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She sounds like the intelligent one, to be honest. Not believing in evolution? Really? Gay marriage is an opinion, but still. It's easier to say "God doesn't like it!" and pretend it's true than actually consider the ethical and spiritual reasons. And no, following a book is not being spiritual.

As for evolution... I shouldn't even bring this up here. But it's pretty much scientifically proven, as far as scientific theory goes. It's about on par with gravity. Saying that God made people is like saying God made an apple fall from a tree.

Fair enough, he may have. But the process that made this happen was evolution/gravity, respectively.

You even have to ask? Hell Yeah.

How does something being hard to believe make it spiritual? Shouldn't evolutionary theory be spiritual to you, too? Spiritual is of the spirit, and the spirit is ethereal, so this may be why you're drawing this connection, but spirituality comes from aligning the universe with your spirit. It's an understanding of the subtle realities that feels right inside.

Well, what's the difference, then? The bible DOES mention slavery positively- You are allowed to sell your daughter into servitude, for example. Word of God. If you can't by gay, why can't you have slaves, if we're following God's law? And should you be talking right now, as Timothy 2:12 states "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Word of God.

Really? Because gravity is simply a theory. Before that, it was assumed that the world had several primary directions, and that "heavy" matter had a tendency downwards, while light matter had a tendency upwards.

And what if the world's spinning was the sole reason for our falling towards it, like largescale centrifugal force? What if it was just the pressure of the air above us pushing things down?
Evolution is just as proven as science- That's how diseases still exist despite our medicine. I've already given proof of natural selection, and natural selection is evolution.

Textbooks are often bullshit. Fair enough. They botch most of history to make America look like the good guy all the time. But textbooks are not where evolutionary theory comes from- it comes from objective observation of reality.

But let me ask you something else- Is the world round or flat?

I think it's more of exchange of information. She's not the type to like debating anyway...

Then it may. But by your reasoning, if it is difficult to believe in, it should be spiritual. Since you find it difficult to believe in evolution, it should be spiritual for you to do so. And really, how does a simplistic answer feel more like God? "God did it" is really kind of weak, in my opinion. It doesn't have the elegance of establishing a series of interconnecting laws. It goes from a master clockmaker to a kid with legos, basically.

Then let's go back to that- It says that we can. So let's. Word of God. Why would He make rules for it if he didn't want us to do it?

It does. You are a woman, you are talking and disagreeing with a man. A crime against God, according the the Good Book.

No, it's the other way around. Evolution happens with animals. We can observe animals and their changes and vestigial organs and the alteration of bacteria very quickly and very easily. Gravitational theory is based on entire solar systems, which frankly, we can't truly weigh. Gravitational theory, then, is more based on math and assumptions on why objects fall the way they do.

For example, were we to go into a room and drop a pencil, it falls. I could state that it falls NOT because of gravity, but because it is heavier than the air, and sinks. Were it lighter, it would float, like it does in water. Therefore, ignoring gravitational theory, the pencil drops only because it is heavy, and not due to the mass of the planet pulling it with it's bending of spacetime.

Of course we can see it happening and say, now that the theory is established, "That is just gravity!". Retrospect is always 20/20. the point I'm trying to get across is that this theory seems so obvious because you learned it from birth. But it was not always inherent, and is STILL only a theory.

No you can't. Natural selection IS evolution. Follow me on this- If natural selection plays out on a species of moth that has black and white members, and all of the white members die- What is left? What will the next generation of moths look like? Answer this for me.

Even though I still want to see you actually type your answer, I will go on and explain now. You will undoubtedly say "They will all be black." The answer is correct, obviously, as there are no longer white moths to pass on the white trait. This means that, through natural selection, the only moths left are black moths. This is the point where everyone says "That's just evolution!"- The species is now different from what it was before. As it continues to change through natural selection, say, with the addition of red moths who survive better than black moths, we will see a complete change from the original. Evolution.

And your point?

Yes. However, it was thought by many that the world must be round. It would be a blasphemy to God himself to claim otherwise. The learning of a new scientific fact is not a threat to God. Accepting evolution will not mean that there is no God, just as knowing that the Earth is round does not mean that God can't exist because people imagined it to be flat.

And could not evolution be one of these steps?

Well, slaves were OK if they were bought, or if captured in war. So if I kill your family in honorable combat, can I take you as a slave? And it seems to me like you don't really believe this- You just don't want to seem inconsistent.

