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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:10 pm
The rose in spring That is actually the dumbest ******** idea I had the displeasure of reading
Ending the sarcasm -original, I know~!- I think that there are some pros and cons, as well as maybe a bit more structured way of doing it. I believe every child should learn to read by a certain age, I believe that mathematics are another core thing that should be studied. It is one of those things that no child in their right mind is going to WANT to learn, so it's an unfortunate thing that may be forced. However, I think that we would be much better off if we taught languages at a younger age and then focused more on sciences at an older age. I apologize, but no first grader can truly wrap their mind around anything in a chemistry book, nor do they have a reason to. Teach them languages while they're young and they're basically little lingual sponges, and then move on to the things that require more critical thinking.
Of course I can see WHY the American school system wouldn't want to be teaching foreign languages to young children, seeing as that would break down language and ethnic barriers from the get go and make people more accepting of those different than themselves, but hey! Who's counting?
...yeah, I'm on the same page as Obscurus with the random ramblings.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:14 am
Suicidesoldier#1 So... unschooling is homeschooling? Cause to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what unschooling even is, or what you mean by it. xp While I believe that the public education system is ultimately flawed, I think that it's a great benefit for a child. But, then again, I live in Texas, and we have like the best public educational system. did you read any of the website that I posted in the very first post? >< or any of the comments comparing unschooling to homeschooling: it is slightly explained.. do you have reasons you think public education is a 'great benefit' for a child? Obscurus I just don't see kids really doing much of anything if they're told they can just play and do whatever they want and learn in their own time. That might be great for creativity, but that's not really a dominant virtue in our society. I think the children would be greatly disadvantaged in more than one way. hm.. well. for a short while, at times, it may SEEM like the child is doing NOTHING, but play IS something, as is everything else they decide to do. It should be up to them to shape their future though - of course the parent is to GUIDE them and give them options, and help them explore their own options.. The website really does answer so much on everyone's doubts.. I spent a long time reading the site and gained a lot from it that I didn't realize about teaching/learning.. I believe creativity IS important though.. And that children growing up watching their parents, and going about daily life, and getting to choose to do what they are interested in could be MUCH more beneficial than being stuck in school forced to learn exactly what is in front of you. There are many many many textbooks and learning books, and just plain books and other resources for homeschooled/unschooled kids.. and many programs at librarys, homeschool/unschool gatherings, etc etc.. Unschooling isn't feasible for every child just the same way public school isn't.. Being homeschooled and otherwise taught outside of regular schools, there are proficiency type tests to make sure you are up to date on needed skills. GED for example really.. But as I said, I know plenty of people who were homeschooled and went on to University and so on. magefeathers However, I think that we would be much better off if we taught languages at a younger age and then focused more on sciences at an older age. I apologize, but no first grader can truly wrap their mind around anything in a chemistry book, nor do they have a reason to. that's exactly it though, they don't have Reason to know it yet. Someone who wants to build a birdhouse but doesn't know how to work a hammer will figure it out pretty darn quickly if they need to. where as you could waste your time trying to cram knowledge of tools and useage down someones throat but them not even take in the information because they have no want to need for it at all. unschooling is that they learn when they need to learn it (within reason), unschooling parents and homeschooling parents are always finding awesome fun ways to teach and let their kids teach themselves... I DO however agree about the language being a great step... My daughter has been learning sign language since she was 11months old.. she's pretty awesome actually, probably around 300 signs now for random things/phrases and she's only 17 months now.. smile (of course every mother is going to say their child is awesome razz ) but yeah, learning more than one language (even signing! maybe more so too because it works on hand coordination as well!) is proven to increase IQ and all that jazz. signing is mainly just really fun and entertaining and EXTREMELY helpful because she could communicate so many things before she could actually vocalize them razz I'd like to incorporate french into her language as well very soon.. anyway. a little lengthy comment but whatever razz It's something very important to me at the moment as I try to determine which direction to go in for my family razz
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:48 am
Suicidesoldier#1 So... unschooling is homeschooling? Cause to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what unschooling even is, or what you mean by it. xp While I believe that the public education system is ultimately flawed, I think that it's a great benefit for a child. But, then again, I live in Texas, and we have like the best public educational system.
homeschooling uses time management and focuses on the main subjects to prepare them later for life.
Unschooling skips that, allows the kids to study what they'd like, but tries to gear interest towards those things. It's done at home usually though, so could be considered home schooling.
I believe a proper home school environment would use a combination of both methods.
