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 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:31 pm
I'm not saying his opinion has no merit. I think his opinion is based on very little understanding of the subculture. If I were to say that Lolita is just frills and nonsense when I was only looking at the clothing style, wouldn't that mean my opinion was ill-informed? And I would get flak for it. Who's to say the people attacking my opinion are wrong if my opinion is just based on face value of that subculture?
One doesn't have to like a subculture, but one should be at least slightly informed about it before bashing the hell out of it.
And how does one not get defensive when one feels personally attacked? Yes, I like steampunk. This guy is, frankly, calling me ridiculous and questioning my intelligence. I think I have a right to defend myself against someone who makes wild accusations without even knowing me.
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:32 pm
I don't mind that he hates steampunk, I'm just surprised it bothers him enough for him to make a rant like that.
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:31 pm
我就是你们女生最讨厌的那种人I'm the kind of guy you girls hate most.I hope you have fun erasing my post style, though.
John Stalvern waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway. John was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad "I want to be on the ships daddy." Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS" There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the UAC he knew there were demons. "This is Joson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demons!" So John gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall. "HE GOING TO KILL US" said the demons "I will shoot at him" said the cyberdemon and he fired the rocket missiles. John plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill. "No! I must kill the demons" he shouted The radio said "No, John. You are the demons" And then John was a zombie.
对了就是那个臭男孩
That's right, that jerk.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:25 am
well, now what i think your getting at is that he needs to have a great knowledge of the culture before he can bash it right?
but to get such knowledge, he would have to be interested enough in it, which would imply that he enjoys it, not that he wants to bash it.
sorry, but i just dont think your arguments have much merit themselves, im trying to see this from both sides and despite being steampunk myself, his arguments have the greater merit... and so far as i could tell, he wasnt personally attacking anyone, he was attacking the subculture as a whole, so if you feel offended by it, rather than b***h behind his back, why dont you leave comments on his blog or contact him?
this is just yet more proof of how elitest we really are...
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:07 am
fire - link well, now what i think your getting at is that he needs to have a great knowledge of the culture before he can bash it right? but to get such knowledge, he would have to be interested enough in it, which would imply that he enjoys it, not that he wants to bash it. sorry, but i just dont think your arguments have much merit themselves, im trying to see this from both sides and despite being steampunk myself, his arguments have the greater merit... and so far as i could tell, he wasnt personally attacking anyone, he was attacking the subculture as a whole, so if you feel offended by it, rather than b***h behind his back, why dont you leave comments on his blog or contact him? this is just yet more proof of how elitest we really are... That raises a good point. Many who bash on a subculture typically have little to no real knowledge of it and have made up their minds with no intention to learn anything about it.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:08 am
fire - link see, i think a few of you are reading this the wrong way... -Lasciate Ogni Speranza- So he hates steampunk because his non-steampunk, not even vaguely Victorian-in-ideals neighbors were assholes? Yeah, that makes sense. he isnt saying they are identical, he is using his own experiences, which although have nothing to do with the victorians, have similar themes and merits to his argument, as an example. hell, although we say we are un-elitest, i have to say at times i think we steamers are one of the most elitest cultures out there now... "hot topic releases their own take on steampunk" that was met by various responses along the lines of "i hate it when it hits the mainstream, they've done it wrong" one moment everyones all "it doesnt have to be brown and have goggles" the next its "i hate it, therefore its not steampunk, they are liars and wrong" if anything, i hate how whenever someone says anything bad about it, like this guy has, everyone starts getting defensive and attacking him back... how much more elitest can you be when you cant even accept that an opinion that differs from yours actually has a little merit... and when you just ignore the flaws in your own culture... -Lasciate Ogni Speranza-, i wasnt having a go at you specifically by the way, i was just using your quote as an example, sorry if it causes any offence, it just suited my needs... [/tyrade] I was hit with that myself a couple of times just for saying Bioshock seem steampunky to me.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:28 am
Kurisu of the Hellfire fire - link well, now what i think your getting at is that he needs to have a great knowledge of the culture before he can bash it right? but to get such knowledge, he would have to be interested enough in it, which would imply that he enjoys it, not that he wants to bash it. sorry, but i just dont think your arguments have much merit themselves, im trying to see this from both sides and despite being steampunk myself, his arguments have the greater merit... and so far as i could tell, he wasnt personally attacking anyone, he was attacking the subculture as a whole, so if you feel offended by it, rather than b***h behind his back, why dont you leave comments on his blog or contact him? this is just yet more proof of how elitest we really are... That raises a good point. Many who bash on a subculture typically have little to no real knowledge of it and have made up their minds with no intention to learn anything about it. ah, but the thing is, he clearly has a reason for disliking it, enough that he doesnt wish to learn anything more about the culture. besides, as i said, if he wished to learn about it, it would imply he is interested in it, not hating it.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:16 am
