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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:05 pm
No, it is a fact that the death penalty costs more than putting someone in jail for life.
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:53 pm
Pandali No, it is a fact that the death penalty costs more than putting someone in jail for life. How so? If a criminal was convicted early enough, say 24, they could very well make it into the 'million dollar club'. Meaning, they have now officially costs the state or provence they reside in 1,000,000 dollars to keep them fed, clothed, housed, and alive. So.... that needle with posion in it costs, what, 2,000,000 each? eek Anyway, proof please.
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:53 am
Mcphee Pandali Gay Rights - I'm not sure yet what I think about this.
Most people I've met have an opinion about that one-- Usually set in stone.
It's hard to find someone who wavers on that issue.I don't have an opinion. I find it a repulsive issue, I just ignore it...
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:14 pm
Mistress DragonFlame Pandali No, it is a fact that the death penalty costs more than putting someone in jail for life. How so? If a criminal was convicted early enough, say 24, they could very well make it into the 'million dollar club'. Meaning, they have now officially costs the state or provence they reside in 1,000,000 dollars to keep them fed, clothed, housed, and alive. So.... that needle with posion in it costs, what, 2,000,000 each? eek Anyway, proof please. here are some links for proof: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7 http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html http://www.sunfyre.com/deathpenalty.html http://www.thepubliccause.net/DeathPenalty.html#DeathPenaltyArguments
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:22 pm
Gay Rights- For! If I choose to, I may like to be married to a woman some day. No one in mind, but I'd like the option to be open for me. I have a big rant, but no point in posting it right now unless someone's up for a gay right's debate. xd
President Bush- Ugh, I.Am knows my stance here. (Which reminds me, I kinda abandoned his and my debate. Sorry about that.) While I respect that he is so upfront and sticks to his beliefs, the war on Iraq had no political reasoning behind it.
Sex before Marriage- Whatever, sex is over-rated. If you want to wait until after marriage, all the more power to you. If not, go for it. It's not a biggie, considering I'm not a virgin that should be apparent.
Death penalty- Against. Very against. A life is a life. Killing is killing. Sure maybe they don't deserve to live, but it's not our right as humans with faults to determine who lives and who dies.
Sorry to quote the bible, I'm not Christian but it's a quote I really like, and try to live by; "Let he without sin cast the first stone."
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:29 pm
kp606 Mcphee Pandali Gay Rights - I'm not sure yet what I think about this.
Most people I've met have an opinion about that one-- Usually set in stone.
It's hard to find someone who wavers on that issue.I don't have an opinion. I find it a repulsive issue, I just ignore it...
Well, that's really your prerogative.
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:32 pm
Pandali Mistress DragonFlame Pandali No, it is a fact that the death penalty costs more than putting someone in jail for life. How so? If a criminal was convicted early enough, say 24, they could very well make it into the 'million dollar club'. Meaning, they have now officially costs the state or provence they reside in 1,000,000 dollars to keep them fed, clothed, housed, and alive. So.... that needle with posion in it costs, what, 2,000,000 each? eek Anyway, proof please. here are some links for proof: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7 http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html http://www.sunfyre.com/deathpenalty.html http://www.thepubliccause.net/DeathPenalty.html#DeathPenaltyArguments Good arguments.... BUT, here comes another facter. Once they are setnaced Death, have it carried out within the year, and no appeals. Life witout parole? Well, here's Death without appeal. mad
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:32 am
Lelas President Bush - Evil, ignorant, and hypocritical. I loathe him. "Oh, I'm so pro-life! Yay! Death penalty! Yay! War!" lol xd Quote: Well, actually...I would think that supporting an inmate for their whole lives on tax money would be much, much more expensive than giving them the death sentence. Not that I think saving money is a reason to put people to death. eek Some inmates can spend a good proportion of their natural lives on death row. There will be numerous appeals, going on sometimes for years, and of course the deaths of innocent people. I suggest people read Lethal Justice (you can't really get a hold of it in America on official sites, on Amazon it's $100...but look for it on ebay $10 tops) and others like it. People don't just get convicted fo murder and then executed the next day, they get executed when the appeals are finally over and the judge decides it's time... kp606 Mcphee Pandali Gay Rights - I'm not sure yet what I think about this.
Most people I've met have an opinion about that one-- Usually set in stone.
