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 Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:01 am
lucid_mirror Extremely Deeply Spiritual. However women are not necessarily more or less spiritual then men. they tend to just have different goals and applications for spirituality. I agree spirituality should based on experience of encounters with GOD's Spirit and what has been imparted to one. His word teaches that he is no respector or pesons.
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:00 pm
Artto I don't buy into this spirituality thing. Maybe if someone could define it for me, I could give an opinion. But it's one of the vaguest terms ever.
Spirituality is a consequence of religion. Religion is the practice of a belief in a god or gods. How god is defined is theology (the study of god(s)). The religion defines the practice. Spirituality is a reference to the condition of the soul, the spirit which in Greek is psycho (pronounced - psee*ko).
Conditions can be described as;
- Soulful, spiritual
- shallow
- agnostic (confused)
- dead
- black, cold, evil
Directions are;
light/dark
love/hate
peace/rage
calm/fearful
left/right
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:30 pm
Alright time to throw my whole two cents into the conversation. To simplify, spirituality as I define it personally is an expression of soul or self. Lucid put forth an interesting definition of soul in one of the mythology discussions. lucid_mirror The current concept of the soul is deeply simplified. The soul is actually multiple layers in the myths of folk religions. Mind, Consciousness, Shadow, Spirit etc these together make up the soul. Certain parts of the soul remained with body upon death while others remained with the body. Fritjof Capra in his book 'The Tao of Physics' often came back to a concept which the study of atoms in addition to eastern philosophy often come back to and that's the interconnection between all things. I personally think much the same is true of 'soul', a part of the self which is actually interconnected to other objects, landscapes, beings etc. around us. If the basic building blocks of all existence share such bonds and connectivity, what's to keep parts of the soul or self from interacting with objects and other beings as well? It's hard to explain but the infinitely vast seems to imitate the infinitely small, taking the same core structure but expanding on it. (Best example I can think of is that if you break down the structure of an atom, it looks strikingly similar to galaxies. Both share common properties of being composed of empty space. Both have particles scattered throughout with a cluster of particles gathered towards the center. Don't know if that helps.) I include all of that because entirely too many people seem to indulge in an egotistical world view in which the core values and actions that would influence behaviors are defined based off of what most pertains to self while mostly denying the rest of existence. They seem to overlook the fact that we still share co-existence with other things and beings. Indeed, most of the actions we take in life are governed by our interactions with these other objects and beings. To deny such a connection as a part of the self is to deny the soul and hence has no spirituality. You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:39 pm
Basilia Ann E
Girls are often view, and view themselves, as more spiritual than men. To illustrate this they have scented candles and foam yoga mats.
Wait, how do scented candles and yoga mats equate to having a high spirituality? ... could kick your a** !!
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:38 pm
Renkon Root Basilia Ann E
Girls are often view, and view themselves, as more spiritual than men. To illustrate this they have scented candles and foam yoga mats.
Wait, how do scented candles and yoga mats equate to having a high spirituality? ... could kick your a** !!
*Correction; "Girls are often viewed.."
It doesn't, if you read the whole sentence, "Girl are often viewed, and view themselves, as more spiritual than man". This does not say "Girls are more spiritual than men
This view of spirituality is displayed with candles and yoga (both of which are extremely popular amongst girls)
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:43 pm
Basilia Ann E Renkon Root Basilia Ann E
Girls are often view, and view themselves, as more spiritual than men. To illustrate this they have scented candles and foam yoga mats.
Wait, how do scented candles and yoga mats equate to having a high spirituality? ... could kick your a** !!
*Correction; "Girls are often viewed.."
It doesn't, if you read the whole sentence, "Girl are often viewed, and view themselves, as more spiritual than man". This does not say "Girls are more spiritual than men
This view of spirituality is displayed with candles and yoga (both of which are extremely popular amongst girls)
I didn't say anything about women being viewed as more spiritual than men, I asked how candles and yoga were spiritual.
You still have not answered my question. ... could kick your a** !!
