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 Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:01 pm
Tessar Cradoc just a fwi the Bible has NOTHING against having Sodomite/Lesbian friends its just your not suppose to be CLOSE friends with them. ^.^;; if anyone has verses to help support this please post I hate posting things without knowing what I got it from. oh and the verse I'm refering to I think uses the word Gentiles or sinners. besides, we're supposed to love everyone, and god loves them, even though they have sinned. (didn't I read somewhere that all sin is equal, there is no "greater" sin, so aren't they doing something as bad as... lying? *shrug* just something I thought of...) I AM trying to get closer to all of my Christian friends, although it is proving difficult since my church lacks high school females and is overpopulated with the guys... sweatdrop
yea... *sigh*
@LittleKuroNeko: yes, that's pretty much whereI stand on the marriage issue. If they want to, let them. just because the government approves, doesn't mean it's right, or that God approves too. actually I think it said somewere in the Bible that God sees all sins as equal but lying and stealing are some of the worst because they can cause more problems, kinda what I call I "chain sin" like if you lie you're more prone to lie again and again to cover yourself up....but some other sins the same thing can be relatively said so...meh sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:55 pm
It would appear that the issue needing to be addressed is sin. Frankly, it does not really matter if the sin is sodomy, lesbianism, alcoholism, drug addiction, gluttony, beastiality, adultery, fornication, envy, etc.
Your post seems to imply two separate questions ...
1) What is God's relationship to evil men?
2) How are the regenerate (Christians) to respond to the unregenerate humanists?
Let me attempt to address the first question ... What is God's relationship to evil men?
Many examples from Scripture come to mind --- Esau & Jacob, Pharaoh, Joseph's brothers, Judas, Herod, and on and on.
Romans 9:11-13: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth wink It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Paul quoted Malachi 1:2-4. Esau was condemned before he could do evil or good. This is true for ALL mankind which is WHY we need Christ as our Saviour. It is not amazing that God hated Esau. What IS amazing is that God loved Jacob. Rebellious Isaac, Esau's father, attempted to reverse God's design for Jacob. Rebelious Isaac was wrong (Genesis 27:6-29) and Jacob still received the blessing (Genesis 25:23).
Romans 9:17 --- For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.
God tells us that He raised Pharaoh up and hardened Pharaoh's heart.
Exodus 7:3-4a --- And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay My hand upon Egypt.
God told Moses He was about to judge Egypt. Could Pharaoh resist God who is all-powerful?
Proverbs 21:1 --- The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: He turneth it whithersoever He will.
Exodus 9:12 --- And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he harkened not unto them: as the LORD had spoken to Moses.
Obviously, God alone has sovereign control. Pharaoh was a responsible moral agent. Yet, could Pharaoh have reversed what our all-powerful God had decreed? Can humanistic man ever be more powerful than God?
Joseph, in the older testament, was cruelly sold into slavery by his own brothers. Yet, Joseph stated, "As for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good" (Genesis 50:20).
What about vessels fitted for destruction?
Romans 9:22-23 --- What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction: And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory.
In verse 21, Paul uses the terms vessels of honor and dishonor. The vessels are created by the Potter for a special purpose. Paul states the vessels of wrath have a purpose too --- God will show His mercy to the vessels of mercy (honor) through the vessels of wrath (dishonor).
Luke 22:21-22 --- But, behold the hand of him that betrayeth Me is with Me on the table. And truly the Son of Man goeth as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom He is betrayed.
Judas did not betray God the Son by chance. This vessel of destruction and dishonor was chosen. Acts of rebellion like Judas and others is done by specific people.
Proverbs 16:4 --- The LORD hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Psalm 145:10a --- All Thy works shall praise Thee, O LORD
Man's own lusts tempts himto do evil (James 1:13-14). Yet God demonstrates His sovereign power over evil men. The "day of evil" is the final judgment.
Matthew 25:41 --- Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Those that had sided against Christ -- Herod, Pontius Pilate, etc. -- are also vessels of destruction. Herod and Pontius Piolate had their purpose too.
Acts 4:27-28 --- For of a truth Thy holy Child Jesus whom Thou hast anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy counsel determined before to be done.
Your second implied question --- How are the regenerate (Christians) to respond to the unregenerate humanists?
The answer is simple --- Christians are to be courteous and hospitable to all. It is important to remember, however, that Christians must love what what God loves and hate what God hates. To do otherwise is to declare one's self to be God and would, therefore, violate the First and Second Commandments.
God sends rain on the just (Christians) and the unjust (humanists). This is referred to as common grace. This is given to all men. Saving grace is given only to the vessels of honor with saving grace lasting eternally. Those experiencing saving grace want to please God and strongly desire to obey His Law-Word.
Christians are also called to be wise when dealing with humanists. It would be foolish to be rude and uncouth especially if some of the humanists were men/women of power. Would you, for example, be rude to Stalin? Hitler? Nero? Of course not since all these tyrants would murder you! It is best for the Christian to be courteous to all and yet NOT to compromise with what God defines as evil. Christians must be wise in dealing with them so that we are enabled to defend the weak and the helpless from the humanist's power and evil.
