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 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:28 pm
Yanueh Seraphsody The difference between the animals that die in the production of plants and the animals that are meant to die in the production of animals that you eat, are that a) we don't bring insects and small wild mammals into existence for the purpose of killing them with the thresher. and b) you get to add all those little animals onto your plate as well because the animals you eat, are eating plants as well. [Kegan] I don't judge... aloud, but by your own logic you are a double murderer. Those animals eat plants too. Allowing an animal to graze doesn't require you to seek out and destroy insects and the eggs of insects that would destroy your tasty and delicious crops. Gardening does. And how can I be a murderer by my own logic when I do not equate either action to murder? [Kegan] --And mammals show a significant deal more brain power than bugs. That is for certain. Just wondering, do you, in fact, have a 'brainpower line' that you draw defining what is and isn't acceptable to kill? It seems to me that the whole matter is one of very fuzzy logic for either side. Nope you seemed very insistent moments ago that vegetarians had compromised morals, by killing bugs. Most gardeners actually just try to attract the natural predators(Here they do, at least) I do infact have a brainpower line, though. Bugs: Okay, go for it, but I'm not gonna eat them, so why bother? Fish: Don't care for fish, as it tastes too much like meat for my tastes, but as a rule, most are pretty brainless and would barely act to save themselves, relying on more of a ******** to survive method. Some are rather intelligent, though. Birds: Birds... Possibly smarter than the Youtube user who doubles up superlatives."Go pick up corn." And mammals, well, we are mammals, but so are dogs, and we all show self preserving behavior, and intelligence.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:41 pm
Regardless of the discussion above.. stare
I personally think it's a beautiful picture, Yanueh.
We have cows that graze in the field behind my house, though they are not ours. I enjoy them at times, but sometimes they can be a bit of a nuisance when it's mating season or they escape the fence.
There used to be a lot more before the goverment paid the farmers to grow crops instead of livestock last year, now there's only a few that roam around out there. Meat cows as they are, I wish they were fat milk cows. whee I love the chubby utters. heart
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:00 pm
They're going to be dragged bellowing in fear to their death someday. That's the future you decide for something you think is beautiful. Nothing is beautiful in that kind of death, there is no beauty in it. Just our domination and cruelty.
You're saying your cows never ever get grain? You specifically don't eat any meat that doesn't come from the farm you met? If so then good for you, you're more intrusive and disruptive than vegetarians. "Do you eat meat?" "Yes." "OK!" "Oh wait! I only eat meat that comes from farmer bob,"
How is that my logic? I say that animals shouldn't be raised to be killed now. I can't change the past, and if you let the mustangs go free they'll come back, they get their herds 'thinned' regularly and are contained to specific areas.
You say that mustangs don't matter because the Europeans brought them, and they aren't 'native' to the land scape.
Hoop logic has holes.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:13 pm
Quote: You say that mustangs don't matter because the Europeans brought them, and they aren't 'native' to the land scape. I pointed this out because you seemed to be saying that cattle should not be allowed to graze the area because they aren't native. Anyway, I originally created the thread to demonstrate that cattle in many parts of the country aren't kept in pens or 'unnatural' conditions their whole lives, not to start a nasty debate. (I wholly admit, the debate that ensued is partially my fault.) Since I don't think that this thread can possibly continue civilly, I'm considering locking it, because in the end, I suspect we'll all end up blowing a lot of hot air when we could be doing something more constructive with our time.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:56 pm
Mustangs aren't there to service our luxuries. They have actually adapted rather nicely, and have natural predators.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:26 pm
heart
That's a very familiar sight for me. You see many many free range cows (and even buffalo and horses) while driving through the prairie provinces (saskatchewan, alberta, and manitoba).
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:34 pm
Yanueh Quote: You say that mustangs don't matter because the Europeans brought them, and they aren't 'native' to the land scape. I pointed this out because you seemed to be saying that cattle should not be allowed to graze the area because they aren't native. Anyway, I originally created the thread to demonstrate that cattle in many parts of the country aren't kept in pens or 'unnatural' conditions their whole lives, not to start a nasty debate. (I wholly admit, the debate that ensued is partially my fault.) Since I don't think that this thread can possibly continue civilly, I'm considering locking it, because in the end, I suspect we'll all end up blowing a lot of hot air when we could be doing something more constructive with our time. No. I said that the fact that cattle graze there having some effect on wild fires has no bearing on this discussion because the things that were there before were removed for your cattle which are bred to die. They're only there because you and your ilk plan to kill them (god complex?). Yes. Lets all go back to deluding ourselves that because we're eating animals that aren't from a factory farm some percentage of the time that those animals don't die the same horrible way as the rest of them, far before their time. Good work, you met your meat, looked it in the eye in its prime and wandered away, with it sitting peacefully in the grass behind you. Go when its slaughtered. See if your steadfast gaze, witness to its torment is any comfort to it as it chokes on its own blood upside down.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Why does it seem like Yaneuh is being attacked?