Like myself, as a kid I'd love to read, write, etc. but I could never understand math one bit. My brain just couldn't process/comprehend it.
After studying logic on my own for a while when I was "home schooled", (Really, it was a form of unschooling), I wound up comparing written/spoken logic to a form that was represented by numbers, and it suddenly clicked. I can't rote memorize math like some other people can, I understood, I had to actually comprehend it.
In that way homeschooling/unschooling working together would have paid off. Learning LOGIC before math, because essentially math is just a bunch of symbolized logic puzzles.
Schools wouldn't even think to try that first. They'd just say it's because you 'didn't study enough'. hell, a lot of adult teachers didn't realize that there's a different way to doing math than just by memorizing times tables.
Unfortunately, schools bring the ability for children to socialize and play in some instances with their peers, or after school programs, which never seemed to happen for me when I got taken out. I would be very saddened if I missed parts of my childhood by being home schooled the way I was back in Kindergarten. It really does help to stage a socializing period in a child. Which also comes with the risk of bullying, as the child gets older. (I hated school a lot due to the verbal bullying, and the lack of freedom, and the whole way the schools were set up at times. Which made me in agreement to the idea of homeschooling at first. (("Get me out of here!")) I had some friends though, and in elementary school, I enjoyed the creativity of the different subjects.
If only you could be schooled in elementary, but taken out in middle school... But no, it doesn't work that way.
You still have a need to socialize and have a daily structured schedule.
And if you're being unschooled, you're not getting anywhere in 'grades' so if you wanted to go back, you'd have no idea WHERE you would be going.
(If you were unschooled grades 6-8, then wanted to go back, what grade would you go back into and how? Would you be just 14 in grade 6?)
In fact, I think it's illegal to just not do anything in terms of home schooling. (I.e unschooling) At least here. They were supposed to check up on 'progress' but never did.
And if you just decide to go into homeschooling during the highschool years, whether it's unschooling or homeschooling- again that begs the question of how you would earn college credits.
All in all, there are some people who home school and they wind up having really intelligent children, hell, they might go to college at the age of 16. They might have the ability to be structured, (As I believe it should be. Both kids and adults really do need structure in their lives.), socialize, and all of that, and it all turns out good.
But most people don't have that ability. They struggle to work, or they're disabled, or they just aren't structured in a single way their self. (Note: if you have a dysfunctional family while in school, you're going to have one homeschooled. It's NOT going to "bring everyone together".)
That's why I hate those people who say "Well, if I can home school, well then, anyone can! hyuck! "
honestly, I don't see where unschooling would be the proper thing to do, ever.
having to learn certain things can spark children to be more interested in those subjects over time. Reading, writing, and arithmetic is very important as well and shouldn't just be learned when a child wants. Think of all of the books they would might be missing if they didn't learn to read until they were 10 because they didn't 'really' want to before. They might resent you for not pushing them harder. Children can be fickle when it comes to stuff like that. And while I hate to admit it, they don't always know what's best for their future.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:38 am
Quite frankly I can say public school, homeschool, and even college is obsolete. We have the most powerful learning tool right in front of us while it still exists.
And go ahead and whine you can't function in society without that imaginary degree that boasts all you are capable of is falling in line. There is no gain from college and "Higher" education anymore; we have the internet! We can learn anything and everything. And if the difference is that piece of paper I say to hell with that piece of paper! My future is not determined by a dead tree!
I choose freedom over slavery!
I choose freedom over security!
I choose freedom over illusion!
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:03 am
Azkeel Quite frankly I can say public school, homeschool, and even college is obsolete. We have the most powerful learning tool right in front of us while it still exists. And go ahead and whine you can't function in society without that imaginary degree that boasts all you are capable of is falling in line. There is no gain from college and "Higher" education anymore; we have the internet! We can learn anything and everything. And if the difference is that piece of paper I say to hell with that piece of paper! My future is not determined by a dead tree! I choose freedom over slavery! I choose freedom over security! I choose freedom over illusion!
Sure, you'll say that until you're unable to find a job, become homeless or are not able to afford foods without the very additives we b***h about in this guild.
I'm just sayin'.