I do not permit a woman to speak. She shall remain silent. That's pretty much exactly what it meant. What else would it mean? If you can work around this, why not homosexuality?

When does evolution disagree with the bible? The bible doesn't specifically say evolution, but it never specifically says gravity, either.

The air is not lighter because of gravity, it's lighter because those are the properties of air. If you did not know about gravity, could you not assume what I said? If we are ignoring gravity as a theory, the reason a pencil does not float in the air is because of the weight of the pencil compared to the weight of the air.

Please, try to think critically about this. This is exactly the point I'm trying to make- The weight of the air doesn't matter without gravity. Exactly. But what, then, is gravity? How does it work, and how can you, looking around right now in your room, prove that it is because of the mass of the planet and NOT simply a difference in mass between air and pencil?

It seems so simple because "you drop something, it falls"- Sure. But the exact mechanism is really quite difficult to work out and prove.

No, it wasn't faked. It happened in a city. Even then, it's an example. Use red and yellow frogs, or blue and orange berries, or legged and legless cats. It doesn't matter. The point is the result- Over time, creatures that survive mate. Those that do not, do not. What we see is a small change based on what can survive.

If this process is repeated multiple times, we eventually see things that don't resemble what they "started" as. It's not something we see walking down the street. It takes millions of years. Imagine if the dogs we see now continue breeding and changing slightly. It's hard to even tell that some dogs are dogs- Look at the shitzu. Do you think that could breed with a wolf? Even assuming they could, look at the changes they've taken so far, in only 20,000 years or so. Imagine another million- Do you think a million years worth of changes equivalent to that of the shitzu would result in something that could breed with a wolf?


It's not really very hard to explain why we sin. Actually, it's very simple. We want. Our systems exploit that because it benefits a few people (who also want) to the extreme. That's basically it. We cause it because we are too proud and too selfish, as either a race or as a few in power, to grant equality and peace. We sin because we are attracted to the riches of the world and forget the beauty of the eternal. It's as simple as that.

And yes. When fact tells you that it is wrong, it is wrong.

It would be like, going to the God is a Painter metaphor, having him make a beautiful starry night sky, only to have it covered by a tarp with a stick figure painted on it and for us to look at it and say "That's a nice stick figure." The complication God made is so much more intense in reality. And frankly, to uncover God's work the way he made it (which is all science does- Explain How God acted) and then ignore it is kind of insulting.

It's essentially evolution. Evolution is just the result of natural selection happening over and over again for a long time. So, if you believe in natural selection, then you believe in evolution.

There are 2 main distinctions of evolution. Micro-evolution that everyone is familiar with (we all evolved from a common ancestor), and macro-evolution in which is the proven beyond a doubt form (all life has the ability to adapt on a cellular level).

Proponents of micro-evolution sight evidence of macro-evolution as their evidence that we evolved from single-celled organisms.

Macro-evolution is life's way of adapting on the cellular level to better survive change. This is where survival of the fittest comes in. Macro-evolution doesn't change one species to another, it just rearranges genes that are already included in the cells to adapt the cells to changes in habitat.

The thing is, there are no proven examples of micro-evolution. If you want to sight missing link theories of "Lucy" or "Pilt-down Man", then you might as well be quoting the Bible to an atheists. These do not have the fossil remnants to prove everything they claim of these specimens. You can't say that something walked upright on two legs from a finger bone and a skull.

Several of these specimens have been shown to be mix-ups, and hoaxes anyway, yet even after that fact, they are still used as a basis of teaching that evolution is true. That's like finding the bones of Jesus, and still trying to tell everyone that he rose again and ascended to heaven.

Besides, primates are clannish in nature, and there tends to be allot of inbreeding going on in these more remote clans. You might as well open yourself to the possibilities that some of the odd-shaped skulls are deformations, and not anything history-changing.

Now if they come up with absolute unarguable proof that we indeed did evolve from single-celled organisms, it isn't going to affect my beliefs any. I think our Creator is powerful enough to create us however He/She wants. Even the Bible says that a thousand years is just a blink of an eye to God. I can't find it in myself to take the whole Bible literally, and I think that it is absurd to even try.

What gets me though is when atheists say they can't believe in God because they don't see proof, and that Christians who take the word of their pastor as true are foolish. Yet they quote science and Micro-evolution as true and have no proof either, and they just take the word of a few Scientists who scream the loudest.