It's hard to find someone who wavers on that issue.I don't have an opinion. I find it a repulsive issue, I just ignore it... How so? And you're clearly not ignoring it by commenting on it. Mistress DragonFlame Good arguments.... BUT, here comes another facter. Once they are setnaced Death, have it carried out within the year, and no appeals. Life witout parole? Well, here's Death without appeal. mad You have to have appeal, the justice system is not perfect. New evidence may come to light, old evidence may be found to be flawed... Mcphee
Gay Rights-
President Bush-
Sex before Marriage-
Death penalty-
etc...
Basically, whatever you want.OK... Gay Right - Why not? Especially in a country with such "religious freedom" and a non-Christian country ((talking about America, the UK is actually a Christian country, we have Christian leaders as peers in the House of Lords)) What oh so terrible can a gay marriage be doing to you as a person and to society? President Bush - *shudder* at least we wont have to worry about all these issues when he blows up the world... Sex before marriage - a marriage certificate is just words on a bit of paper... Death Penalty - completely against it. In all cases except serial killing/rape (and its equivalents) rehabilitation is possible. In those others life imprisonment is punishment. (Imprisonment, not holiday parks...but that's a whole other issue)
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:46 pm
Shard Aerliss Mistress DragonFlame Good arguments.... BUT, here comes another facter. Once they are setnaced Death, have it carried out within the year, and no appeals. Life witout parole? Well, here's Death without appeal. mad You have to have appeal, the justice system is not perfect. New evidence may come to light, old evidence may be found to be flawed... But, if there were severil whitnesses, it was severil peolpe killed (serial killer), and they were killed in such a horrible way, that of course there should be no appeals. If, for certain, they are convicted, they should be killed within a year, no appeals. domokun
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:26 am
Mistress DragonFlame Shard Aerliss Mistress DragonFlame Good arguments.... BUT, here comes another facter. Once they are setnaced Death, have it carried out within the year, and no appeals. Life witout parole? Well, here's Death without appeal. mad You have to have appeal, the justice system is not perfect. New evidence may come to light, old evidence may be found to be flawed... But, if there were severil whitnesses, it was severil peolpe killed (serial killer), and they were killed in such a horrible way, that of course there should be no appeals. If, for certain, they are convicted, they should be killed within a year, no appeals. domokun
When people have to live with their guilt, and when they have to live in their own personal hell, and their isolation, they stew in their guilt. That's just how people work. If you put them on death row, they feel guilty for a while, then they die. That doesn't work. You kill someone just beause they've killed someone, or ruined their life, then you're just as bad as they are, because, either way, it's taking a life away.
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:27 pm
Mcphee You don't believe in penance by serving a life sentence? To me, that's much more of a punishment than taking away life, which isn't punishment at all, really. It's death. Death is a problem, not a solution.
When people have to live with their guilt, and when they have to live in their own personal hell, and their isolation, they stew in their guilt. That's just how people work. If you put them on death row, they feel guilty for a while, then they die. That doesn't work. You kill someone just beause they've killed someone, or ruined their life, then you're just as bad as they are, because, either way, it's taking a life away. No, I don't think thats very serving. I think it's a free ride. Some people, the ones who committed the crims as hinious (I know I misspelled that. gonk ) as the ones that deserve death without appeal probably have no guilt. They will live in the prison, getting better treatment then most people do who aren't in prison if they get injured, or sick, and live their life out. Sure, there are some discomforts (like crowding, bad food, and such) then there are in the outside world, but more then likely, they came from a bad neighboor hood to begin with, and it's not much difference. I believe the only way to reach these people is with death. And death isn't a problem. A problem can only occer where the was no problem before, and as far as I know, death has always been a good compainion to life. Death is a tool, just as life is. And, again, for the people who do such horrid things (in my opinion) probably have no guilt to deal with. So, they will live in fear of their oncomming death, complete loss of control of their fate, for a while, it getting worse as it draws near. True, some do not fear death, but most do. Life is not all s**t and giggles. It's there, same as death. It's how you live your life and how you end it is all that matters.
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:41 am
Mistress: Let's say you're a parent, you want to teach your kids certain things, correct? If they stole something, you don't teach them not to steal by in turn stealing something. If you want to teach them not to hit their kids, you don't hit them. Why would the government expect to teach the citizens not to kill people when in turn it is doing the same thing?
The death penalty is hypocritical. At the government's hands many people have died, many more people than some of the murder's have killed themselves.
I don't condone what they've done, nor do I think it's "okay" however by instituting a system which practices and condones killing people itself, you cannot expect any less from the citizens by which it rules. You also cannot say that such a system cuts down the rate of crime or murder, as the rate is far lower in Canada than it is in the States and yet we do not have capital punishment ourselves.
