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Why stop at cells? What about viruses? DNA? Amino acids? Where do you draw the line? As far as we can tell, it's all just machinery, physics. Why the need for a soul, what does it explain that cannot be explained by physics?

Then what do you propose? Make up some random story on how souls work and how they exist? We need to have something to work off of and even if we HAVEN'T shedded all the light on souls, if they exist, that doesn't mean we can't in the future.

Because I think people should care if their beliefs make sense. I think my question was perfectly valid. Or are you suggesting that we shouldn't think too much about what we believe?


What? Infinity is a mathematical concept, like imaginary numbers. You don't need proof for concepts such as infinity, since it doesn't acutally exist. That's like demanding that I prove that the letter A exists.



You can't judge the percentage of things that are still undiscovered, no one can. We do, however, know quite a lot.



The laws of physics don't "explain away" the possibility of a soul. Physics isn't concerned with the soul, since it's (presumably) not a physical concept. I merely stated that there is no reason to posit the existence of a soul.

The thing is, when it comes to Faith, not everything is gonna make sense to everyone. Yeah, we should be concerned about making sense, but when we "draw the line" when considering what is possible, we essentially limit the scope of how far we can think. I honestly believe that so many people having "drawn the line" has given rise to the intolerance between religions, and limited our understanding of what and who the Higher Power is.

When we talk of religion, faith, and belief, we aren't talking absolutes, although some people believe we are. No one can completely understand or comprehend all that the spiritual realm and our Creator encompass, thus we can't lock the door and throw away the key on any topic, yet we are able to have our personal and individual thoughts and beliefs. That is the major difference of Science and religion.


...And souls are concepts of faith, like God and spirits. We don't need proof to believe in them since it can't be proven that they don't exist. That's like demanding that I prove the letter A doesn't exist.


The idea that we rely on physics as an end-all to spiritual debate is a bit meager. Allot of people turn to Science and math to prove, or disprove, or compare with religion. The ways of thinking are opposite though, thus it is tiring. Religion is about lessons, morals, hope, and faith; not Science, Math, History, and proven fact.

Given the fact that we are just a the beginnings of understanding what is beyond our tiny planet, and we are just now breaking grounds in the areas of understanding the brain and it's functioning, it is kinda early to be drawing conclusions about the soul and it's relation to Physics. I am sure that one day Physics' and Spirituality's paths will cross, and that is going to be pretty interesting. I hope I am around to see it, but I still think it's a long way getting there.


If there is no reason to posit the existence of a soul then there is no reason to posit the existence of anything...

OK, that is taking it far, I know.

The thing is, just because the existence of a soul doesn't mean anything to you, doesn't mean that it is not worth the second thought of other people. Where would we be if people didn't imagine the possibility of things so small we couldn't comprehend. We never would have learned of bacteria, viruses, pollen, DNA, the atom, and sub-atomic particles.

The thought of God, and something beyond has powered humanity's drive to look beyond ourselves and beyond our planet for possibilities. Think of religion as humanity's way of thinking and imagining beyond possibility, and then think of Science as the way to bring it all back into perspective. Then encourage others in the consideration of things you can't fathom so you can pull it all back into perspective.

People had to suspect and theorize they were there before they set out to look for them. People didn' just decide that there were bacteria one day, and set out to find them. It started with a general thought, "Hey, what if there is something that is so small the human eyes can't see it?" Then other people would start to wonder. Then after it was proven that there were microscopic organisms and particles, some people were content to leave it as, "Hey it's proven," Others wanted to look farther. Each time there were people saying, "It can't be proven, you are wasting time," but each time people were tenacious enough to keep believing and continue looking for answers, answers were found.

Now many people look "beyond" for answers with faith that they can prove things to themselves. They don't need Science to tell them one way or another... like souls. You don't have to believe in them if you can't. That's up to you. If you can't believe in them at all, then your specific question sounds like a very generalized one to me. Science is about finding the line and setting the boundaries of existence, faith and religion is about passing those boundaries.

I am sorry, but an answer about drawing the line at who and what has a soul is probably going to be different for every person who answers the question. It sounds to me that Twi believes that energy that makes up matter is the essence of the soul, (Please correct me if I am wrong Twi). I draw the line at organism who exhibit free-will and emotions. Others will tell you that only humanity has a soul. There isn't a set line to draw.

There was a difference between that and religion. With the people looking for bacteria, the idea actually SPRUNG from something, it wasn't just a random thought. The idea came with human behavior, colds, etc...
Anyway, people kept looking into it to see how it would work and BAM, they had evidence. Now that they found bacteria, they wanted to learn more about it. The continuing of their research was for the fact that there COULD have been more. The reason they didn't draw the line was because they weren't exactly looking for just bacteria, scientists don't do that. When the atom was first discovered by Democritus, he wasn't just trying to say it exists and drop it there, he wanted to actually LEARN about it. Point is, when someone draws the line, it's not because they think their done, it's because they are PRETTY sure they are done. The reason I state this is because in religion, you can't look for answers because there are none as the belief states. You can't prove anything. Because of this, a line HAS to be drawn.

I have a friend who has beliefs that make sense to him, and he's considered legally insane and a schizophrenic. I don't see why people would want to believe in something they know not much about but go along with it. It just doesn't make sense to me. Then again, they aren't me, so I really don't mind. It just makes me wonder, though, how people believe in something that sounds unbelievable and unprovable.

There actually kind of IS a set line to a soul. Mostly because you have to describe what a soul exactly is. For example, Blue said that a Soul gives us the power to dream and think for ourselves. However, why are we the only ones to have it then? There can be so many rules and exceptions to the rules about the soul that it doesn't even seem possible. I like Artto's idea, though. I don't see how an atom, protons and electrons, or even quarks could even have a soul.

Spirit is the flow beyond energy that gives "movement" to all things. So things like rocks have "spirits", indeed, but not individual spirits. It is the same spirit that flows through everything- It is the living essence. Every atom is "moved" or "vitalized" by spirit.

now, you say that with authority, Seraph, but realy, it's up to interpretation.

honetsly, i think that it is possible that either the Spirit will stay in one section of the now split rock, while the other remains empty. or perhaps, the empty rock eventually gains a Spirit of it's own.

but in a way i'd say Seraph's idea fits in with mine, because in order for this new Spirit to form, it must be absorbed and integrated from the Source/Flow of energy into the Rock's Chi.