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 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:42 am
PersianPapiiChulo So can use and follow Wiccan practices or concepts without being Intiated, your just not Wiccan. That helps tremendously! Thank you. Well, no. You don't have access to Wiccan practices without initiation. You can base your own practice on what you've read about Wicca, but understand that what Wicca is, essentially, is something we cannot access. What Sweet was saying is that there are bits and pieces that form a part of Wiccan practices that we have access to, and these things are the parts that are adopted by others for incorporation into their practices. But without the context of Wicca itself, they aren't "Wiccan practices". Clear as mud? wink
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:47 am
Nah. I get it. For instance you cant really train like a Buddhist Monk under the Dama Lama without being in that Monastery, but you can incorporate some of the practices that are known about outside of the Monastery into your daily life.
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:20 pm
Here's a couple for ya.
What are the names of the various traditions of Wicca, and what is the diffrence between them? I know there is the Gardnerian Tradition, and the Alexandrian Tradition, but what else is there?
I've gotten "mixed" information about who this Gerald Gardner fella' was. Some places have told me he "invented" Wicca, whereas others tell me that Wicca already existed, but was dying, and he saved it. Still others have told me that he simply broke away from his original coven, formed a new one, and called what they practiced the "Gardnerian Tradition" of Wicca (sorry about the quotes, it's sort of a way of setting it off from everything else. Not offense is meant by it). So would anybody mind clearing this up for me? Who was he, and why so many versions of who he was?
One final question: If Wicca is a fertility-based religion, rather than an Earth-based religion. Why do so many people think it's Earth-based, and what particular facet, if any, of fertility is being referred to?
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:57 pm
roller-chick361 Here's a couple for ya. What are the names of the various traditions of Wicca, and what is the diffrence between them? I know there is the Gardnerian Tradition, and the Alexandrian Tradition, but what else is there? Silver Crescent, Kingstone, Central Vally, Daoine Coir, Mohsian and Majestic are all traditions- there are some others traditions that have lineage, but some lines within those traditions have changed the core of the religion so they aren't really Wiccan anymore. Quote: I've gotten "mixed" information about who this Gerald Gardner fella' was. Some places have told me he "invented" Wicca, whereas others tell me that Wicca already existed, but was dying, and he saved it. Still others have told me that he simply broke away from his original coven, formed a new one, and called what they practiced the "Gardnerian Tradition" of Wicca (sorry about the quotes, it's sort of a way of setting it off from everything else. Not offense is meant by it). So would anybody mind clearing this up for me? Who was he, and why so many versions of who he was? Even lineaged Wiccans disagree on this- so I'll share some of the opinions of the coven Elders I studied under. One Kingstone HP claimed it was an underground tradition dating back forever. An Alexandrian HPS mentioned that it could have been born from a theater group doing after hour Cast Parties with a "Witchy Bent". My HPS thinks Gardner didn't really invent it, as much as he took what he was given from the coven that initiated him, added to it and started his own coven. Without any disrespect- I think the Kingstone HP was wrong. Gardner wanted to make things look older and some people still cling to that. I trust my HPS's view- given her age and experience, as well as who she knew personally and conversations she had that aren't any of my business as a Seeker. I think Gardner fibbed- but I don't think he spun his fibs out of thin air- I think there was some small truth that was distorted a 100 times over to suit his goals. Quote: One final question: If Wicca is a fertility-based religion, rather than an Earth-based religion. Why do so many people think it's Earth-based, and what particular facet, if any, of fertility is being referred to? I think the "Earth Based" stuff comes from a bunch of different places- from Seekers doing some work but leaving before being initiated, from people watching those former Seekers, from people trying to tell the difference between paganism and "Heavenly" religions- I think it all just got jumbled up. Maybe someone whose initiated can give better answers- I'm still learning. The major book that people reference is Hutton's Triumph of the Moon.