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:53 pm
Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:51 pm
Basilia Ann E Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
Sports do not set a moral code to be in place for every moment of your life, Sports do not answer the big questions. Sports are an activity and source of exercise as well as entertainment. Sports are not a religion. Science is the practice of obtaining knowledge through inexperience. To gain experience and knowledge on the matter scientific experiments are performed, prior experience can also be used as foundation for new experiments. Like sports science sets no moral or ethical code (albeit they are often used to limit scientific practices). Science focuses to understand our immediate situation where religion deals with the larger picture). Science is not Religion. To do things religiously does not necessarily indicate that what is being done a religion. Religiously is often used as a synonym for ritualistically (i.e. a practiced pattern). People eat religiously but food is not our religion. People socialize with others religiously but socializing is not religion. Doing something religiously is not religion.
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:47 am
Basilia Ann E Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
The two specific examples were examples of the religious side of spiritual expression, especially considering we are in a religion guild after all, but that still doesn't mean that the definition includes solely religion. Indeed atheists have reported that seem feeling of connection when taking walks in nature. You'll also have to give your own definition of religion because honestly, like Lucid, I think you're way off track with what religion actually is. I think more of what you're talking about goes into Robert Pirsig's world of quality in which one care's about what they're doing. Such moments of connection to a sports game or connection to a test performed within science can have a certain amount of Zen, that same inter-connectedness I speak of, but that does not necessarily make them religious moments. When you're displaying that level of connection, it's a unification of self and the work being done or the game, it's a spiritual moment, not a religious moment.
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:49 pm
Lateralus es Helica Basilia Ann E Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
The two specific examples were examples of the religious side of spiritual expression, especially considering we are in a religion guild after all, but that still doesn't mean that the definition includes solely religion. Indeed atheists have reported that seem feeling of connection when taking walks in nature. You'll also have to give your own definition of religion because honestly, like Lucid, I think you're way off track with what religion actually is. I think more of what you're talking about goes into Robert Pirsig's world of quality in which one care's about what they're doing. Such moments of connection to a sports game or connection to a test performed within science can have a certain amount of Zen, that same inter-connectedness I speak of, but that does not necessarily make them religious moments. When you're displaying that level of connection, it's a unification of self and the work being done or the game, it's a spiritual moment, not a religious moment.
My view on Religion. All Religions contain the following 1. Moral and Ethical practices. 2. Ritual or Religious practices. 3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, themselves or others. 4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:01 pm
Renkon Root Basilia Ann E Renkon Root Basilia Ann E
Girls are often view, and view themselves, as more spiritual than men. To illustrate this they have scented candles and foam yoga mats.
Wait, how do scented candles and yoga mats equate to having a high spirituality? ... could kick your a** !!
*Correction; "Girls are often viewed.."
It doesn't, if you read the whole sentence, "Girl are often viewed, and view themselves, as more spiritual than man". This does not say "Girls are more spiritual than men
This view of spirituality is displayed with candles and yoga (both of which are extremely popular amongst girls)
I didn't say anything about women being viewed as more spiritual than men, I asked how candles and yoga were spiritual.
You still have not answered my question. ... could kick your a** !!
I did - you just didn't understand the answer.
The answer is open, "This view of spirituality is displayed with candles and yoga (both of which are extremely popular amongst girls)"
does not say that candles and yoga are spiritual - it's says that they are viewed (seen) to be spiritual.
Your view(s) on this is the point of this discussion.
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:55 pm
lucid_mirror Lateralus es Helica Basilia Ann E Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
The two specific examples were examples of the religious side of spiritual expression, especially considering we are in a religion guild after all, but that still doesn't mean that the definition includes solely religion. Indeed atheists have reported that seem feeling of connection when taking walks in nature. You'll also have to give your own definition of religion because honestly, like Lucid, I think you're way off track with what religion actually is. I think more of what you're talking about goes into Robert Pirsig's world of quality in which one care's about what they're doing. Such moments of connection to a sports game or connection to a test performed within science can have a certain amount of Zen, that same inter-connectedness I speak of, but that does not necessarily make them religious moments. When you're displaying that level of connection, it's a unification of self and the work being done or the game, it's a spiritual moment, not a religious moment.
