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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:21 am
On the subject of hierarchy:
I believe the richest should control the underground, with a few powerful allies. In this case, I'm thinking dwarves. Not only would dwarves be rich, but also good war tacticians. Drow could come in a close second, not because of their riches, but the way their society works (power, power, power). They and the dwarves, may not actually be allies, but stand on neutral grounds and do trades, because both sides realise that a war between them would weaken them down for other, more dangerous foes, like Illithids.
On the subject of skin:
I have always believed that elves, like humans should come in all contrasts. None of us might play them here, but I don't think we should restrict their appearance to staying only as "fair skinned". Also, I strongly encourage adding more unusual colours to their natural appearance, depending on their natural habitat. Such colours like green, blue, purple or even hues of red.
And since I see some of you want to further them away from humans more, here are a few other suggestions.
Slightly changing their skeletons and organs. For example, their skull could be a bit more elongated, and less ape-like. Or having straight teeth, as in no canines. Long, slender fingers. No body hair, or just very soft and thin, barely visible. Large, shining eyes, reflecting light like a feline's, meaning they might have a protective layer over them.
Those are just a few ideas.
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:31 am
On the subject of offspring:
Humans being the most flexible species in all fantasy, I suggest that mixed species can only happen with humans. So, if an elf of any race decides to mate with a human, they will successfully have an offspring. However, if an elf decides to mate with a dwarf, no children will be conceived.
Opinions?
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:49 am
I'll have to side with Aglo on the side of hierarchy here, of all the races dwarves and drow isn't such an unlikely pair of neutrals. Though the illithids aren't one of the biggest threats around, I do recognize them as a force for this discussion.
Going with the offspring, I'll have to say that it is a bit unfair to say that only humans are truly versatile enough to properly crossbreed with other species. Though it is highly unlikely that a elf and dwarf might mate, it is not impossible. And thus it should not be impossible for them to produce children. Though I do think they wouldn't be proper half-elves, instead they would have the genetics but due to the differences between the two races they would simply bare similarities to the other race by attitude and minor cosmetic differences. Such as a dwarven half-elf having blond hair, preferring music to mining, and other such small things. Or in the opposite a elven half-dwarf preferring living beneath the ground, having coarse hair, and appreciating stonework over nature.
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:46 pm
The reason I'm saying that, is because this is different species we're talking about.
Like trying to mate a moose and a deer. Even though they may look pretty similar, they're still not the same.
But if this idea is not favourable. I suggest then lowering the chances of successfully having a healthy offspring between different species. Low chance of pregnancy in the first place, and then a pretty slim chance of said offspring being completely healthy.
Common problems of mixed species could include blindness, albinism, low immunity system, etc.
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:34 pm
I rather like to think of humans, elves, dwarves and halflings as various sub-species/races/breeds of homo sapiens in the same way cro-magnon man and neanderthal man may have been related. It's not actually even known whether neanderthalls and cromagnans could interbreed but some (including myself) believe they were not gentically exclusive of each other.
I believe the possibility should exist for these three fantasy races to be genetically cohesive as well (though it might be a bit of a stretch in the same way it's stretching the connection between neanderthalls and cro-magnons).
I do think however, the difference between a goblinoid and a human-like critter is as far separated as a human and a chimpanzee... far too distant genetically to produce viable offspring, unless direct magical influences are brought to bear (such as is the case with a dragon in human form breeding with a human or a demon mating with... anything). In these cases, the magic of the extraordinary parent merely alters the genetic structure of the offspring which are copied in large part from the "normal" parent.
While Aglo's idea of making elves even more biologically divergent from humans is an interesting one, I don't believe that elves should be moved into a separate species for our puposes here. I believe that magic should be part of the reasoning for elven physiology and not just genetics so that we don't have to get too deep into a discussion of heritable traits and genetic chemistry. Again, this is just my opinion here and I will not argue too hard to protect this stance.
Power... hmmm. If there are no dwarves present to claim power over an area, then drow probably aren't going to worry about discussing how to neutrally solve problems with them.
I think political issues, and power issues, can be roleplayed out as needed, and probably aren't going to be inscribed as hard fast rules. Certainly, we can say, "drow are typically ruthless" and "dwarves are typically tactically minded" but each group of players directing a populations interractions can decide for themselves how they want to play that out specific to their own circumstances.
