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LimeIzMyFaveColor

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:49 am


alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.


I wont run for socialist/communist.

Why thank you for your "vote!"
You know I heard George Bush's nephew: George P. Bush wanted to run for president in the future ... wouldn' that be crazy if I did run for president and I ran against him. Haha.

Oh and what are your views on the enviroment?
Do you guys think global warming is for real?
According to something I read, I heard the climate was getting colder except Florida which is getting warmer.
I think we should take care of the environment, but I dont think there should be so many laws.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:00 am


global warming is definitely real
have you seen the movie "an inconvenient truth"?

dl1371


Lethkhar

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:02 pm


LimeIzMyFaveColor
well in the future
all of those old conservatives will die off.
i'm not a communist
but i see what you see mean.

damn if i was to get elected:
I be the first atheist (i think?), first asian (i'm 1/2 i do believe), first bisexual to become president.

So you're going for the 2124 election, huh? wink
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:07 pm


dl1371
alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.

communists are more for violent revolution and its a more extreme form of socialism

I think you're confusing communism with Leninism. Leninism is a type of communism which insists that the only way in which communism can come about is violent revolution. Most communists are actually Marxists, who believe that it'll just inevitably come about as society progresses.

Lethkhar


dl1371

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:10 pm


Lethkhar
dl1371
alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.

communists are more for violent revolution and its a more extreme form of socialism

I think you're confusing communism with Leninism. Leninism is a type of communism which insists that the only way in which communism can come about is violent revolution. Most communists are actually Marxists, who believe that it'll just inevitably come about as society progresses.

marxists believe in revolution too
im not sure they specify what type though
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:22 pm


LimeIzMyFaveColor


Quote:

Other points to consider:

Quote:
6.) I'm not so big on Universal Health Care; but welfare and medicare/medicaid is fine.

What's wrong with the public option? There are a lot of people who are denied coverage for pre-existing conditions, and in many cases even when people can afford healthcare and are covered, the insurance company will find a loophole to avoid paying for costs even when the individual is supposed to be insured. Fact is, we've seen much more positive statistics regarding healthcare coverage and expenses coming out of European nations which are mostly socialized healthcare. Plus, the public option would reduce national deficits according to the Congressional Budget Office estimates.

I will keep this in mind. I recently heard about the bill that got passed in the House of Representatives, where people had to buy health insurance or they will be fined/jailed.

The new House bill is bullshit. It's been torn to shreds by conservatives (Both Democrat and Republican) who are owned by the insurance industry. Yes, it mandates that everyone have coverage; who do you think that'll benefit? Oh, yes, the insurance industry. I find it quite ironic that while people accuse liberals of "taking over" and trying to "control people", the conservatives are the ones that actually make the mandates.

To be fair, it does regulate the insurance industry a bit better, though it doesn't regulate premiums so any regulation it does will probably just end up raising premiums. It does have a public option, albeit a weak option that doesn't even cover everybody.

And once we add the Senate's bill, which is probably going to be even worse...If I were king for a day...

Quote:
Does this mean: There is going to be no more medicaid/medicare?

The House bill actually expands Medicaid.

Quote:
And I don't think the government should force the people to do such a thing. I think the people should have the option of buying the government's health insurance if they want to (is that that the public option)

Yes, that's the public option. It doesn't sound to controversial when you think about it, and yet our country always seems to have trouble doing it even when the majority support it. Goddamned Russians...

Lethkhar


Lethkhar

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:24 pm


dl1371
Lethkhar
dl1371
alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.

communists are more for violent revolution and its a more extreme form of socialism

I think you're confusing communism with Leninism. Leninism is a type of communism which insists that the only way in which communism can come about is violent revolution. Most communists are actually Marxists, who believe that it'll just inevitably come about as society progresses.

marxists believe in revolution too
im not sure they specify what type though

http://www.econlog.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Marx.html

"According to Marx, capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction. Communism was the inevitable end to the process of evolution begun with feudalism and passing through capitalism and socialism."
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:32 pm


LimeIzMyFaveColor
alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.


I wont run for socialist/communist.

Why thank you for your "vote!"
You know I heard George Bush's nephew: George P. Bush wanted to run for president in the future ... wouldn' that be crazy if I did run for president and I ran against him. Haha.

Oh and what are your views on the enviroment?
Do you guys think global warming is for real?
According to something I read, I heard the climate was getting colder except Florida which is getting warmer.
I think we should take care of the environment, but I dont think there should be so many laws.

My dad is a fisheries biologist who tracks fish in Alaska. Every year, he goes to Alaska to catch and survey fish. He's been doing it for almost 20 years.

Over just that short time, he has had to go farther and farther north in order to catch the fish he was originally sampling in the early 90's. A couple years ago, he started catching fish that you could only find off the coast of California when he started.

He says that in his field, the idea that there's a debate over global climate change is laughable. He doesn't know of anyone in his field who disagrees that global climate change is taking place.

Lethkhar


dl1371

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:35 pm


Lethkhar
dl1371
Lethkhar
dl1371
alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.

communists are more for violent revolution and its a more extreme form of socialism

I think you're confusing communism with Leninism. Leninism is a type of communism which insists that the only way in which communism can come about is violent revolution. Most communists are actually Marxists, who believe that it'll just inevitably come about as society progresses.

marxists believe in revolution too
im not sure they specify what type though

http://www.econlog.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Marx.html

"According to Marx, capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction. Communism was the inevitable end to the process of evolution begun with feudalism and passing through capitalism and socialism."

are you arguing against me or with me
cause that didnt really prove that he didnt believe in revolution
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:53 pm


dl1371
Lethkhar
dl1371
Lethkhar
dl1371
alteregoivy
Haha, I think we agree on all of your social points and disagree on all of your financial points.