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:01 pm
roller-chick361 Here's a couple for ya. What are the names of the various traditions of Wicca, and what is the diffrence between them? I know there is the Gardnerian Tradition, and the Alexandrian Tradition, but what else is there? I've gotten "mixed" information about who this Gerald Gardner fella' was. Some places have told me he "invented" Wicca, whereas others tell me that Wicca already existed, but was dying, and he saved it. Still others have told me that he simply broke away from his original coven, formed a new one, and called what they practiced the "Gardnerian Tradition" of Wicca (sorry about the quotes, it's sort of a way of setting it off from everything else. Not offense is meant by it). So would anybody mind clearing this up for me? Who was he, and why so many versions of who he was? One final question: If Wicca is a fertility-based religion, rather than an Earth-based religion. Why do so many people think it's Earth-based, and what particular facet, if any, of fertility is being referred to? Lineaged traditions of Wicca are: Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Mohsian, Central Valley, Silver Crescent, Kingstone, Daoine Coire, Assembly of Wicca, and Majestic. It's hard to give more than a general answer regarding the difference between traditions. Major differences between these traditions is really 'flavour' - quirks, thoughts, or ways of doing things that are particular to a tradition or a specific lineage, or even an individual coven. Basically people leave their own personal imprint on things as they are passed down - and as the 3rds and elders may add to their traditions without taking away, the 'flavour' of a tradition develops organically over time. Aside from that, it's difficult to be specific about the differences between trads. All of them uphold the core of Wiccan practice; otherwise, to really know or understand the specifics of a tradition, one really has to be an initiate of that trad. It's frowned upon to be a 'collector' of initiations. It's rare to find someone with initiation in more than two traditions - and normal to be suspicious of people who treat initiations like a game of Pokémon. Wicca is purely Gardner's creation. It's based on the skeletal rites of the earlier witchcult he became a member of, but filled in with all sorts of things he gathered over time. Essentially it's formed from eclectic sources, but since it itself never changes, Wicca is not an eclectic faith. Ronald Hutton puts out a pretty good case with evidence that Wicca is Gardner's alone. Also try http://www.geraldgardner.com/. No idea why people think Wicca is earth-based, aside from new-age hippy infection in the 60's and 70's. It's pretty much your basic fertility - the creation of life via male and female.
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:20 pm
Thanks for answering that for me guys. In regards to the question about fertility-based, versus earth-based, I was really just confused as to whether it was talking about fertile soil, or fertile egg and sperm cells.
I think the former may also have had a contribution to the earth-based sort of thinking most people have in regards to Wicca. Following that strain of thinking, fertility, fertile soil, soil, soil is... EARTH! Eureka! lol anywho, I think that may have had something to do with it as well.
Thanks to Morgandria and Esiris for being so quick to answer.
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:39 pm
I may be wrong here, but my understanding is that it could be about fertility more generally, but that we understand it or interpret it through male-female huamn sex.