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:36 pm
Aglo I On the subject of skin:
I have always believed that elves, like humans should come in all contrasts. None of us might play them here, but I don't think we should restrict their appearance to staying only as "fair skinned". Also, I strongly encourage adding more unusual colours to their natural appearance, depending on their natural habitat. Such colours like green, blue, purple or even hues of red.
And since I see some of you want to further them away from humans more, here are a few other suggestions.
Slightly changing their skeletons and organs. For example, their skull could be a bit more elongated, and less ape-like. Or having straight teeth, as in no canines. Long, slender fingers. No body hair, or just very soft and thin, barely visible. Large, shining eyes, reflecting light like a feline's, meaning they might have a protective layer over them.
Those are just a few ideas.For skin, and this is talking elves, don't they already have a range of skin? Differing on species. Which humans do too. The English don't have naturally occuring dark skin, it's only through procreating with a different race, such as African American, that they produce a darker skinned offspring. Idk, redundant statement is redundant, I just thought that was already the case. However, having a larger range of "unusual" skin colours would deffs be cool. I also like this change in their anatomy, especially if you consider that elves didn't evolve, as humans did, so there is no reason for them to be so closely styled like them. Aglo I The reason I'm saying that, is because this is different species we're talking about.
Like trying to mate a moose and a deer. Even though they may look pretty similar, they're still not the same.
But if this idea is not favourable. I suggest then lowering the chances of successfully having a healthy offspring between different species. Low chance of pregnancy in the first place, and then a pretty slim chance of said offspring being completely healthy.
Common problems of mixed species could include blindness, albinism, low immunity system, etc.I second that humans should be the only ones allowing half-breeds, and even then I think we should apply this low chance of successful, healthy offspring. Because I want a retarded half-elf character? Not at all! But no, seriously, idk, it seems like the humans are the only species that evolved, and all the rest were made exactly as their respective Gods made them - which makes them both superior and inferior, which is kinda cool if you go into deeper thought on the matter. It means that they may currently be at a level where they are superior in terms of skill and even technology over humans, but because it isn't in their make up to change and adapt, as it is with humans, it explains why these longer-lived races are less suited to change, and far less adaptable to changing environments and social and political situations. Er. /tangent I just mean, we could apply this idea of humans, being fundamentally different in their progression, in their being able to cross-breed. Also, let's face it. The world could do without as many half-breeds.
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:57 pm
I'm with Phren on this one. Humans being the last species launched into the world, that basically was just let to roam free and evolve. Whereas all others were created by the gods. So they all may look somewhat similar, but in reality are very different. At least, I assume the humans are the youngest of the humanoid inhabitants?
Also, what HAVE we decided on so far?
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:08 pm
Not sure that anything has been decided yet. confused
I think a lot hinges on one all important question (in my opinion). Is UnderGaia really located beneath the world and towns of regular Gaia?
If so, then I think serious RP cannot be applied to UnderGaia at all... because any reference to Barton just turns it into chibi anime silliness (which doesn't bother me at all as that was how I envisioned UG in the begining, but...), if you want UG to have even semi-serious RP, I think you should destroy any connection to Gaia world and just make a new one (or if you want to actually use Faerun, then just turn this into a Forgotten Realms guild and use that source entirely for all canon).
I prefer chibi-anime drow and UnderGaia as an extension of Barton Town style RP with an edge. I'm definitely the minority on this I know, ha.
But, I bring this up to make you guys aware... and if you want to be SRS BZNS, you should get rid of Barton, Duren, and the rest.
Then you can really get down the business of deciding what's what, based on a SRS BZNS world, or an anime-chibi silly world.
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:15 pm
my vote is for the serious stuff i have always looked at this and have tried to RP accordingly and yeah although i think the name can stay the connection should be cut off
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:28 pm
I don't think if we wanted to be silly, we would be having this discussion now.
UnderGaia, from what I noticed, has always attempted to be at least somewhat serious in its world and plot.
I don't really roleplay here, but I still feel an attachment to this place, and feel it doesn't relate to any silly, as you put it - chibi, themes.
We even brought up the subject of making our own forum some time ago. But after a bit of brainstorming, we decided that it would make us even less reachable to potential members and thus might lead to a complete stop and death of UG.
Gaia is our curse and blessing.
