effect. RR4 would reduce it to Cl 7.6, while RR1 would only take it to 7.9. oooh okay, that makes sense, ya i think that would be a good effect, should i replace that effect with the defense thing?
Keep in mind, relative CL also affects the damage dealt and received. A 0.1 CL penalty would also carry a 5% penalty (I think) to both damage dealt, and damage received. Essentially, that one ability replaces the whole effect...
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:07 pm
Red Kutai cnoisy Quintafeira12 cnoisy Valheita Phew, I'm glad the explanation made sense to one of us xd Might I suggest, doing a level drain effect? The animated is treated as .1 of a C.L. per RR less than it is?what? xD the words are all jumbled together in my mind and i can't make heads or tails of it sweatdrop It means that when you use the ring on an animated, it's stats are reduced as if it was a lower level. Let's say, you're fighting a Cl 8.0 Sand Golem. You use this effect on it on RR2, then the Golem, while still a Cl 8.0, would have the Attack Power, Accuracy, Dodge, etc. of a Cl 7.8 Golem while this was in effect. RR4 would reduce it to Cl 7.6, while RR1 would only take it to 7.9. oooh okay, that makes sense, ya i think that would be a good effect, should i replace that effect with the defense thing?
Keep in mind, relative CL also affects the damage dealt and received. A 0.1 CL penalty would also carry a 5% penalty (I think) to both damage dealt, and damage received. Essentially, that one ability replaces the whole effect...
ya, though you can't forget the speed debuff part, because speed is not affected by CL unfortunately, so ya, i'll shall replace it...
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:49 pm
Also, I was curious just what you were thinking with... Well, all the costs. sweatdrop
A 50-second Cooldown? With a 90 second debuff? What's the reasoning behind that, exactly? Also, Stamina costs aren't randomised, so "9-13 Stamina" doesn't really have a precedent, and I don't see that it stands to add anything.
How closely are you trying to emulate Jack's attack, on this one? Are you actually turning the target into a Pumpkin Fluff? Jack's debuff didn't have a duration - why do you think this version needs one? And... I don't recall whether Jack's debuff actually depowered the target at all (beside Footspeed) - what was your reason for adding that part of the effect? I'm not saying that it's a bad effect, only that you've taken quite a few steps away from the effect you're basing it on, and I'd like to understand the reasoning for each of them...
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:53 pm
I didn't notice it until the VERY end of the Halloween event, but Jack's pumpkin attack reduced the max HP of his victims by 50x CL. (Half of your maximum before adding Ghi, Meat, etc.)
And an 0.1 CL reduction would actually cause a 5% increase in damage recieved and slightly more than 5% decrease in damage output. This is because, in addition to relative CL changes, a lower OCL equals lower power.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:03 pm
Red Kutai
Also, I was curious just what you were thinking with... Well, all the costs. sweatdrop
A 50-second Cooldown? With a 90 second debuff? What's the reasoning behind that, exactly? Also, Stamina costs aren't randomised, so "9-13 Stamina" doesn't really have a precedent, and I don't see that it stands to add anything.
How closely are you trying to emulate Jack's attack, on this one? Are you actually turning the target into a Pumpkin Fluff? Jack's debuff didn't have a duration - why do you think this version needs one? And... I don't recall whether Jack's debuff actually depowered the target at all (beside Footspeed) - what was your reason for adding that part of the effect? I'm not saying that it's a bad effect, only that you've taken quite a few steps away from the effect you're basing it on, and I'd like to understand the reasoning for each of them...
well for the stamina cost i was thinking that 9 stamina would be the cost of an RR1, etc. and since that is the case that 13 should be a 12. and no, the animated would not actually be turned into a pumpkin fluff, even though that would be really awesome xD, as for the depowering effect, that i just added sweatdrop also, there is also no real reason for why i chose that specific amount of time for the cooldown and duration, though the reason there is a duration is because most crowd control rings don't last forever, and for the cooldown i based that on its effects, like i base it on how powerful or affective the ring actually is
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:05 pm
Thard_Verad I didn't notice it until the VERY end of the Halloween event, but Jack's pumpkin attack reduced the max HP of his victims by 50x CL. (Half of your maximum before adding Ghi, Meat, etc.) And an 0.1 CL reduction would actually cause a 5% increase in damage recieved and slightly more than 5% decrease in damage output. This is because, in addition to relative CL changes, a lower OCL equals lower power. yes, this has already been pointed out, that is why it replaced the previous two other effects, which were minus defense and minus damage output/damage dealt, remember though that this ring isn't supposed to be used on allies, or rather it can't
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:15 pm
Ah, sorry cnoisy. My post was directed more at Red. He was wondering what Jack's attack debuffed, and I pointed out a minor correction on the 5% thing. I actually didn't get here soon enough to see your original version, but I kinda like where the idea's going. Red Kutai
I haven't seen an incarnation of this ring, yet, that actually scales with CL. Give me a reason to put orbs into it, please? 