If you want a well paying job, you have to go to college or else it's an endless struggle.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:51 pm
ammaea Obscurus I just don't see kids really doing much of anything if they're told they can just play and do whatever they want and learn in their own time. That might be great for creativity, but that's not really a dominant virtue in our society. I think the children would be greatly disadvantaged in more than one way. hm.. well. for a short while, at times, it may SEEM like the child is doing NOTHING, but play IS something, as is everything else they decide to do. It should be up to them to shape their future though - of course the parent is to GUIDE them and give them options, and help them explore their own options.. The website really does answer so much on everyone's doubts.. I spent a long time reading the site and gained a lot from it that I didn't realize about teaching/learning.. I believe creativity IS important though.. And that children growing up watching their parents, and going about daily life, and getting to choose to do what they are interested in could be MUCH more beneficial than being stuck in school forced to learn exactly what is in front of you. There are many many many textbooks and learning books, and just plain books and other resources for homeschooled/unschooled kids.. and many programs at librarys, homeschool/unschool gatherings, etc etc.. Unschooling isn't feasible for every child just the same way public school isn't.. Being homeschooled and otherwise taught outside of regular schools, there are proficiency type tests to make sure you are up to date on needed skills. GED for example really.. But as I said, I know plenty of people who were homeschooled and went on to University and so on. I agree that children should be able to choose and that different systems of schooling are better suited to different kids. My main concern with this is just that kids that are "unschooled" end up with the same (or better) skills and opportunities as kids in the more conventional modes of education. I'm not against the idea. Sure, the best educated child may choose to do nothing but sell drugs after high school, but they had the opportunity to do more if they wanted. My concern would be that my child would be forced into a life they didn't want because the educational approach I chose for them wasn't adequate to advance them in our society. But, if everything was copacetic with the credentials then I don't really see how this is any different in quality than any other schooling. No doubt not every child is suited for it though.
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:10 am
my consern lies in federal mandates that say weither or not you can have a job or not like i own more books on nutrition then most college students have access to. yet for them memorizing how to use vitiman C with there paper they can reccomend it to people but yet i cannot with intent of medical usage?
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:03 am
Hoshioni my consern lies in federal mandates that say weither or not you can have a job or not like i own more books on nutrition then most college students have access to. yet for them memorizing how to use vitiman C with there paper they can reccomend it to people but yet i cannot with intent of medical usage?
how do they know you know without testing and certifying you?
Without cred from the fed, it's just a hobby unfortunately. Unless you're pursuing a creative art. You could write books on holistic nutrition, but there's always the chance that even then people won't listen unless you have a PhD tacked on the front. That's the kind of sheep most people are. "Doctors know everything! Not a doctor? how do I know it's true?"
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:10 am
Naynram Ukir Azkeel Quite frankly I can say public school, homeschool, and even college is obsolete. We have the most powerful learning tool right in front of us while it still exists. And go ahead and whine you can't function in society without that imaginary degree that boasts all you are capable of is falling in line. There is no gain from college and "Higher" education anymore; we have the internet! We can learn anything and everything. And if the difference is that piece of paper I say to hell with that piece of paper! My future is not determined by a dead tree! I choose freedom over slavery! I choose freedom over security! I choose freedom over illusion!
Sure, you'll say that until you're unable to find a job, become homeless or are not able to afford foods without the very additives we b***h about in this guild.
I'm just sayin'.
If you want a well paying job, you have to go to college or else it's an endless struggle.
It's an endless struggle anyways what's the difference? Would you rather have a redundant life going in circles? Do you even know yourself? I know myself, I'm going on the spiritual path. You're actually blinded if you belive you can't get anywhere without a piece of paper. Who said I'm going to live in America? I've been in EMS for four years in L.A. city. I also have proof of this, I can get on any fire dept or EMS field around the world. So I do have that backing. But I'd rather take the complete spiritual route. I actually know I can do anything I want. I actually have a choice.
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:14 am
Naynram Ukir Hoshioni my consern lies in federal mandates that say weither or not you can have a job or not like i own more books on nutrition then most college students have access to. yet for them memorizing how to use vitiman C with there paper they can reccomend it to people but yet i cannot with intent of medical usage?
how do they know you know without testing and certifying you?
Without cred from the fed, it's just a hobby unfortunately. Unless you're pursuing a creative art. You could write books on holistic nutrition, but there's always the chance that even then people won't listen unless you have a PhD tacked on the front. That's the kind of sheep most people are. "Doctors know everything! Not a doctor? how do I know it's true?"
Doctor's are just repeaters. They repeat what others tell them. Just like most everyone as you repeat you need paper to have a good life without struggle's. Did you learn this on your own or are you saying what others say? If you just say what others say you are not self-aware. Your experiances are the only thing that makes you. Not your clothes, not your money, not your education, not your social status, not your job. Only what you experiance creates who you are.