My view on Religion. All Religions contain the following 1. Moral and Ethical practices. 2. Ritual or Religious practices. 3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, themselves or others. 4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
Where the confusion comes in is that religion is often confused with theology. Your (both of you and commonly) view religion as theology, but it's not. Religion (the practice and in Greek called the Typikon - Τυπικον) is not the same as theology.
Religion covers;
1. Moral and Ethical practices.
2. Ritual or Religious practices.
While, theology covers
3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, deities, themselves or anything else (ie cults).
4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
Atheism (diametrically opposed to theism) would stack up as follows;
Theology 1st;
1. There is no god or gods
2. belief in nothing, or belief in the self
3. The university is chaos and coincidence
The Religion of Atheism;
1. Communism or Environmentalism - where the state of the environment determines direction, ethics and morals
2. Nazisim or Eugenics - where genetics determine direction, ethics and morals
3. Anarchism & Nihilism; the practice of total chaos and destruction.
Branching from atheism are the agnostics, who aren't sure - and have left their beliefs undefined. (I'm doing a word search on agnostic into the Greek evolution of the word.) I'll post the result when I have it and references.
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:44 pm
Basilia Ann E lucid_mirror Lateralus es Helica Basilia Ann E Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
The two specific examples were examples of the religious side of spiritual expression, especially considering we are in a religion guild after all, but that still doesn't mean that the definition includes solely religion. Indeed atheists have reported that seem feeling of connection when taking walks in nature. You'll also have to give your own definition of religion because honestly, like Lucid, I think you're way off track with what religion actually is. I think more of what you're talking about goes into Robert Pirsig's world of quality in which one care's about what they're doing. Such moments of connection to a sports game or connection to a test performed within science can have a certain amount of Zen, that same inter-connectedness I speak of, but that does not necessarily make them religious moments. When you're displaying that level of connection, it's a unification of self and the work being done or the game, it's a spiritual moment, not a religious moment.
My view on Religion. All Religions contain the following 1. Moral and Ethical practices. 2. Ritual or Religious practices. 3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, themselves or others. 4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
Where the confusion comes in is that religion is often confused with theology. Your (both of you and commonly) view religion as theology, but it's not. Religion (the practice and in Greek called the Typikon - Τυπικον) is not the same as theology.
Religion covers;
1. Moral and Ethical practices.
2. Ritual or Religious practices.
While, theology covers
3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, deities, themselves or anything else (ie cults).
4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
Atheism (diametrically opposed to theism) would stack up as follows;
Theology 1st;
1. There is no god or gods
2. belief in nothing, or belief in the self
3. The university is chaos and coincidence
The Religion of Atheism;
1. Communism or Environmentalism - where the state of the environment determines direction, ethics and morals
2. Nazisim or Eugenics - where genetics determine direction, ethics and morals
3. Anarchism & Nihilism; the practice of total chaos and destruction.
Branching from atheism are the agnostics, who aren't sure - and have left their beliefs undefined. (I'm doing a word search on agnostic into the Greek evolution of the word.) I'll post the result when I have it and references.
(albeit it may be stretched a bit) Merriam-Webster Dictionary Main Entry: re·li·gion Pronunciation: ri-ˈli-jən Function: noun Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely Date: 13th century 1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and fait
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:49 pm
Basilia Ann E lucid_mirror Lateralus es Helica Basilia Ann E Quote: You'll notice many people will define spiritual moments as moments of supreme cognition of that very fact. 'I am a part of God's plan' or 'I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual.' That's not to say I think spirituality is exclusively the recognition of inter-connectedness, just that it's a larger part of it than many would consciously think of when thinking of spirituality. Overall, I still think it is more accurate to include spirituality being an expression of self as long as you assume that part of the self is connected to the rest of existence and not apart from it.
You just demonstrated the definition of religion. It's also clear that all religions are not the same. Religions are an expression of spirituality, including lack of spirituality (atheism).
