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 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:23 am
rmcdra Sounds like we have some common ground then biggrin There's more than a few reasons I like following gnostics around. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:00 pm
I think there will always be "fanatics" not matter what religion you are talking about. The unfortunate thing too, is that since they tend to be more vocal than others, it can often skew one's perception of the religion as a whole.
I frequent another site - where users can ask various questions and other users can give them answers and advice, and there are some people on there who truly drive me nuts because their answer to every is either bible related or God related (even for questions where a normal, straight-forward (non-religious) answer would be more appropriate). To someone who didn't know any better, it could definitely give the impression that all Christians are like that.
Having said that, I've seen some Neo-Pagans who are exactly the same way though, on some Pagan forums. Clearly they read a SRW book somewhere, and took it as gospel and are out preaching it loud and proud to anyone and everyone that will listen. The horrible thing is that some people do. gonk
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:20 am
Byaggha rmcdra So religious people don't really question anything that they believe most of the time? I dunno about anyone else here, but if I -don't- question things I read or hear in regards to my faith and its tenets, I'm probably doing it wrong. Faith for a Buddhist is something of an interesting thing - it's not simple surrender to the teachings, or words in a book. It's about getting out there, seeing for yourself, and really testing things out. Blind acceptance is something they're sort of...not fans of. Or that they're not supposed to be fans of. xd Taoism's much the same. I think anyone that took he words of the Tao te Ching of Chuang Tzu or I Ching literally would be laughed out of town, same to those that believe the Taoists do. Thing Buddhism and Taoism have in common, and probably the Vedic traditions as well is that any religious literature isn't meant to be an absolute statement of fact, rather they're supposed to point you in the right direction and you have to find truth for yourself. Part of that process is a rigid questioning of one's own thought process and structure but those 'truths' presented to you as well, which includes religious literature. Taoists are especially infamous for using paradox for just that reason. As Chuang Tzu said: "Words exist because of meaning;once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man whom has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?"
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:39 pm
Lateralus es Helica Byaggha rmcdra So religious people don't really question anything that they believe most of the time? I dunno about anyone else here, but if I -don't- question things I read or hear in regards to my faith and its tenets, I'm probably doing it wrong. Faith for a Buddhist is something of an interesting thing - it's not simple surrender to the teachings, or words in a book. It's about getting out there, seeing for yourself, and really testing things out. Blind acceptance is something they're sort of...not fans of. Or that they're not supposed to be fans of. xd Taoism's much the same. I think anyone that took he words of the Tao te Ching of Chuang Tzu or I Ching literally would be laughed out of town, same to those that believe the Taoists do. Thing Buddhism and Taoism have in common, and probably the Vedic traditions as well is that any religious literature isn't meant to be an absolute statement of fact, rather they're supposed to point you in the right direction and you have to find truth for yourself. Part of that process is a rigid questioning of one's own thought process and structure but those 'truths' presented to you as well, which includes religious literature. Taoists are especially infamous for using paradox for just that reason. As Chuang Tzu said: "Words exist because of meaning;once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man whom has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?" I laughed at that quote. I can easily say that that is wisdom beyond belief ......
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:24 pm
Tiina Brown Lateralus es Helica Byaggha rmcdra So religious people don't really question anything that they believe most of the time? I dunno about anyone else here, but if I -don't- question things I read or hear in regards to my faith and its tenets, I'm probably doing it wrong. Faith for a Buddhist is something of an interesting thing - it's not simple surrender to the teachings, or words in a book. It's about getting out there, seeing for yourself, and really testing things out. Blind acceptance is something they're sort of...not fans of. Or that they're not supposed to be fans of. xd Taoism's much the same. I think anyone that took he words of the Tao te Ching of Chuang Tzu or I Ching literally would be laughed out of town, same to those that believe the Taoists do. Thing Buddhism and Taoism have in common, and probably the Vedic traditions as well is that any religious literature isn't meant to be an absolute statement of fact, rather they're supposed to point you in the right direction and you have to find truth for yourself. Part of that process is a rigid questioning of one's own thought process and structure but those 'truths' presented to you as well, which includes religious literature. Taoists are especially infamous for using paradox for just that reason. As Chuang Tzu said: "Words exist because of meaning;once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man whom has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?" I laughed at that quote. I can easily say that that is wisdom beyond belief ...... Chuang Tzu is hilarious. Unlike most of the other philosophers of his time, part of his method included using jokes and humor to spread his message in addition to non-sensical stories. I think the thinking was that the great Confucian, Mohist, Legalist, etc. thinkers of the time were all too serious and full of themselves, they created lofty ideas and rigid rules and social structure whereas Taoism is about letting go. What better way to emphasize letting go and abandoning conventional thought and structure than by having a good laugh at it?
