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 Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:22 pm
Michael Noire Obscurus The Darth Vizzle summed up my intentions perfectly. I'm trying to provide a kind of "rock and hard place" in order to make people think about something that most take for granted. Michael Noire, please don't assume so much about me. I am not a materialist. I acknowledge materialism but I also acknowledge what's beyond our current understanding. I chose to withhold my own personal viewpoint on the matter so as not to influence the responses. Hoshioni, I think you're looking at science as some kind of established orthodoxy (which, I admit, mainstream science seems to be). I look at science in the purest sense; it is a tool for exploration and understanding. Science is not a supreme arbiter or what is and what is not, or what can be. It is just a tool. biggrin Apologies on the knee jerk reaction to some of the statements. I've got an existentialist class this quarter and its grating on my nerves. Let me quote from this week's assigned reading... Selected highlights from page 349: Quote: we mean only that God does not exist (line #1) Abolish God with the least possible expense (line #3) God is useless (line #5) God does not exist (line #14) God does not exist (line #16) God is an outdated hypothesis (line #18 ) God does not exist (line #21) God didn't exist (line #27) God does not exist (line #29) God does not exist (line #35) Incidentally, the topic is supposed to be Free Will... rolleyes No worries. Does anyone ever offer any evidence to support those statement? LOL
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:26 pm
Cain Elite What if our free will is a result of our inner self within our mind? That would makes everything we do still a result of free will but not "this" self, but rather thine "true" self. This could be the case. How many layers of self do we have though? Is there a self calling the shots for the "true" self as well?
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:33 pm
The True Prince So, let me see. This topic about asking on the opinion of "Free Will"? I've read all the responses and if i'm understanding. Obscurus, you implying that has a possibility that "Free will" doesn't exist and our thoughts, actions, and emotions are from something, like energy based down to atoms or particles. That "THAT" is want controls us and that we have no control of our actions, even with the fact of knowing what you want to do. Right? I'm saying that the scientific evidence is stacked against free will. If free will exists then it must be something that might be considered "supernatural" or in the very least comes from something unidentifiable. I'm presenting a kind of paradox to make people think. Especially people that are "rational skeptics". I, personally, don't think that science tells the whole story. I don't know if we have literal free will, but I think we have some say in the things that go on even though we might be guided by a larger "hand of destiny."
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:42 pm
Obscurus I don't know if we have literal free will, but I think we have some say in the things that go on even though we might be guided by a larger "hand of destiny." Kind of like I can lift my arm, but a certain "hand of fate" has already predetermined that a limb on my body would've moved regardless? That's interesting, if that is indeed what you're, loosely or not, implying. I enjoy this discussion and wish I was far more learned on it. I do, however, have my opinions...
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:52 pm
Obscurus Cain Elite What if our free will is a result of our inner self within our mind? That would makes everything we do still a result of free will but not "this" self, but rather thine "true" self. This could be the case. How many layers of self do we have though? Is there a self calling the shots for the "true" self as well? Possibly. The human form is the most complex of all forms. We are the only species that has begun to study others using incredible sciences and processes that no other beings "seem" capable of. We could be all the product of one greater "true" self or the spawn of that greater power that still oversees our actions. This greater form would be the closest thing to God we have and are. Humans are amazing and smart despite how dull and retarded we become sometimes. Maybe is you research for the existence of an inner self of greater power, you might find some interesting things giving you the information needed to manipulate that true self into doing incredible feats. Maybe this is the truth behind mental and physic powers. Maybe they are merely the pure will of that true self. Too many "maybe"s, not enough "for sure"s. I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:05 pm
Carcass Of The Saint Obscurus I don't know if we have literal free will, but I think we have some say in the things that go on even though we might be guided by a larger "hand of destiny." Kind of like I can lift my arm, but a certain "hand of fate" has already predetermined that a limb on my body would've moved regardless? That's interesting, if that is indeed what you're, loosely or not, implying. I enjoy this discussion and wish I was far more learned on it. I do, however, have my opinions... More like... You're predestined to go to a particular place. It doesn't matter if you take the right road or the left road, or you turn around and go home. Eventually you're going to end up at that particular place because it's been predestined for you to be there at the time you're supposed to be there, regardless of what kind of "free will" actions you might make.
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:06 pm
Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite What if our free will is a result of our inner self within our mind? That would makes everything we do still a result of free will but not "this" self, but rather thine "true" self. This could be the case. How many layers of self do we have though? Is there a self calling the shots for the "true" self as well? Possibly. The human form is the most complex of all forms. We are the only species that has begun to study others using incredible sciences and processes that no other beings "seem" capable of. We could be all the product of one greater "true" self or the spawn of that greater power that still oversees our actions. This greater form would be the closest thing to God we have and are. Humans are amazing and smart despite how dull and retarded we become sometimes. Maybe is you research for the existence of an inner self of greater power, you might find some interesting things giving you the information needed to manipulate that true self into doing incredible feats. Maybe this is the truth behind mental and physic powers. Maybe they are merely the pure will of that true self. Too many "maybe"s, not enough "for sure"s. I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja Who doesn't want psionic powers? lol
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:28 am
Obscurus Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite What if our free will is a result of our inner self within our mind? That would makes everything we do still a result of free will but not "this" self, but rather thine "true" self. This could be the case. How many layers of self do we have though? Is there a self calling the shots for the "true" self as well? Possibly. The human form is the most complex of all forms. We are the only species that has begun to study others using incredible sciences and processes that no other beings "seem" capable of. We could be all the product of one greater "true" self or the spawn of that greater power that still oversees our actions. This greater form would be the closest thing to God we have and are. Humans are amazing and smart despite how dull and retarded we become sometimes. Maybe is you research for the existence of an inner self of greater power, you might find some interesting things giving you the information needed to manipulate that true self into doing incredible feats. Maybe this is the truth behind mental and physic powers. Maybe they are merely the pure will of that true self. Too many "maybe"s, not enough "for sure"s. I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja Who doesn't want psionic powers? lol It's becoming a fad now. I just hope we reach them first before the fad runs out.
