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Yeah so? The fact he received criticism, even from other Christians, is a good thing right? I personally think he's the last person I'd want to take theological advice or stances from seeing how ignorant he is of his own religion.

ok I personally think War is horrible, but I do have some questionable issues... For one thing WAY BACK WHEN the Crusades were happening don't it say in the Bible something like "Thou shall not kill!" SO WHY DID THE POPE SAY GO CHRISTIAN KNIGHTS GO AND KILL THOSE MUSLIMS!!! Like it never made sense to me since everyone was real hardcore christian back then and no one questioned the pope. Now a days don't most Religions think fighting is a horrible idea so why do people go GOD SAYS ITS OK SO GO AND KILL THEM!! It just doesn't make sense, I mean if it were a war god like Ares or something like him then I understand why they fight but if there Christian or Muslim or Jewish doesn't their God Condone violence?

I'd stay away from the founding fathers argument-I just google searched it and there's so much both for and against it, that I wouldn't say with any certainty that any of them were Christian or not.

Sites that might be fair:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/012349.html
http://my.execpc.com/~awallace/revision.htm

Because there's always going to be idiots that use truth to excuse their doing bad things. That doesn't mean they were right, or that God supports it.


And Artto, Christians are supposed to live by the 'love your God and your neighbor rule' more then any other-those Christians were wrong, whatever OT support they had.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? This statement is very unclear.

Yeah most of the founding Fathers were deist which means that they did believe in a God, just not a personal one as is taught in Christianity. Christians are not the only type of theists ya know. The evidence for this is that is that many were Masons which required one to be believe in a Supreme Being to be a member. The main argument against "under God" is that it was included during the Communist scare and Communist leaders were purporting to be atheist. So it was believed that a communist supporter was atheist. Hence the inclusion into the Pledge since it was believed that communism was against democracy.

yeah in the US but you are neglecting first world European nations where atheism was not stigmatized by the "Red Scare"

Not when you have many reasons for believing in the fact. There is no way to disprove gods existence, whether you can out debate somebody, outsmart somebody. It's a question of philosophy and science. Science can't disprove his existence, but it can't prove it either. Philosophy merely uses long winded discussions.

Agnosticism is about knowledge. I don't KNOW god doesn't exist. I'm an agnostic.

Atheism is about belief. I don't BELIEVE god exists. I'm an atheist.

So, I'm an agnostic atheist.