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:25 pm
Azkeel Naynram Ukir Azkeel Quite frankly I can say public school, homeschool, and even college is obsolete. We have the most powerful learning tool right in front of us while it still exists. And go ahead and whine you can't function in society without that imaginary degree that boasts all you are capable of is falling in line. There is no gain from college and "Higher" education anymore; we have the internet! We can learn anything and everything. And if the difference is that piece of paper I say to hell with that piece of paper! My future is not determined by a dead tree! I choose freedom over slavery! I choose freedom over security! I choose freedom over illusion!
Sure, you'll say that until you're unable to find a job, become homeless or are not able to afford foods without the very additives we b***h about in this guild.
I'm just sayin'.
If you want a well paying job, you have to go to college or else it's an endless struggle.
It's an endless struggle anyways what's the difference? Would you rather have a redundant life going in circles? Do you even know yourself? I know myself, I'm going on the spiritual path. You're actually blinded if you belive you can't get anywhere without a piece of paper. Who said I'm going to live in America? I've been in EMS for four years in L.A. city. I also have proof of this, I can get on any fire dept or EMS field around the world. So I do have that backing. But I'd rather take the complete spiritual route. I actually know I can do anything I want. I actually have a choice.
I know my spiritual self, thank you. I also know the physical world too.
Most high paying jobs are at the high up, where it requires you to have some kind of credentials.
I'm not saying to do everything for money, but if you want it, then that's what you do.
You certainly can't afford free range organic meat on a normal working man's salary.
It's not just America that's like this, it's everywhere.
What do you mean you'd rather "take the spiritual route"? You can have money to be content and a soul.
You have proof of being an EMS, and that is considered a credential, a technical 'piece of paper'. You have that freedom and choice, not every body does.
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:38 pm
Azkeel Naynram Ukir Hoshioni my consern lies in federal mandates that say weither or not you can have a job or not like i own more books on nutrition then most college students have access to. yet for them memorizing how to use vitiman C with there paper they can reccomend it to people but yet i cannot with intent of medical usage?
how do they know you know without testing and certifying you?
Without cred from the fed, it's just a hobby unfortunately. Unless you're pursuing a creative art. You could write books on holistic nutrition, but there's always the chance that even then people won't listen unless you have a PhD tacked on the front. That's the kind of sheep most people are. "Doctors know everything! Not a doctor? how do I know it's true?"
Doctor's are just repeaters. They repeat what others tell them. Just like most everyone as you repeat you need paper to have a good life without struggle's. Did you learn this on your own or are you saying what others say? If you just say what others say you are not self-aware. Your experiances are the only thing that makes you. Not your clothes, not your money, not your education, not your social status, not your job. Only what you experiance creates who you are.
But having a job, education, money, and social status create some experiences. =/
So does not having those things, or just sorta having those things.
Technically, everyone is a repeater based on their experiences of other peoples experiences. It's how humans work.
There are some unique experiences, but usually knowledge is passed one person to the next.
To say you need pieces of paper, or credentials, or backing, etc. I have learned that from my own experience of the knowledge that many people who do not have those do not get very far, and the fact that I can't seem to get even one job now with nearly no creds. Actually, even though I have a GED now, it's like it still counts for s**t all. If I hadn't gotten a "scholarship" for it and if I didn't plan on going to college one day, I would have considered it to be a waste of money. That's all a GED is; a pass to go to lower colleges to work yourself up from there. And even then you still need to pay for the whole shebang.
Which brings me back to the fact of homeschool vs highschool; I feel if I would have been able to go to a high school, study hard, take AP classes and extracurriculars, maybe even get a scholarship for COLLEGE, I would have been able to get a job more easily. Because like it or not, that's what the people hiring look for, anywhere. They will hire a person who worked hard in highschool, hell, even just stuck with it - vs a homeschooler/GED recipient in the bat of an eye.
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:20 am
Naynram Ukir Azkeel Naynram Ukir Hoshioni my consern lies in federal mandates that say weither or not you can have a job or not like i own more books on nutrition then most college students have access to. yet for them memorizing how to use vitiman C with there paper they can reccomend it to people but yet i cannot with intent of medical usage?
how do they know you know without testing and certifying you?
Without cred from the fed, it's just a hobby unfortunately. Unless you're pursuing a creative art. You could write books on holistic nutrition, but there's always the chance that even then people won't listen unless you have a PhD tacked on the front. That's the kind of sheep most people are. "Doctors know everything! Not a doctor? how do I know it's true?"