Or something.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:41 pm
Morgandria No idea why people think Wicca is earth-based, aside from new-age hippy infection in the 60's and 70's. It's pretty much your basic fertility - the creation of life via male and female. This is something I've been thinking a lot about recently. While there is a lot of evidence that the early ecclectic writers have most to answer on the subject, there are traces that go to the hand of Gardner himself, or at least what was claimed to be. The 1957 Kelly BoS contains a declaration to candidates whereby they are asked: "O thou who hast declared intent to become one of us, hear then that which thou must know to do[...] that thou lovest all things in nature;..." Now, this has never to my knowledge been a part of any legitimate Alexandrian Book and is not found in any form in mine. But it has been out there and is a possible source that may have seemed credible to those early ENP authors.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:46 pm
roller-chick361 Thanks for answering that for me guys. In regards to the question about fertility-based, versus earth-based, I was really just confused as to whether it was talking about fertile soil, or fertile egg and sperm cells. I think the former may also have had a contribution to the earth-based sort of thinking most people have in regards to Wicca. Following that strain of thinking, fertility, fertile soil, soil, soil is... EARTH! Eureka! lol anywho, I think that may have had something to do with it as well. Thanks to Morgandria and Esiris for being so quick to answer. The way that I tend to explain the fertility thing to people is that it is a cosmology thing. Cosmology being a particular way in which a person views the universe etc. A very useful analogy of recent creation is from the LHC, you kowthat big machiene in Europe where they smach protons together to re-create the moments following the big bang? Well, Sex = Fertilty in Wicca can be equaled to LHC = Proton Sex. Dynamic Polarity is the cornerstone of the cosmology of Fertility in Wicca. Dynamic Polarity causes creation. Creation is the ultimate fertility. Everything is caused by proton sex.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:34 am
I suppose I should edit my intro post... I didn't know everything was so rigid. I'm an eclectic solitary, so some of that information is completely new to me.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:03 am
Lovely Witch Nioda I suppose I should edit my intro post... I didn't know everything was so rigid. I'm an eclectic solitary, so some of that information is completely new to me. Well, it's why we have that sticky - most people don't get the chance to talk to actual initiates or covens of traditional Wiccans, and you're certainly going to have a hard time finding out that from the majority of books, or websites. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:06 am
Morgandria Lovely Witch Nioda I suppose I should edit my intro post... I didn't know everything was so rigid. I'm an eclectic solitary, so some of that information is completely new to me. Well, it's why we have that sticky - most people don't get the chance to talk to actual initiates or covens of traditional Wiccans, and you're certainly going to have a hard time finding out that from the majority of books, or websites. 3nodding
Or from anyone where I live. -.- The Bible Belt sucks. I've had to learn everything on my own from the start.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:31 am
Lovely Witch Nioda Or from anyone where I live. -.- The Bible Belt sucks. I've had to learn everything on my own from the start. We all start somewhere. I'm from a small rural town and had the same start. I learned on my own for a good 10 years before I had the chance to meet other Pagans, and I didn't get the chance to meet anyone involved with BTW for a further 5 years. You do need a good bullshit detector to make it on your own, and the ability to read critically, and do research - but you can do it and do it well. Don't let it discourage you. There are covens located all over parts of the Bible Belt, BTW or otherwise. Trad Wiccans don't tend to make themselves obvious, though, or easily accessible - you do have to work a bit to find them, and work a bit more to actually interact with them. That's by design. smile
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:39 am
Morgandria We all start somewhere. I'm from a small rural town and had the same start. I learned on my own for a good 10 years before I had the chance to meet other Pagans, and I didn't get the chance to meet anyone involved with BTW for a further 5 years. You do need a good bullshit detector to make it on your own, and the ability to read critically, and do research - but you can do it and do it well. Don't let it discourage you. There are covens located all over parts of the Bible Belt, BTW or otherwise. Trad Wiccans don't tend to make themselves obvious, though, or easily accessible - you do have to work a bit to find them, and work a bit more to actually interact with them. That's by design. smile
I'm really glad I joined this guild. I'm not really sure I'd do very well in a coven. I'm not used to being in groups of people.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:39 pm
Lovely Witch Nioda I'm really glad I joined this guild. I'm not really sure I'd do very well in a coven. I'm not used to being in groups of people.
I used to think the same thing, until I found a group that I clicked with. Covens are all individual, and will have their own personality and dynamic. The trick to finding a group is to find one that you fit. The nice thing is that covens, Wiccan or otherwise, are all autonomous - they have their own personal authority, so it's not like if you don't fit into one that you won't fit into any of them, or that it means you're rejected from that tradition entirely. It just means you keep looking. smile But there's nothing that says you have to join a coven to be a witch, or to practice neo-pagan paths. Working with a group is completely optional there - it's specifically Wicca that requires a coven to learn and practice. Lots of people are very happy doing their own thing, for their own reasons, and it doesn't make their paths lesser or invalid.
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