In order to expect something of someone else, you yourself must live by those same principals. For the government to set laws which state that killing another human is wrong they themselves must also live by these same standards.
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:43 am
Mistress DragonFlame But, if there were severil whitnesses, it was severil peolpe killed (serial killer), and they were killed in such a horrible way, that of course there should be no appeals. If, for certain, they are convicted, they should be killed within a year, no appeals. domokun Witnesses can lie. No matter what the crime is witnesses can lie, evidence can be flawed. It's very rare to get a 100% proof case. Mistress DragonFlame No, I don't think thats very serving. I think it's a free ride. Some people, the ones who committed the crims as hinious (I know I misspelled that. gonk ) as the ones that deserve death without appeal probably have no guilt. They will live in the prison, getting better treatment then most people do who aren't in prison if they get injured, or sick, and live their life out. Sure, there are some discomforts (like crowding, bad food, and such) then there are in the outside world, but more then likely, they came from a bad neighboor hood to begin with, and it's not much difference. 1) You don't have to be poor and stupid to commit crime! There are plenty of examples of serial killers who were wealthy, educated, intellegent people; Harold Shipman, a doctor who is estimated to ahve killed over 200 people ((who also killed himself in prison, a common occurance, so go ahead and give them what they want)); The Ken and Barbie Killers an accountant and a veternary clinic worker... 2) Discomfort? Loss of freedom is what it's about, freedom to choose what to eat, when to eat, when to sleep, what to do, when to bathe, where to go...simple basic freedoms. 3) Many killers are people let down by the system that is going to kill them. Michael Ross was beaten and molested as a child (he also had an IQ of 122), an disproportinate number of adoptees become killers; Adopted Killerssite Ninety-eight percent of all homicides are committed by men; 98% of all serial killers and mass murderers are men (Jack Levin, PhD, Criminologist, Northeastern University). According to FBI statistics, 76% of the world's serial killers are in the United States; 90% are male. An incredible over-representation of serial killers are adoptees. Most adoptees who kill, as well as adoptees incarcerated for other crimes, were adopted at birth. [ The FBI estimates 500 serial killers currently in the U.S; about 80 or 16% have been identified as adoptees. Since adoptees represent only 2-3% (5-10-million) of the general population, 16% that are serial killers is an overrepresentation compared to the general population. Mistress DragonFlame I believe the only way to reach these people is with death. What people? The executed ones? They're dead, no getting through to them. Or the ones who might be planning to take up murder as a hobby, or just a one off. Well it doesn't seemt o be getting through. Mistress DragonFlame And, again, for the people who do such horrid things (in my opinion) probably have no guilt to deal with. So, they will live in fear of their oncomming death, complete loss of control of their fate, for a while, it getting worse as it draws near. True, some do not fear death, but most do. As pointed out, serial killers are known to commit suiced in custody. Or on the other hand be clinicly insane, beleive they are doing the work of god etc... ((just take a gander for yourself - Seriel Killers of Americaas for Toxics last post; Here, Here!
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:00 pm
toxic_lollipop Mistress: Let's say you're a parent, you want to teach your kids certain things, correct? If they stole something, you don't teach them not to steal by in turn stealing something. If you want to teach them not to hit their kids, you don't hit them. Why would the government expect to teach the citizens not to kill people when in turn it is doing the same thing?
The death penalty is hypocritical. At the government's hands many people have died, many more people than some of the murder's have killed themselves.
I don't condone what they've done, nor do I think it's "okay" however by instituting a system which practices and condones killing people itself, you cannot expect any less from the citizens by which it rules. You also cannot say that such a system cuts down the rate of crime or murder, as the rate is far lower in Canada than it is in the States and yet we do not have capital punishment ourselves.
In order to expect something of someone else, you yourself must live by those same principals. For the government to set laws which state that killing another human is wrong they themselves must also live by these same standards. If I have a kid and they stole something, I'd take everything of theirs away, but not before beating them shitless. I believe in firm disiciplin, no one should be the 'cool' paranet, because in the end it does more harm then good. And they do it because the people they are killing have killed. The end. Of course it's more deaths that way! But, if you add up every victum(sp?) and weigh it against the goverment (by-passing war, because it's not a law to die or something) it equals about the same, maybe less for the gov. I remember a case somewhere in... Kansas? Utah? Oh well, I forget, it was years ago when I watched this, but there was this Chief Officer who stationed a gun at every gas station and 7-11 there was. A sign was posted, "if you try to rob this store, you will get shot" only tree times later, for the rest of that guys rein, not a single store was robbed--a period of 2-4 years? The goverment is like a parent; they should be stricked as hell to keep us in line and raise us right. If they are the 'cool' parent, then they are doing more harm thena anything, and it will only get worse.