Doctor's are just repeaters. They repeat what others tell them. Just like most everyone as you repeat you need paper to have a good life without struggle's. Did you learn this on your own or are you saying what others say? If you just say what others say you are not self-aware. Your experiances are the only thing that makes you. Not your clothes, not your money, not your education, not your social status, not your job. Only what you experiance creates who you are.
But having a job, education, money, and social status create some experiences. =/
So does not having those things, or just sorta having those things.
Technically, everyone is a repeater based on their experiences of other peoples experiences. It's how humans work.
There are some unique experiences, but usually knowledge is passed one person to the next.
To say you need pieces of paper, or credentials, or backing, etc. I have learned that from my own experience of the knowledge that many people who do not have those do not get very far, and the fact that I can't seem to get even one job now with nearly no creds. Actually, even though I have a GED now, it's like it still counts for s**t all. If I hadn't gotten a "scholarship" for it and if I didn't plan on going to college one day, I would have considered it to be a waste of money. That's all a GED is; a pass to go to lower colleges to work yourself up from there. And even then you still need to pay for the whole shebang.
Which brings me back to the fact of homeschool vs highschool; I feel if I would have been able to go to a high school, study hard, take AP classes and extracurriculars, maybe even get a scholarship for COLLEGE, I would have been able to get a job more easily. Because like it or not, that's what the people hiring look for, anywhere. They will hire a person who worked hard in highschool, hell, even just stuck with it - vs a homeschooler/GED recipient in the bat of an eye.
It takes illusion to work for the illusion. I don't work for EMS anymore because it was morally compromising. Why would I let insurance compromise a persons care? I personally couldn't handle watching people essentially die at a hospital because of insurance reasons. And about this hire people thing. What jobs are there to be had? Service jobs are the only jobs out there and no one can live off of that. What happened to production? What happened to made in America? What happened to privatized small buisness? What jobs can you get with a higher education? Medical is one that I can think of. What does college actually offer?
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:24 am
Naynram Ukir Azkeel Naynram Ukir Azkeel Quite frankly I can say public school, homeschool, and even college is obsolete. We have the most powerful learning tool right in front of us while it still exists. And go ahead and whine you can't function in society without that imaginary degree that boasts all you are capable of is falling in line. There is no gain from college and "Higher" education anymore; we have the internet! We can learn anything and everything. And if the difference is that piece of paper I say to hell with that piece of paper! My future is not determined by a dead tree! I choose freedom over slavery! I choose freedom over security! I choose freedom over illusion!
Sure, you'll say that until you're unable to find a job, become homeless or are not able to afford foods without the very additives we b***h about in this guild.
I'm just sayin'.
If you want a well paying job, you have to go to college or else it's an endless struggle.
It's an endless struggle anyways what's the difference? Would you rather have a redundant life going in circles? Do you even know yourself? I know myself, I'm going on the spiritual path. You're actually blinded if you belive you can't get anywhere without a piece of paper. Who said I'm going to live in America? I've been in EMS for four years in L.A. city. I also have proof of this, I can get on any fire dept or EMS field around the world. So I do have that backing. But I'd rather take the complete spiritual route. I actually know I can do anything I want. I actually have a choice.
I know my spiritual self, thank you. I also know the physical world too.
Most high paying jobs are at the high up, where it requires you to have some kind of credentials.
I'm not saying to do everything for money, but if you want it, then that's what you do.
You certainly can't afford free range organic meat on a normal working man's salary.
It's not just America that's like this, it's everywhere.
What do you mean you'd rather "take the spiritual route"? You can have money to be content and a soul.
You have proof of being an EMS, and that is considered a credential, a technical 'piece of paper'. You have that freedom and choice, not every body does.
What I mean by spiritual route is I'm probably going to do volunteer work at an orphanage just for food and shelter. So essentially mission trips. It doesn't cost money or require money to live with a tribe in Africa either.
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:17 am
Not everyone can just up and leave the country to do missionary work, nor is that the only spiritual thing a person can do.
Some people have their families to support.
I'm not saying college is the best choice for people who don't need it but my main point was was that a person with JUST a GED who is having trouble getting hired by even as simple of a place like Dollar General to SUPPORT theirself or their family to LIVE it would probably be of benefit to go to college after getting said "diploma".
My family might be out of a house this coming Summer if I don't get a job by then. But GED recipients are bottom of the barrel, dime a dozen. =/
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