I am extremely socially liberal and an economic socialist (or communist? What's the difference?).

But I know no one is ever going to run under that ticket. I would probably vote for you just on social liberalism and atheism.

communists are more for violent revolution and its a more extreme form of socialism

I think you're confusing communism with Leninism. Leninism is a type of communism which insists that the only way in which communism can come about is violent revolution. Most communists are actually Marxists, who believe that it'll just inevitably come about as society progresses.

marxists believe in revolution too
im not sure they specify what type though

http://www.econlog.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Marx.html

"According to Marx, capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction. Communism was the inevitable end to the process of evolution begun with feudalism and passing through capitalism and socialism."

are you arguing against me or with me
cause that didnt really prove that he didnt believe in revolution

Why would somebody violently revolt if they knew change was going to come about anyway?

Karl Marx said things would inevitably change to become more communist, either through peaceable or violent means by an organized proletariat. He never actually told people to violently revolt.

Leninism takes Marxism a step farther in saying that it is up to a revolutionary party to incite that change.

And Stalinism takes Leninism yet another step farther in saying,"F*ck you, Lenin and Marx! Morality is for the weak!"

Lethkhar


dl1371

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:11 pm


Lethkhar
dl1371
Lethkhar
dl1371

marxists believe in revolution too
im not sure they specify what type though

http://www.econlog.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Marx.html

"According to Marx, capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction. Communism was the inevitable end to the process of evolution begun with feudalism and passing through capitalism and socialism."

are you arguing against me or with me
cause that didnt really prove that he didnt believe in revolution

Why would somebody violently revolt if they knew change was going to come about anyway?

Karl Marx said things would inevitably change to become more communist, either through peaceable or violent means by an organized proletariat. He never actually told people to violently revolt.

Leninism takes Marxism a step farther in saying that it is up to a revolutionary party to incite that change.

And Stalinism takes Leninism yet another step farther in saying,"F*ck you, Lenin and Marx! Morality is for the weak!"

im pretty sure marxism had a flow chart
and between capitalism and communism there was a period called revolution
basically, hes saying that communism will come around after a revolution away from capitalism because capitalism will be corrupted by huge companies
wikipedia
The Communist Manifesto (184 cool established that a communist revolution would occur only under specific conditions — including the pre-condition of an economically-exhausted industrialized nation.


i never said that marxism told people to violently revolt
i just said that most communist theories believe in violent revolution

also, marx considered communism socialism
i was talking about how nowadays communism and socialism are different.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:08 pm


Thanks for the info on the Communist / Socialist scene guys. 3nodding

As for global warming, my understanding is that about 99.9% of the scientific population around the world agree that a) climate change is real and that b) it is at least exacerbated by human actions.

To alleviate that, I think that there should be very strict regulations on pollution, but there should also be just as heavy incentives to come up with cleaner solutions. There is a problem, and it's only going to get worse. However, without a global consumer effort, it's pretty much up to the business sectors to make sure things change.

There's also the issue of wildlife, and the dying off of species.

I do not like hunting and killing of animals. However, people are very unlikely to protect things that are not a financial boon, especially in impoverished rural areas where a lot of the last refuges of wildlife are. I think that in order to save our endangered species, we need to give them a use, make them financially advantageous to raise in a sustainable manner, and THEN people will care and want to take care of them. For example, a lot of wildlife in Afirca is making a comeback as the wildlife refuges are used for tourism and, yes, for hunting. I may not like the hunting, but it makes the people selling the chance to hunt them make sure that the population isn't going to crash, and makes sure that poachers stay out.

alteregoivy


dl1371

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:18 pm


alteregoivy
Thanks for the info on the Communist / Socialist scene guys. 3nodding

your welcome biggrin
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:17 pm


dl1371
Lethkhar
dl1371
Lethkhar

http://www.econlog.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Marx.html

"According to Marx, capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction. Communism was the inevitable end to the process of evolution begun with feudalism and passing through capitalism and socialism."

are you arguing against me or with me
cause that didnt really prove that he didnt believe in revolution

Why would somebody violently revolt if they knew change was going to come about anyway?

Karl Marx said things would inevitably change to become more communist, either through peaceable or violent means by an organized proletariat. He never actually told people to violently revolt.

Leninism takes Marxism a step farther in saying that it is up to a revolutionary party to incite that change.

And Stalinism takes Leninism yet another step farther in saying,"F*ck you, Lenin and Marx! Morality is for the weak!"

im pretty sure marxism had a flow chart
and between capitalism and socialism there was a period called revolution
basically, hes saying that communism will come around after a revolution away from capitalism because capitalism will be corrupted by huge companies
wikipedia
The Communist Manifesto (184 cool established that a communist revolution would occur only under specific conditions — including the pre-condition of an economically-exhausted industrialized nation.


i never said that marxism told people to violently revolt
i just said that most communist theories believe in violent revolution

You described communism as a more violent form of socialism, when in fact communism is not inherently violent. Also, it is true that Marx believed that in order fr socialism to come about there had to be a rising up of the proletariat, but it didn't have to be violent. The transition is going from the means of production belonging to the bourgeoisie to belonging to the proletariat, and obviously there's going to be some class struggle whenever you do that. I probably misunderstood you, and for that I'm sorry. My point was only that Marx was not a violent person, and communists are not violent people. It's just all those damned Soviets that give them a bad name.

Quote:
also, marx considered communism socialism
i was talking about how nowadays communism and socialism are different

Marx considered socialism to be a step on the way to communism-To refer back to the "flow chart" you mentioned, socialism is the thing between capitalism and communism. I think they've always been different.

Lethkhar

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!!!The Green Apple Undertow!!! - [the random subforum]

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