So I suggest that yes, we do build our own canon with heavy referencing, but that doesn't mean we can't stay UnderGaia. As Gaia itself is highly undefined, just by looking at this summer's event. Barton, Durem, Gambino and Aekea are only a small part of this virtual world. There's plenty of room for us here as well wink
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:35 pm
I'm agreeing with the serious concepts here, I like the name UnderGaia and think it should stay, but as dot hack suggested; the rest needs cut off. Everyone at least makes the attempt to be serious in the various plots and stories of our little world. As Aglo said as well, there is a lot of world that doesn't really come into any attention in Gaia, UnderGaia could actually be beneath another continent altogether, in which case we could strike out the references to Barton and the like without much consequence.
As for humans being last, that was never really cemented in any part of D&D as every 'canon' source said something different. I'm not sure how everyone else will take this, but I am going to take a hint from one of the sourcebooks I read (I believe it to be the BoVD, but I am not totally sure and will look for it in my spare time). The book stated that humans have so many traits and adaptability because they were indeed, last to the table. All the gods used a mold to create their races, the mold changed as each deity used it to make their ideal race. Eventually the mold fell to the material plane when one of the deities accidentally dropped it. The mold landed in soft clay and when the clumsy deity pulled it out the first human was born. The human had traits from all the other races and as such could become anything it wanted to be. This roughly details why humans are so ultimately adaptable and able to breed so freely with positive results. If my memory isn't too bad the races were created in the following order and thereby closest relatives: Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, and then Humans being the culmination.
Going onto my own tangent idea here... Going by this particular creation theory, it would be fairly possible for a elf and halfling to breed but a elf and orc have virtually no chance whatsoever (aside from the 1 in 1 million of course).
Sorry if any of that turned redundant...
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:51 pm
As I suspected, I am the only one who supports the idea of silliness. That's ok, I didn't expect to win that one, haha.
So, I think then that everyone agrees that UnderGaia should attempt to be and remain serious. I don't think anything but the guildname itself should be called UnderGAIA though and the world itself in my opinion should either remain unnamed or given a new name other than Gaia. The reason to remove the reference? Because it bothers me to think that while serious drow are making serious sacrifices to serious Lolth, somewhere on the same world, a floating jellyfish demi-god drifts high above a talking cat and a vampire teenager who runs a boutique in a town called Barton; a world where Santa exists, and is supremely incompetant, and surface elves are relegated to helping him find his lost items.
To me, the very notion of seriousness anywhere in such a world (or such a universe for that matter) would be sucked out and not even Lolth herself could stop the power of Lanzer from anime-izing all that is held dear by "serious" drow fans into chibi chunks of nonsense. xp
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:30 pm
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison So, I think then that everyone agrees that UnderGaia should attempt to be and remain serious. I don't think anything but the guildname itself should be called Under GAIA though and the world itself in my opinion should either remain unnamed or given a new name other than Gaia. The reason to remove the reference? Because it bothers me to think that while serious drow are making serious sacrifices to serious Lolth, somewhere on the same world, a floating jellyfish demi-god drifts high above a talking cat and a vampire teenager who runs a boutique in a town called Barton; a world where Santa exists, and is supremely incompetant, and surface elves are relegated to helping him find his lost items. Yup...SRS UG IZ SRS! I also agree that (for now, at least) we should leave the world itself nameless. After all, why should the subterranean denizens of the world concern themselves with what the surface dwellers call the planet.
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:08 pm
Veldrin the Shadow After all, why should the subterranean denizens of the world concern themselves with what the surface dwellers call the planet.  TRUFAX
On topic: If you suggest on changing the guild's name I wish to object. The universe/world/whatever can be renamed, but I wish the guild's name to be left unharmed. Anything else I'm okay with.
For the time being, I also suggest keeping the cities we have now. I'm not saying more couldn't exist, but we don't need forums for them. And let's just assume they're smaller cities than the ones we have now, and obviously,of less importance.
Have we settled on who's in charge of the subterranean world? Because I want to move to the idea of what somewhat intelligent species we have living there and their behaviour towards one another.
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:20 pm
I believe he stated explicitly that the guild name should be the only remaining reference to Gaia. I think it's safe to say that none of us have any intention of changing the name of the guild.
As far as race relations go...I don't think we've gotten around to that part yet.
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