Honestly, your opinions are not going to change anything about her. Just like her opinions are not going to change any of yours.
So why bicker like this?
Humans were made to eat meat, hince the teeth. We also have brains, so we fired it up and figured out how farm animals. This has been going on for years, to the point that if we actually let the now domesticated animals out, they would be wiped out in a year by that area's preditors.
The cows that live next to us are the happiest cows I've seen. Infact, the farmer who owns them goes out of his way to make sure they have everything they need. Then does his best to make sure they don't suffer when it's their time.
It sucks, I know. But some people just aren't going to bend over backwards to not eat meat, especially when they need it or just like to eat it.
Humans are finding new ways to kill animal more humanely, I know I'm supporting this.
If you want us to stop eatting cattle, chickens, fish..
How exactly do you plan on the world's meats eaters to eat? We need what's in that meat, it's good for us. One of my favorite things about it is that I don't have to take as much insulin because it's carb-less which is a big deal to me. As a Diabetic I watch what I eat enough, the last thing I need is the extra pressure of being a Vegetarian. Vegan being the worst for me.
So please, explain what I should start eating instead of it? Or how I should start obtaining all the health benefits of meat without actually touching the stuff?
If you're against eating meat, that's cool, more power to you. But don't shove your opinions down my throat, especially if you don't like it being done to you. :/ This hostility is pointless and rude.
We are animals and animals do some pretty sick things, it's life.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:48 pm
Seraphsody Go when its slaughtered. See if your steadfast gaze, witness to its torment is any comfort to it as it chokes on its own blood upside down. Last I checked, Most of the farmers around where I live make sure that doesn't happen. There's a metal rod thats goes straight through the skull so they die instantly and painlessly.
Honestly, where exactly do they still do that? And why have they not been stopped?
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:32 pm
Quote: How exactly do you plan on the world's meats eaters to eat? We need what's in that meat, it's good for us. One of my favorite things about it is that I don't have to take as much insulin because it's carb-less which is a big deal to me. As a Diabetic I watch what I eat enough, the last thing I need is the extra pressure of being a Vegetarian. Vegan being the worst for me. Actually, many people live quite healthily without meat, but for many people with bloodsugar issues, a vegetarian or vegan diet is the absolute worst thing you could do to them. I'm hypoglycemic, and carbohydrate-based diets do not have good effects on me or my family. THAT is why we eat meat.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:38 pm
I think it's great that you know where at least some (I don't know what % of what you eat comes from your local farms) of your meat comes from. whee If everyone had the chance and actually visited where the majority of their food is grown/raised, I think they'd have a much better idea of what they're putting into their mouths.
It was quite the eye-opener for me when I moved to Arizona and saw wild cows. There are predators here, but not many that are big enough to bring down a full-sized cow. They mostly go after the rabbits and smaller game. But the cows here definitely aren't the fat, happy, farm-raised cattle that I saw all the time in Texas, except for the ones that're kept fenced in and fed well.
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:30 am
That's how cattle are raised out here, Yanueh, free range. And bison, deer, elk, goats, sheep-----we raised our chickens, ducks, guineas, and geese that way, too. And yes, we did the slaughtering and butchering ourselves, and we ate them, and shared with those who needed food.
Everyone cannot be vegetarian, or vegan, and be healthy. The main argument here seems to be that killing animals for food is cruel. You could try explaining that to the animals who kill for food, but I doubt that they would be able to see your point. If people were taken out of the equation, there would still be lots of death, not only from predators, but also from malnutrition, disease, natural disasters......farmers and ranchers take care of their animals, protect them from as much as they can, and do their best to keep them healthy.
There is no need to jump into a raging philosophical argument every time a vegetarian and a meat-eating human cross paths. Every one of us does what they do for a reason, and we all know the other side of the argument.
Do what is right for you as far as your diet is concerned, and agree to disagree on the rest of it.
Nice picture, Yanueh. Thanks for posting it.
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![[Kegan]'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/32/d0/3e9c16b12dd032_flip.png?t=1509381123_6.00_11)