Reason to add orbs? How about... the ring only works on targets within 1.0 CL of the ring's CL? You shouldn't need to weaken anything that's already below your level.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:18 pm
Thard_Verad I didn't notice it until the VERY end of the Halloween event, but Jack's pumpkin attack reduced the max HP of his victims by 50x CL. (Half of your maximum before adding Ghi, Meat, etc.) And an 0.1 CL reduction would actually cause a 5% increase in damage recieved and slightly more than 5% decrease in damage output. This is because, in addition to relative CL changes, a lower OCL equals lower power.
Really, now? I admit I only fought Jack a couple times, but I was turned into a Pumpkin Fluff each time - seems I should've noticed that. sweatdrop
And, yes, I recognised that - however, since this is only an effective CL drop (not an actual one) you'd be able to get away with picking-and-choosing which stats are based on effective CL, and which are based on actual CL. If maintaining a precise 5% is important, it would be easy enough to have Animated damage output not factor the CL modifications, on its own...
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:25 pm
Thard_Verad Ah, sorry cnoisy. My post was directed more at Red. He was wondering what Jack's attack debuffed, and I pointed out a minor correction on the 5% thing. I actually didn't get here soon enough to see your original version, but I kinda like where the idea's going. Red Kutai
I haven't seen an incarnation of this ring, yet, that actually scales with CL. Give me a reason to put orbs into it, please?
Reason to add orbs? How about... the ring only works on targets within 1.0 CL of the ring's CL? You shouldn't need to weaken anything that's already below your level.
A boolean comparsion of CLs is never really satisfying, as it doesn't add anything interesting to the ring - it becomes a matter of "works on everything" or "works on nothing", and I'd rather avoid the latter situation, regardless.
I do like where the concept is headed, though, so I'll see if I can't think of a way to CL-scale it... whee
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:04 pm
Perhaps a "works on up to 1 C.L above the rings level".
Also, seriously suggesting making it a CC effect, rather than a debuff.
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:52 am
Why a CC effect over Debuff?
So it can miss and is unrelated to willpower?
Also, did Jack also affect other stats after pumpkinzation? Since Hp drain was related to CL, we could be unknowingly be looking at something already present in-game in a different form.
Being already present means that its easier to turn into a ring, and that it's already known to work within the game's engine.
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:02 pm
Valheita Perhaps a "works on up to 1 C.L above the rings level". Also, seriously suggesting making it a CC effect, rather than a debuff. i think it would work if it only worked on animated below--1.0 over your CL. @quint i fought Jack a lot and was turned into a pumpkin fluff a lot lol, and the only thing i really noticed was the speed, the HP thing is new to me o.O, so as far as i know i don't think it affected anything else
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:45 pm
Quintafeira12 Why a CC effect over Debuff? So it can miss and is unrelated to willpower? Also, did Jack also affect other stats after pumpkinzation? Since Hp drain was related to CL, we could be unknowingly be looking at something already present in-game in a different form. Being already present means that its easier to turn into a ring, and that it's already known to work within the game's engine.
To clarify, I looked up the screenshots from the times I actually did beat Jack. This shows me, clearly with Jack's debuff (I believe that's me on the left, but it's also visible in the Crew pane), with 2,050 Health - 1,000, plus Meat's 850, plus 200 Health worth of G'hi bonus - so I don't think Jack's attack carried a Health debuff at all. As far as I can tell, it didn't do much of anything beside the Speed debuff and the sprite swap, but it'd be awfully hard to verify that, now... whee
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:12 pm
Quintafeira12 Why a CC effect over Debuff? So it can miss and is unrelated to willpower? So it doesn't affect boss monsters. Also because debuff resistance won't necessarily work against such a small decrease, thus requiring more code.
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:22 pm
Weird... I clearly remember seeing pumpkin fluff'd players with reduced HP. But then again, these were people attending a Dev Meet. Which suggests a second version of Jack, summoned by the devs, which could debuff Max HP.
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