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 Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:56 am
Shard Aerliss FreeArsenal But who's actions started the life of the fetus? When you start something are you not responsible for it whether it is dead or living? Maybe you can say it's not a person, and it's inhuman, and it doesn't deserve to live because it is in my body... but with actions comes responsibility. If you abort the fetus to kill it, you should at least bear with the responsibility knowing you destroyed a life, potential or actual person does not matter, it is LIFE. So you're a vegan too right? you don't squish bugs, or ride in/drive a car, or use soap or drugs that were tested on animals... Humans wipe out "life" all the time, I'm killing living things right now with my immune system. As I equate a foetus with anything else living but non-sentient I give it the same rights as anything else living but non-sentient. I have no problem with killing animals for food, I have no problem with killing animals in the name of science ((though I do give a big damn about how these creatures live and die...)). So why should I have a problem with aborting something which would not even feel pain if it occured? Also, I accept aborting is taking "life." So is that OK? I'm bearing that knowledge. As for who's actions started the life, well just maybe they weren't mine... Anyway...back to the argument at hand... Vegan? I would be if those tractors didn't kill so many animals while harvesting the soy. More wild and free animals are killed when you harvest soy than when raised as meet, because animals eat different kind of grain than humans, and most of the time the grain does not need to be harvested for the animals to eat (they are just sent out ot graze). Perhaps I should restate myself, intelligent life. If killing animals in the name of science is okay, then why don't abortion clinics donate the fetus to those stem-cell research places? That would be in the name of science and life would serve it's purpose for them now wouldn't it?
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:28 pm
FreeArsenal Vegan? I would be if those tractors didn't kill so many animals while harvesting the soy. More wild and free animals are killed when you harvest soy than when raised as meet, because animals eat different kind of grain than humans, and most of the time the grain does not need to be harvested for the animals to eat (they are just sent out ot graze). Perhaps I should restate myself, intelligent life. If killing animals in the name of science is okay, then why don't abortion clinics donate the fetus to those stem-cell research places? That would be in the name of science and life would serve it's purpose for them now wouldn't it? Ah, but those animals were wild and had freedom in their lives. Every little bit helps yah know. I don't eat meat and only the wild animals get killed. You eat meat and both wild and domesticated animals are killed ((in horrible, horrible ways, after lives of misery and pain)) Besides, who says you need to eat soy? Who says the food you eat needs to come from a field? Hyperbonics...*slap* shut up you crack pot... Intelligent life? It does not even have a brain for part of its existence, let alone a working one. There are dogs with more intelligence than an unborn foetus Stem Cell research? They would donate them if the couple/mother allowed it ((along with the opposers to stem cell research)). I have no problem with stem cell research or any aborted foetus from my body being used in such a manner.
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:32 pm
Shard Aerliss FreeArsenal Vegan? I would be if those tractors didn't kill so many animals while harvesting the soy. More wild and free animals are killed when you harvest soy than when raised as meet, because animals eat different kind of grain than humans, and most of the time the grain does not need to be harvested for the animals to eat (they are just sent out ot graze). Perhaps I should restate myself, intelligent life. If killing animals in the name of science is okay, then why don't abortion clinics donate the fetus to those stem-cell research places? That would be in the name of science and life would serve it's purpose for them now wouldn't it? Ah, but those animals were wild and had freedom in their lives. Every little bit helps yah know. I don't eat meat and only the wild animals get killed. You eat meat and both wild and domesticated animals are killed ((in horrible, horrible ways, after lives of misery and pain)) Besides, who says you need to eat soy? Who says the food you eat needs to come from a field? Hyperbonics...*slap* shut up you crack pot... Intelligent life? It does not even have a brain for part of its existence, let alone a working one. There are dogs with more intelligence than an unborn foetus Stem Cell research? They would donate them if the couple/mother allowed it ((along with the opposers to stem cell research)). I have no problem with stem cell research or any aborted foetus from my body being used in such a manner. Science and religion don't agree, regardless, science can also be a load of fiction set upon us by some great deceiver.. whatever. It doesn't matter what food you eat, animals die for that food, and that's why I choose not to waste food. Same reason I feel that if abortion is to remain as something that is part of society, the life of the unborn should not be wasted and just put in the incinerator, it should be used for the benefit of society. Regardless, I believe the fetus does have an intelligence about it when it develops a brain.