To, "'I am a part of God's plan" and "I feel connected to Buddha's nature in the performance of ritual."
You can add;
Sports as a religion (ritualized watching of sports and adoration of sports idols)
Science as a religion, where the word "Science" is substituted for the word "God"
Anything done "religiously"
The two specific examples were examples of the religious side of spiritual expression, especially considering we are in a religion guild after all, but that still doesn't mean that the definition includes solely religion. Indeed atheists have reported that seem feeling of connection when taking walks in nature. You'll also have to give your own definition of religion because honestly, like Lucid, I think you're way off track with what religion actually is. I think more of what you're talking about goes into Robert Pirsig's world of quality in which one care's about what they're doing. Such moments of connection to a sports game or connection to a test performed within science can have a certain amount of Zen, that same inter-connectedness I speak of, but that does not necessarily make them religious moments. When you're displaying that level of connection, it's a unification of self and the work being done or the game, it's a spiritual moment, not a religious moment.
My view on Religion. All Religions contain the following 1. Moral and Ethical practices. 2. Ritual or Religious practices. 3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, themselves or others. 4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
Where the confusion comes in is that religion is often confused with theology. Your (both of you and commonly) view religion as theology, but it's not. Religion (the practice and in Greek called the Typikon - Τυπικον) is not the same as theology.
Religion covers;
1. Moral and Ethical practices.
2. Ritual or Religious practices.
While, theology covers
3. A direction of worship whether it be a deity, deities, themselves or anything else (ie cults).
4. Answers to the big questions (death, origin etc)
Atheism (diametrically opposed to theism) would stack up as follows;
Theology 1st;
1. There is no god or gods
2. belief in nothing, or belief in the self
3. The university is chaos and coincidence
The Religion of Atheism;
1. Communism or Environmentalism - where the state of the environment determines direction, ethics and morals
2. Nazisim or Eugenics - where genetics determine direction, ethics and morals
3. Anarchism & Nihilism; the practice of total chaos and destruction.
Branching from atheism are the agnostics, who aren't sure - and have left their beliefs undefined. (I'm doing a word search on agnostic into the Greek evolution of the word.) I'll post the result when I have it and references.
Atheism and agnosticism are not religions whatsoever. They're knowledge claims. Atheism is the belief that there is no God/Gods in contrast to Theism which IS the belief in God/Gods. Agnosticism is the middle ground between the two in which one does not know for sure whether or not there is a God/Gods, although they tend to lean one way or another. The true 'I'm just plain not sure' Agnostics are extremely rare. That's all the two are, knowledge claims concerning God/Gods and nothing else. Now if you're referring to all the people with a lack of any religion you're also way off course once again. There's so many varied beliefs concerning morality, ethics, the origins of it all, that you can't possibly consider that they all buy into a generally cohesive belief structure.
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:39 am
Basilia Ann E Renkon Root Basilia Ann E Renkon Root Basilia Ann E
Girls are often view, and view themselves, as more spiritual than men. To illustrate this they have scented candles and foam yoga mats.
Wait, how do scented candles and yoga mats equate to having a high spirituality? ... could kick your a** !!
*Correction; "Girls are often viewed.."
It doesn't, if you read the whole sentence, "Girl are often viewed, and view themselves, as more spiritual than man". This does not say "Girls are more spiritual than men
This view of spirituality is displayed with candles and yoga (both of which are extremely popular amongst girls)
I didn't say anything about women being viewed as more spiritual than men, I asked how candles and yoga were spiritual.
You still have not answered my question. ... could kick your a** !!
I did - you just didn't understand the answer.
The answer is open, "This view of spirituality is displayed with candles and yoga (both of which are extremely popular amongst girls)"
does not say that candles and yoga are spiritual - it's says that they are viewed (seen) to be spiritual.
Your view(s) on this is the point of this discussion.
Explaining that something is viewed a certain way is not the same as explaining why/how something is viewed a certain way.
All you did was rephrase your first post expecting to pass it off as an answer. ... could kick your a** !!
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