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 Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:47 pm
Chieftain Twilight Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight and Shinto, while japanese Shamanism, is debatably Pagan. In what sense is Shinto a Japanese form of the Siberian tradition of the Shaman? before there were Shinto Priests there were Shinto Shaman. they were very earth0based, they dwelt in isoltated places where the boundaries between the world of the living and teh world of the Kami were. they practiced herbal and spiritual medicinal remedies and such, they followed symbolic and psychospiritual traditions, they would routinely visit the Otherworld, and come back with wisdom to share with the people of villages where they would travel. they themselves may not have been called Shaman by everyone, but they have been considered Shaman at least by westerners, and indeed by many people in Japan during the time. i admit that in it's more modern form Shinto isn't quite the same as the ancient Siberian practice of Shamanism, but Shinto DID origionally come from the Chinese practice of Chinto, or Shindo, which was a sort of cross between Paganism and Shamanism. Apparently my question was misread. In what sense is Shinto a Japanese form of the Siberian tradition of the Shaman? Westerners can be really ignorant about what Shamans are, so I'm not sure I really give a crap what westerners as a whole might consider Shaman. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what the word means.
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Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:59 pm
Chieftain Twilight before there were Shinto Priests there were Shinto Shaman. they were very earth0based, they dwelt in isoltated places where the boundaries between the world of the living and teh world of the Kami were. they practiced herbal and spiritual medicinal remedies and such, they followed symbolic and psychospiritual traditions, they would routinely visit the Otherworld, and come back with wisdom to share with the people of villages where they would travel. they themselves may not have been called Shaman by everyone, but they have been considered Shaman at least by westerners, and indeed by many people in Japan during the time. i admit that in it's more modern form Shinto isn't quite the same as the ancient Siberian practice of Shamanism, but Shinto DID origionally come from the Chinese practice of Chinto, or Shindo, which was a sort of cross between Paganism and Shamanism. 
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:19 pm
Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight and Shinto, while japanese Shamanism, is debatably Pagan. In what sense is Shinto a Japanese form of the Siberian tradition of the Shaman? before there were Shinto Priests there were Shinto Shaman. they were very earth0based, they dwelt in isoltated places where the boundaries between the world of the living and teh world of the Kami were. they practiced herbal and spiritual medicinal remedies and such, they followed symbolic and psychospiritual traditions, they would routinely visit the Otherworld, and come back with wisdom to share with the people of villages where they would travel. they themselves may not have been called Shaman by everyone, but they have been considered Shaman at least by westerners, and indeed by many people in Japan during the time. i admit that in it's more modern form Shinto isn't quite the same as the ancient Siberian practice of Shamanism, but Shinto DID origionally come from the Chinese practice of Chinto, or Shindo, which was a sort of cross between Paganism and Shamanism. Apparently my question was misread. In what sense is Shinto a Japanese form of the Siberian tradition of the Shaman? Westerners can be really ignorant about what Shamans are, so I'm not sure I really give a crap what westerners as a whole might consider Shaman. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what the word means. i did not claim that Shinto is in any way a Japanese form of the Siberian Tradition. i said it is considered Shamanism. so are other practices in indiginous tribes of Africa, Oceania, and the Native American traditions. maybe the term Shamanism has been bastardized, but it doesn't refer only to the ancient Siberian practice. and Violet, damnit, look it up in a freaking dictionary if you want a citation so badly, Shamanism refers to a very wide variety of practices, including Shinto.
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Chieftain Twilight i did not claim that Shinto is in any way a Japanese form of the Siberian Tradition. i said it is considered Shamanism. so are other practices in indiginous tribes of Africa, Oceania, and the Native American traditions. maybe the term Shamanism has been bastardized, but it doesn't refer only to the ancient Siberian practice. and Violet, damnit, look it up in a freaking dictionary if you want a citation so badly, Shamanism refers to a very wide variety of practices, including Shinto. Misusing the term "shamanism" doesn't make a person a shaman, or a thing related to shamans. Use the appropriate term for a particular culture, or use a non-specific term. That way we don't get this sort of confusion. A little respect goes a long way. I see no reason to continue bastardisation of a title.
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:32 pm
sha⋅man⋅ism –noun
1. the animistic religion of northern Asia, embracing a belief in powerful spirits that can be influenced only by shamans.
2. any similar religion.
(dictionary.com)
Note: That other people have chosen to misappropriate the term to encompass what they consider to be similar practices, doesn't make it right. If you are aware that it is a bastardization, then don't use it.
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:38 pm
Chieftain Twilight and Violet, damnit, look it up in a freaking dictionary if you want a citation so badly, Shamanism refers to a very wide variety of practices, including Shinto. I want a citation so badly to know where you're getting your s**t from. I know what Shamanism means, both as a specific tradition of otherworld traveling specific to northern Asia, as well as the way it is used to cover ALL otherworld traveling traditions. Which is a crock of s**t IMO since cultures already have terms in place for their respective traditions. I slap people with bricks laced with anthrax when they call seidhr "shamanism." Now. What about Shinto makes it Shamanism?
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:02 am
I've been told that because I take into everything I learn that I'm an eclcltic neo pagan, but I still call myself wiccan cause thats how I was brought to call what I beleave in.