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:05 pm
Cradoc,
I'mnot sure which Scriptures you are referring to ...
there are many Scriptures which warn us about evil companions ...
consent not with evil companions ... Proverbs 1:10-19
avoid them ... 1 Corinthians 5:9-11
remember their end ... Revelations 22:11,15
evil companions cause rebellion ... Numbers 16:1-50
evil companions cause idolatry ... Exodus 32:1-8
evil companions cause violence/death ... Acts 23:12-22
evil companions cause persecution ... Acts 17:5-9
does any of this help?
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:35 pm
Sage~of~Water two post above me are you claiming pre-destination?I don't know I may be brain dead but it sounded a little Calvinistic I mean your saying God condemned someone before they even had a chance or did God see a blackened heart that He knew only a saviour who hadn't yet come could save and watched it condemn itself while He favoured the child with the pure heart? Sage~of~Water Paul quoted Malachi 1:2-4. Esau was condemned before he could do evil or good. This is true for ALL mankind which is WHY we need Christ as our Saviour. It is not amazing that God hated Esau. What IS amazing is that God loved Jacob. Rebellious Isaac, Esau's father, attempted to reverse God's design for Jacob. Rebelious Isaac was wrong (Genesis 27:6-29) and Jacob still received the blessing (Genesis 25:23). I'm just a little sure here clarify do your beliefs lie a bit on the predestinated Calvinist side? Or...what? I'm not muh of a fan of Calvinist but I won't condemn you for it, it ain't my place.
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:02 pm
Cradoc Sage~of~Water two post above me are you claiming pre-destination?I don't know I may be brain dead but it sounded a little Calvinistic I mean your saying God condemned someone before they even had a chance or did God see a blackened heart that He knew only a saviour who hadn't yet come could save and watched it condemn itself while He favoured the child with the pure heart? Sage~of~Water Paul quoted Malachi 1:2-4. Esau was condemned before he could do evil or good. This is true for ALL mankind which is WHY we need Christ as our Saviour. It is not amazing that God hated Esau. What IS amazing is that God loved Jacob. Rebellious Isaac, Esau's father, attempted to reverse God's design for Jacob. Rebelious Isaac was wrong (Genesis 27:6-29) and Jacob still received the blessing (Genesis 25:23). I'm just a little sure here clarify do your beliefs lie a bit on the predestinated Calvinist side? Or...what? I'm not muh of a fan of Calvinist but I won't condemn you for it, it ain't my place. I am just a regular Christian, I was just quoting the Bible.
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:12 pm
Seemed a little different ........I'd have to look up stories eek or yeah get my brother to do it for me ninja you didn't read that.
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I-Want-to-Eat-Joor-Brains
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:35 pm
Cradoc Oh, but I AM totally against 'gay Christian churches' the Bible clearly states its against Gods will (if you want I can get verses) and thus 'gay Christian churches' are as hypocritical as the main medevil church.
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:36 pm
DistortedDark Cradoc Oh, but I AM totally against 'gay Christian churches' the Bible clearly states its against Gods will (if you want I can get verses) and thus 'gay Christian churches' are as hypocritical as the main medevil church. I've known of some converted gays before I'd have to look for them though. Your point is taken though.
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:21 pm
Tessar Cradoc just a fwi the Bible has NOTHING against having Sodomite/Lesbian friends its just your not suppose to be CLOSE friends with them. ^.^;; if anyone has verses to help support this please post I hate posting things without knowing what I got it from. oh and the verse I'm refering to I think uses the word Gentiles or sinners. besides, we're supposed to love everyone, and god loves them, even though they have sinned. (didn't I read somewhere that all sin is equal, there is no "greater" sin, so aren't they doing something as bad as... lying? *shrug* just something I thought of...) I AM trying to get closer to all of my Christian friends, although it is proving difficult since my church lacks high school females and is overpopulated with the guys... sweatdrop
yea... *sigh*
@LittleKuroNeko: yes, that's pretty much whereI stand on the marriage issue. If they want to, let them. just because the government approves, doesn't mean it's right, or that God approves too. yes but remember what God said... "Bad company corrupts good morals..." and also i would like to quote a post i put on another guild on this very subject: lilacluva05 yes..... homo and bio sexuality are abominations against God. and yes it is in the bible..... i believe that if someone is gay/bi they CHOOSE to be so.... and don't flip out on me..... hear me out: God created man. man sinned. man is now not perfect. God punishes sin. God punished adam and eve for their CHOICE. yes they sinned but they CHOSE to sin. in the same way, God would not create a sinful person with no other option only to punish them. God is a just and faithful God and knows what he's doing. i'm not judging the PEOPLE who are gay/bi..... i'm judging their CHOICES and ACTIONS. i'm sure most of them are nice people and fun to be around sometimes but.... they just made the wrong choice and i hope God pulls on their heart so they might turn to God's will instead of their own. (i am not perfect nor did i say i am i'm just stating what i believe) and here is a Bible passage that proves it. Leviticus 20 1And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying,
2"Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel: `Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel, who giveth any of his seed unto Molech, he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3And I will set My face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile My sanctuary and to profane My holy name.