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:25 pm
My comments are in bold. Shard Aerliss Mistress DragonFlame But, if there were severil whitnesses, it was severil peolpe killed (serial killer), and they were killed in such a horrible way, that of course there should be no appeals. If, for certain, they are convicted, they should be killed within a year, no appeals. domokun Witnesses can lie. No matter what the crime is witnesses can lie, evidence can be flawed. It's very rare to get a 100% proof case. Well then, everything is flawed. Choosing the pope is flawed, killing your cat 'saving' it from a tumar is flawed, deafness is flawed. There is no perfect anything, but that doesn't mean we can't act apon what we know. Sure, their might be a few mistakes, but that's life. We must account for human error. Mistress DragonFlame No, I don't think thats very serving. I think it's a free ride. Some people, the ones who committed the crims as hinious (I know I misspelled that. gonk ) as the ones that deserve death without appeal probably have no guilt. They will live in the prison, getting better treatment then most people do who aren't in prison if they get injured, or sick, and live their life out. Sure, there are some discomforts (like crowding, bad food, and such) then there are in the outside world, but more then likely, they came from a bad neighboor hood to begin with, and it's not much difference. 1) You don't have to be poor and stupid to commit crime! There are plenty of examples of serial killers who were wealthy, educated, intellegent people; Harold Shipman, a doctor who is estimated to ahve killed over 200 people ((who also killed himself in prison, a common occurance, so go ahead and give them what they want)); The Ken and Barbie Killers an accountant and a veternary clinic worker... Hence the "SOME" part in my statment. Also the "PROBABLE". I did not state that it was a certain fact that all came from the run-down parts, or they have no feeling. But most of them do. It's not very likely my sister or I will turn into homocidle maniacs, we were raised better then that, but we still have a chance, however small. 2) Discomfort? Loss of freedom is what it's about, freedom to choose what to eat, when to eat, when to sleep, what to do, when to bathe, where to go...simple basic freedoms. Yes, but people get use to those things. After a while, they'll just stop thinking about it. Then, they may just start likeing their life again. Order leads to chaos, but chaos cannot last forever. So, it's a cycle. They get depressed, then use to it, and then happy. Then they die. 3) Many killers are people let down by the system that is going to kill them. Michael Ross was beaten and molested as a child (he also had an IQ of 122), an disproportinate number of adoptees become killers; Ah, they do that so they can have one last bit of control. They ended their life, they do not wish that pleasure, for lack of a better word (that I can think of) to someone else.Adopted Killerssite Ninety-eight percent of all homicides are committed by men; 98% of all serial killers and mass murderers are men (Jack Levin, PhD, Criminologist, Northeastern University). According to FBI statistics, 76% of the world's serial killers are in the United States; 90% are male. An incredible over-representation of serial killers are adoptees. Most adoptees who kill, as well as adoptees incarcerated for other crimes, were adopted at birth. [ The FBI estimates 500 serial killers currently in the U.S; about 80 or 16% have been identified as adoptees. Since adoptees represent only 2-3% (5-10-million) of the general population, 16% that are serial killers is an overrepresentation compared to the general population. Mistress DragonFlame I believe the only way to reach these people is with death. What people? The executed ones? They're dead, no getting through to them. Or the ones who might be planning to take up murder as a hobby, or just a one off. Well it doesn't seemt o be getting through. They are punished by their death. We no longer have to deal with them. Their crimes have no longer let them be human. You know what we do with animals that kill people repeatedly? We kill them. We kill them dead. With, like a rock or something... lika, lika stone...
Mistress DragonFlame And, again, for the people who do such horrid things (in my opinion) probably have no guilt to deal with. So, they will live in fear of their oncomming death, complete loss of control of their fate, for a while, it getting worse as it draws near. True, some do not fear death, but most do.
As pointed out, serial killers are known to commit suiced in custody. Or on the other hand be clinicly insane, beleive they are doing the work of god etc... ((just take a gander for yourself - Seriel Killers of AmericaSo, insainity means they can act as they want and get a lesser punishment? And if they committed suiced means they were guilty, in my opinion. An innocent man will always have hope some evidence will pull through, and will hope until his death. A guilty man want to get it over with, he doesn't want to wait. My logic may seem warped to you, but I hold this in the same regard as abortion. And eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. A life for a life.
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