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:43 pm
Thank you everyone for explaining this thought I do feel the need to apologize for two things the first being I know when I wrote this I was a little annoyed (that’s why I should never post when I am annoyed) cause I had been trying to have a philosophical conversation with my mom and then also some other people and al I got was god this god that and I even brought up valid point but no they would not budge anyways that’s beside the point also sorry it took so long for me to reply to my own thread I had some stuff happening and I could not focus on anything
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:13 am
It's impossible to have any kind of debate with your parents. They usually feel they don't need to justify stuff to you, because you're a kid and you don't know stuff. They'll either be offended (usually mothers) or they'll mock you (usually fathers). I'm 22 and they still treat me as the kid that doesn't know anything. So I advise avoiding debates with parents. razz
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:56 pm
Artto It's impossible to have any kind of debate with your parents. They usually feel they don't need to justify stuff to you, because you're a kid and you don't know stuff. They'll either be offended (usually mothers) or they'll mock you (usually fathers). I'm 22 and they still treat me as the kid that doesn't know anything. So I advise avoiding debates with parents. razz I always got to hear "It's a phase..." although you'd think they'd give up after twenty years...
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:03 pm
Lateralus es Helica Taoists are especially infamous for using paradox for just that reason. As Chuang Tzu said: "Words exist because of meaning;once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man whom has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?" Ah, the fun philosophers. I still like what (some scholars think) happened when your people (Taoists) and mine (Buddhists) settled into a nice conversation and eventual discourse and doctrine swap. They gave birth. And it was called Chán. And a lot of people still don't understand a word that kid says. xd
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:50 am
Byaggha Lateralus es Helica Taoists are especially infamous for using paradox for just that reason. As Chuang Tzu said: "Words exist because of meaning;once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man whom has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?" Ah, the fun philosophers. I still like what (some scholars think) happened when your people (Taoists) and mine (Buddhists) settled into a nice conversation and eventual discourse and doctrine swap. They gave birth. And it was called Chán. And a lot of people still don't understand a word that kid says. xd Probably because they don't realize the kid plays with words on purpose, a trait inherited from it's Taoist parent.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:36 pm
Artto It's impossible to have any kind of debate with your parents. They usually feel they don't need to justify stuff to you, because you're a kid and you don't know stuff. They'll either be offended (usually mothers) or they'll mock you (usually fathers). I'm 22 and they still treat me as the kid that doesn't know anything. So I advise avoiding debates with parents. razz
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:52 pm
i do not agree that religious people are like this.
to me it is simply another stereotype.
is it true that all atheists are sophomoric braggarts who look down their noses at everyone else?
no.
thank God.
so please please let us not make such generalizations.
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:14 am
chessiejo i do not agree that religious people are like this. to me it is simply another stereotype. is it true that all atheists are sophomoric braggarts who look down their noses at everyone else? no. thank God. so please please let us not make such generalizations. Most people here are going off of experience, not making generalizations. I have experienced myself almost every one of these examples at least once.
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:28 pm
The way I see it, a religious person is someone who questions their faith but isn't so angsty that they desert it. Someone who has never questioned their faith is not religious, they are a fundamentalist. And that is one of my few prejudices: I cannot stand fundamentalists. So it's important to question your faith, but just because no one tells you in conversation "I'm not sure if I believe in all the dogma of my religion," it doesn't mean they don't question it or that they never have. It just means they're content to leave some questions unanswered.
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:49 pm
shanesmith0922 chessiejo i do not agree that religious people are like this. to me it is simply another stereotype. is it true that all atheists are sophomoric braggarts who look down their noses at everyone else? no. thank God. so please please let us not make such generalizations. Most people here are going off of experience, not making generalizations. I have experienced myself almost every one of these examples at least once. i have also experienced my negatives about atheists at least once per each negative! but to me this proves nothing. i will not hold one person responsible because someone with similar beliefs has offended me.
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