Okay, obviously I'm not using the correct language to get my point across. But thanks for calling me elitist, since that certainly makes you the better person.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:25 am
thing is, im not trying to be the better person, im trying to get a point of my own accross, that instead of being such an elitest towards him for having an opinion different to your own, maybe you should try to understand what it is he is trying to say (which you clearly dont) before opening your mouth.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:59 am
Wow. Id say yes he should get some infos, but not neccessarily as much as a steampunk enthusiast would. Other: I have to agree with -Lasciate Ogni Speranza- on the point that he said bad stuff towards the ppl as well, not the culture. It can be seen in the LAST paragraph of the article. Quote: So ******** you, Steampunks. I’d love to see any of your last more than a day in 1880’s London without your Blackberries, your blogs, and—for God’ sake—your indoor plumbing. Until you shut off your electricity, s**t in an outhouse, and start eating salt pork, shut the ******** up. Especially the 1st sentence (in my opinion) is a harming (attempt?) to steampunk-related ppl. And I agree witheulaliyan mikoto too on that: Quote: I don't mind that he hates steampunk, I'm just surprised it bothers him enough for him to make a rant like that. In my opinion his memories were pretty fresh when he wrote that article which could have influenced his fed-up style of writing.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:00 am
Del Amor That's crazy talk. This guy is clearly not getting the full picture of Steampunk. Most of the Steampunks I know understand that the Victorian era was far from perfect. I think all women are acutely aware of that. Women in Steampunk--who take it seriously rather than just as an excuse to wear a corset and mini skirt--have to strike a balance between our own modern desire for equality and the actualities of the Victorian age. I think that's why so many steampunks choose to present themselves as explorers, adventurers, theives, and pirates. We choose societal fringe because that's the only place a woman could prove herself--or anyone else for that matter. Choosing a genteel persona is a whole different set of motivations which is not without merit, but not really related to this. I think what he wanted to say--or what he might argue if he knew what he was talking about-- is that Steampunks are almost inherently escapist. Our hobby is fixated on the past and alternate realities. We don't do a lot of looking to the future, nor do we generally do much to influence the present. Steampunk is, on some level, a culture in which we pick and choose all the good parts of history to create a shiny, optimistic world or at least one in which there is freedom and opportunity balanced nicely by rationale and dignity. Even our criminals are generally justifiable and charismatic. Even though this guy is wrong, you have to admit . . . We present a kind of Disney-version of the world. And I agree on this too.
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:42 pm
fire - link Kurisu of the Hellfire fire - link well, now what i think your getting at is that he needs to have a great knowledge of the culture before he can bash it right? but to get such knowledge, he would have to be interested enough in it, which would imply that he enjoys it, not that he wants to bash it. sorry, but i just dont think your arguments have much merit themselves, im trying to see this from both sides and despite being steampunk myself, his arguments have the greater merit... and so far as i could tell, he wasnt personally attacking anyone, he was attacking the subculture as a whole, so if you feel offended by it, rather than b***h behind his back, why dont you leave comments on his blog or contact him? this is just yet more proof of how elitest we really are... That raises a good point. Many who bash on a subculture typically have little to no real knowledge of it and have made up their minds with no intention to learn anything about it. ah, but the thing is, he clearly has a reason for disliking it, enough that he doesnt wish to learn anything more about the culture. besides, as i said, if he wished to learn about it, it would imply he is interested in it, not hating it. You'd be surprised how many people do research just so they have more reason to hate something
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:43 pm
Also, to be honest, what hobby ISN'T escapist?
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:50 am
Kurisu of the Hellfire Also, to be honest, what hobby ISN'T escapist? ah, now THATS a good point... escapism is something we all do sometimes, like with videogames. that said, what if your hobby is stamp collecting? theres no fiction or theory behind it really, so i would hardly call it escapist...
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:05 am
fire - link Kurisu of the Hellfire Also, to be honest, what hobby ISN'T escapist? ah, now THATS a good point... escapism is something we all do sometimes, like with videogames. that said, what if your hobby is stamp collecting? theres no fiction or theory behind it really, so i would hardly call it escapist... Well, with most if not all hobbies you're looking to escape your stresses in some way. Way I see it so long as it doesn't hurt anyone go for it.
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