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:09 pm
Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite What if our free will is a result of our inner self within our mind? That would makes everything we do still a result of free will but not "this" self, but rather thine "true" self. This could be the case. How many layers of self do we have though? Is there a self calling the shots for the "true" self as well? Possibly. The human form is the most complex of all forms. We are the only species that has begun to study others using incredible sciences and processes that no other beings "seem" capable of. We could be all the product of one greater "true" self or the spawn of that greater power that still oversees our actions. This greater form would be the closest thing to God we have and are. Humans are amazing and smart despite how dull and retarded we become sometimes. Maybe is you research for the existence of an inner self of greater power, you might find some interesting things giving you the information needed to manipulate that true self into doing incredible feats. Maybe this is the truth behind mental and physic powers. Maybe they are merely the pure will of that true self. Too many "maybe"s, not enough "for sure"s. I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja Who doesn't want psionic powers? lol It's becoming a fad now. I just hope we reach them first before the fad runs out. It is? Can you give me an example?
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:14 pm
Cain Elite I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja Agreed.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:33 am
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:59 pm
Obscurus Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite What if our free will is a result of our inner self within our mind? That would makes everything we do still a result of free will but not "this" self, but rather thine "true" self. This could be the case. How many layers of self do we have though? Is there a self calling the shots for the "true" self as well? Possibly. The human form is the most complex of all forms. We are the only species that has begun to study others using incredible sciences and processes that no other beings "seem" capable of. We could be all the product of one greater "true" self or the spawn of that greater power that still oversees our actions. This greater form would be the closest thing to God we have and are. Humans are amazing and smart despite how dull and retarded we become sometimes. Maybe is you research for the existence of an inner self of greater power, you might find some interesting things giving you the information needed to manipulate that true self into doing incredible feats. Maybe this is the truth behind mental and physic powers. Maybe they are merely the pure will of that true self. Too many "maybe"s, not enough "for sure"s. I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja Who doesn't want psionic powers? lol It's becoming a fad now. I just hope we reach them first before the fad runs out. It is? Can you give me an example? Examples would be all the most recent action games and action movies. Almost every single one has some sort of physic this or psionic that. Like Scott Pilgrim, Push, Oblivion, and that new movie with Matt Daimon.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:41 pm
Obscurus The True Prince So, let me see. This topic about asking on the opinion of "Free Will"? I've read all the responses and if i'm understanding. Obscurus, you implying that has a possibility that "Free will" doesn't exist and our thoughts, actions, and emotions are from something, like energy based down to atoms or particles. That "THAT" is want controls us and that we have no control of our actions, even with the fact of knowing what you want to do. Right? I'm saying that the scientific evidence is stacked against free will. If free will exists then it must be something that might be considered "supernatural" or in the very least comes from something unidentifiable. I'm presenting a kind of paradox to make people think. Especially people that are "rational skeptics". I, personally, don't think that science tells the whole story. I don't know if we have literal free will, but I think we have some say in the things that go on even though we might be guided by a larger "hand of destiny." So this is a question about what is "what". Correct? Other then that, i understand what you mean and i agree.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:55 pm
Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite Obscurus Cain Elite Possibly. The human form is the most complex of all forms. We are the only species that has begun to study others using incredible sciences and processes that no other beings "seem" capable of. We could be all the product of one greater "true" self or the spawn of that greater power that still oversees our actions. This greater form would be the closest thing to God we have and are. Humans are amazing and smart despite how dull and retarded we become sometimes. Maybe is you research for the existence of an inner self of greater power, you might find some interesting things giving you the information needed to manipulate that true self into doing incredible feats. Maybe this is the truth behind mental and physic powers. Maybe they are merely the pure will of that true self. Too many "maybe"s, not enough "for sure"s. I think I want a true self now...and psionic powers. ninja Who doesn't want psionic powers? lol It's becoming a fad now. I just hope we reach them first before the fad runs out. It is? Can you give me an example? Examples would be all the most recent action games and action movies. Almost every single one has some sort of physic this or psionic that. Like Scott Pilgrim, Push, Oblivion, and that new movie with Matt Daimon. Movies and games featuring those things don't really seem to me to be any more common than they were five or even ten years ago.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:01 pm
The True Prince Obscurus The True Prince So, let me see. This topic about asking on the opinion of "Free Will"? I've read all the responses and if i'm understanding. Obscurus, you implying that has a possibility that "Free will" doesn't exist and our thoughts, actions, and emotions are from something, like energy based down to atoms or particles. That "THAT" is want controls us and that we have no control of our actions, even with the fact of knowing what you want to do. Right? I'm saying that the scientific evidence is stacked against free will. If free will exists then it must be something that might be considered "supernatural" or in the very least comes from something unidentifiable. I'm presenting a kind of paradox to make people think. Especially people that are "rational skeptics". I, personally, don't think that science tells the whole story. I don't know if we have literal free will, but I think we have some say in the things that go on even though we might be guided by a larger "hand of destiny." So this is a question about what is "what". Correct? Other then that, i understand what you mean and i agree. I meant this to be a kind of challenge of beliefs. You either have to accept that you probably don't have free will or you have to accept that science cannot tell us everything. I have my own ideas but I'm not trying to dictate to anyone what is actually correct. It could be a question about what is the driving force though: do we have free will to act on our own volition or have our thoughts, movements, actions, etc. been determined since the beginning of the universe or at least from the beginning of our biological chemistry starting at the moment of life? Or is it something in-between?
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