4And if the people of the land do in any way hide their eyes from the man when he giveth of his seed unto Molech and kill him not,
5then I will set My face against that man and against his family and will cut him off, and all who go a whoring after him to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
6"`And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits and after wizards to go a whoring after them, I will even set My face against that soul and will cut him off from among his people.
7"`Sanctify yourselves therefore and be ye holy, for I am the LORD your God.
8"`And ye shall keep My statutes and do them: I am the LORD who sanctify you.
9"`For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death. He hath cursed his father or his mother: his blood shall be upon him.
10"`And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness. Both of them shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.
12And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have wrought confusion: their blood shall be upon them.
13"`If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.
14"`And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there be no wickedness among you.
15"`And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death; and ye shall slay the beast.
16And if a woman approach unto any beast and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman and the beast. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.
17"`And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness and she see his nakedness, it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people. He hath uncovered his sister's nakedness: he shall bear his iniquity.
18"`And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness and shall uncover her nakedness, he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood; and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
19And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister nor of thy father's sister, for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
20And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness. They shall bear their sin: they shall die childless.
21And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing. He hath uncovered his brother's nakedness: they shall be childless.
22"`Ye shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and do them, that the land whither I bring you to dwell therein spew you not out.
23And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation which I cast out before you; for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
24But I have said unto you, "Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who have separated you from other people.
25Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean; and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
26And ye shall be holy unto Me; for I the LORD am holy and have severed you from other people, that ye should be Mine.
27"`A man also or woman who hath a familiar spirit, or who is a wizard, shall surely be put to death. They shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.'"and don't say "well that only says that you shouldn't be sexually active with a person of the same sex" because i don't think God would say "oh ok well, john, you can kiss and hug and hold hands with your boyfriend but just don't have sex ok?" ..... i mean come on.... (FYI i only used john so that u would know that "God" was talking to a male. ok?) and he probably says something about being gay and non-sexually active somewhere too but i have to go so i can't find it right now but when i come back i'll try to remember to do that.
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:25 pm
Homosexuality is a sin. plain, simple and clear cut. but don't go around hating them. we need to be like Jesus and show love while not pushing it at them so that they hate us. moderation in all things and the will of God. just live like jesus (to the best of your human abilities whee )
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:31 pm
DistortedDark Cradoc Oh, but I AM totally against 'gay Christian churches' the Bible clearly states its against Gods will (if you want I can get verses) and thus 'gay Christian churches' are as hypocritical as the main medevil church. well... we can minister and witness to homosexuals... btu a "gay church" doesn't even make sense... God doesn't want us to be gay. not that a gay person can't be a Christian... but if they already ARE a Christian they need some help and if they are becoming a Christian or are a NEW Christian then someone needs to slowly break it to them in a way they won't get offended or mad... that could harden their hearts towards Christianity as a whole and that would not be good.
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:13 pm
MangaTurtle Homosexuality is a sin. plain, simple and clear cut. but don't go around hating them. we need to be like Jesus and show love while not pushing it at them so that they hate us. moderation in all things and the will of God. just live like jesus (to the best of your human abilities whee ) Exactly!
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:10 pm
lilacluva05 DistortedDark Cradoc Oh, but I AM totally against 'gay Christian churches' the Bible clearly states its against Gods will (if you want I can get verses) and thus 'gay Christian churches' are as hypocritical as the main medevil church. well... we can minister and witness to homosexuals... btu a "gay church" doesn't even make sense... God doesn't want us to be gay. not that a gay person can't be a Christian... but if they already ARE a Christian they need some help and if they are becoming a Christian or are a NEW Christian then someone needs to slowly break it to them in a way they won't get offended or mad... that could harden their hearts towards Christianity as a whole and that would not be good. Harden yourself to all Christians and you harden yourself to Christ thus condemning yourself.
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:11 pm
Guitarhero356 MangaTurtle Homosexuality is a sin. plain, simple and clear cut. but don't go around hating them. we need to be like Jesus and show love while not pushing it at them so that they hate us. moderation in all things and the will of God. just live like jesus (to the best of your human abilities whee ) Exactly! yepernoodle.
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:58 pm
Cradoc Guitarhero356 MangaTurtle Homosexuality is a sin. plain, simple and clear cut. but don't go around hating them. we need to be like Jesus and show love while not pushing it at them so that they hate us. moderation in all things and the will of God. just live like jesus (to the best of your human abilities whee ) Exactly! yepernoodle. *repeats, "yepernoole" to self* rofl rofl rofl
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