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:23 pm
FreeArsenal Xanaphia00 I.Am Thank you, Toxic. 3nodding Indeed, Pro-Life men's opinions matter, because we aren't mainly concerned with the women. They can do whatever they want with their own bodies, as far as I'm concerned. However, that "doing whatever they want" ends when it touches another person. And since I consider the fetus to be another person, I don't believe they have a right to do anything harmful to it. Yet you would give a fetus the right to do what it wants with the women's body, and the women cannot do what she wants to the fetus' body? I say we split them up, but that unfortunately leads to death in the fetus. If there was another way to protect bodily intregrity without sacrificing a fetu's lifes, i would be for that. But until then, abortion is the only way. But who's actions started the life of the fetus? When you start something are you not responsible for it whether it is dead or living? Maybe you can say it's not a person, and it's inhuman, and it doesn't deserve to live because it is in my body... but with actions comes responsibility. If you abort the fetus to kill it, you should at least bear with the responsibility knowing you destroyed a life, potential or actual person does not matter, it is LIFE. oh oh *rases hand* so if kill a duck is that as bad as killing a fetus? xd
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:17 pm
I have no problem with male lifers/choicers who desire to debate about the legality of abortion. They have opinions too, and if they can back it up with fact, they're welcome to do so.
I develope problems with them when a lifer (or choicer, but I tend to see this in pro-lifers, really) informs me that I cannot have sex with my husband until I'm legally able to get my tubes tied as well as using an arsenal of BC because doing so otherwise would be giving into my unnatural lusts of having sex without wanting children. And doing it like that is STILL giving into my lust. Just with even better of a chance of not having children.
This applies to everyone. Pro-life, pro-choice, female, male, hermaphrodites, etc.
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:30 am
please excuse me, I haven't eaten in about 5 hours...but...internet..shiny...cannot leave... FreeArsenal Science and religion don't agree Depends on your religion. FreeArsenal science can also be a load of fiction set upon us by some great deceiver.. whatever. So...um...what? FreeArsenal It doesn't matter what food you eat, animals die for that food, and that's why I choose not to waste food. Same reason I feel that if abortion is to remain as something that is part of society, the life of the unborn should not be wasted and just put in the incinerator, it should be used for the benefit of society. Who said anything about waste? Veggies don't go out and buy meat just to dump it in the bin. And as I said, every little helps. Quote: Regardless, I believe the fetus does have an intelligence about it when it develops a brain. I see what's going on here. You don't believe anything the science books, doctors etc tell you. Therefore your beliefs are right. Doesn't matter that a foetus's brain is not developed enough for it to even desire sustanence, you believe it has intelligence and because you believe it then you are right. And because you are right everyone must follow what you say, even though it is your belief. Disclaimer: So you don't believe everyone should follow your beliefs just because they are your beliefs? But you want to ignore the given facts as they stand right now. Quote: But who's actions started the life of the fetus? When you start something are you not responsible for it whether it is dead or living? My mothers perhaps...because her actions started the life of me...thus all my actions occur because of her actions 24 years ago ((damn I'm getting old *squints and looks for her walking stick*)). Or perhaps the nurse that did not insert the Norplant correctly. Or all the girls who I live with because my cycle was in the wrong place as we were all aligning ((actually I think cycle alignment is a big fat myth...)) and they all chose to come move into my place, I was there first. OK...back on track here... Fi your sentiments are true then you should be out there trying to ban putting your kids up fro adoption...because you started them and you should be responsible for them whether they are alive or dead. As for the alive or dead thing? Women who choose abortion are responsible for the foetus, even if it is dead. Hmmm, we seem to be getting a little off the topic here...
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:36 pm
I.Am Indeed, Pro-Life men's opinions matter, because we aren't mainly concerned with the women. They can do whatever they want with their own bodies, as far as I'm concerned. I've had some problems with male pro-lifers opinions. I'm not talking about all of them, but I have seen some very irritating points that have attempted to be made by said group. For instance, the whole "if you have sex, that means you have agreed with yourself to have a child" idea. When im seeing that come from a mans mouth, I am going to lash. As a man, you are taking no such risks in having sex. You can just do it and go your way. And acting as if every time you have sex you are going to have a baby should be just as irrational for women as it is for men. As a freaking human being, what makes you different? as you go off talking about the rights of a foetus, you are shoving aside the mental and physical status of the pregnant woman, who you will never be, and don't even know. Oh well. i didnt want to offend anyone, but i guess i got a little carried away. as i said before, this is not meant for all pro-lifer men. FreeArsenal But who's actions started the life of the fetus? When you start something are you not responsible for it whether it is dead or living? Maybe you can say it's not a person, and it's inhuman, and it doesn't deserve to live because it is in my body... but with actions comes responsibility. If you abort the fetus to kill it, you should at least bear with the responsibility knowing you destroyed a life, potential or actual person does not matter, it is LIFE. You think that women who have had abortions dont feel horrible? Really? because thats another feeling that I get from these forums. As if women who get abortions are unfeeling murderers, that they will just go on and keep killing babies. No. I have a friend who had an abortion a long time ago. She is now happily married with three children. I asked her, and she still feels sad about the child that she had to lose. People, pro-choicers arent out to kill babies. Having an abortion isnt something that women take lightly. It is an ordeal, and the choice is a horrible one to make. But that doesnt mean that the right to choice should be taken away. It is the carrier's descision to make. That is my opinion.
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