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:17 am
Trinity Neo Boom I've been told that because I take into everything I learn that I'm an eclcltic neo pagan, but I still call myself wiccan cause thats how I was brought to call what I beleave in. You were taught incorrectly I'm afraid. Wicca is a different religion to your own.
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:34 pm
well, Violet, i concede, since this has been pulled up. ncsweet sha⋅man⋅ism –noun 1. the animistic religion of northern Asia, embracing a belief in powerful spirits that can be influenced only by shamans.2. any similar religion. (dictionary.com) Note: That other people have chosen to misappropriate the term to encompass what they consider to be similar practices, doesn't make it right. If you are aware that it is a bastardization, then don't use it. it is different from the entry in teh dictionary i have, but the one i used isn't an updated version. if the term ha sbeen corrected than i give up. though now i do feel very lost in finding a simple term for myself, considering i rather liked the sound that the term "Shaman" had. xd oh well. i wonder if there IS a catchall term for the collaborated spirituality of cultures that are indigenous and/or neolithic?
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:46 pm
Chieftain Twilight i wonder if there IS a catchall term for the collaborated spirituality of cultures that are indigenous and/or neolithic? "Indigenous religion", possibly. Some use "folk religion" but I think that means something else, for e.g., contrast with "state religion" or similar. Although anthropologically, that's not what shamanism refers to, of course. If that's what you were implying.
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:18 pm
Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight i wonder if there IS a catchall term for the collaborated spirituality of cultures that are indigenous and/or neolithic? "Indigenous religion", possibly. Some use "folk religion" but I think that means something else, for e.g., contrast with "state religion" or similar. Although anthropologically, that's not what shamanism refers to, of course. If that's what you were implying. well, 1.) i don't want to call it religion, that i study and practice the practices of what i (and that books i read the in) have been calling Shamanism. just Spirituality. still, if it's that long a word i might as well just stick to non-religious Spiritualist! xd i could call myself a Chaos Mage, but i never liked the term Mage... *shrugs.*
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:41 am
Chieftain Twilight Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight i wonder if there IS a catchall term for the collaborated spirituality of cultures that are indigenous and/or neolithic? "Indigenous religion", possibly. Some use "folk religion" but I think that means something else, for e.g., contrast with "state religion" or similar. Although anthropologically, that's not what shamanism refers to, of course. If that's what you were implying. well, 1.) i don't want to call it religion, that i study and practice the practices of what i (and that books i read the in) have been calling Shamanism. just Spirituality. still, if it's that long a word i might as well just stick to non-religious Spiritualist! xd i could call myself a Chaos Mage, but i never liked the term Mage... *shrugs.* Shamanism is a... a technique. And this applies to the incorrect, anthropological use of the term as well. Compare "witchcraft". It is a practice. A spiritual practice, but not a spirituality in and of itself. The problem is that there is no collaborated spirituality - wait, you mean you personally are collaborating neolithic and indigenous spiritualities? How on earth did you go about that? "Non-religious spiritualist" is accurate. For that reason I recommend using the phrase. Own it - if it best describes you there's no reason to use any other term, particularly if they describe something else entirely or may prove misleading.
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:17 am
Trinity Neo Boom I've been told that because I take into everything I learn that I'm an eclcltic neo pagan, but I still call myself wiccan cause thats how I was brought to call what I beleave in. Why would you want to continuing using a term that doesn't accurately describe your path?
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:02 pm
Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight Sanguina Cruenta Chieftain Twilight i wonder if there IS a catchall term for the collaborated spirituality of cultures that are indigenous and/or neolithic? "Indigenous religion", possibly. Some use "folk religion" but I think that means something else, for e.g., contrast with "state religion" or similar. Although anthropologically, that's not what shamanism refers to, of course. If that's what you were implying. well, 1.) i don't want to call it religion, that i study and practice the practices of what i (and that books i read the in) have been calling Shamanism. just Spirituality. still, if it's that long a word i might as well just stick to non-religious Spiritualist! xd i could call myself a Chaos Mage, but i never liked the term Mage... *shrugs.* Shamanism is a... a technique. And this applies to the incorrect, anthropological use of the term as well. Compare "witchcraft". It is a practice. A spiritual practice, but not a spirituality in and of itself. The problem is that there is no collaborated spirituality - wait, you mean you personally are collaborating neolithic and indigenous spiritualities? How on earth did you go about that? "Non-religious spiritualist" is accurate. For that reason I recommend using the phrase. Own it - if it best describes you there's no reason to use any other term, particularly if they describe something else entirely or may prove misleading. *nods.* does sound like a plan. i just like the term Shaman, it sounds fun. xd but i am collaborating these, along with other things. my entire life philosophy revolves around teh never-ending pursuit of ever-more knowledge. i constantly chalenge my beliefs, though i find myself to keep becoming stubborn at times, and so this self-chalenge is very healthy for me. the main rule of my philosophy is: everything we think we know for certain could be completely false. we cannot possibly know for sure, because even the concepts of logic and sense are in question. there is no way to prove anything. because of this, i have come to the theory (that seems to fit everything else i have yet seen so far) that all things are subjective, including the Universal Truth. all religions are teaching and acknowledging teh exact same Universal Truth, but they view it, define it, arrange it, and display it all in their own individual subjective ways.
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