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 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:51 pm
however great it is to have a fath...is it truelly great to push it on someone, I my self am not in a fath per say, but my own belief that no matter what, you should always try your DARNDEST to be as good a person as you can.
Lets not hate.
Lets not judge.
Lets love one another NO MATTER WHAT!
Lets not fight.
I'm not perfect, I use foul lingo and sometimes doi things I REALLY shouldnt do, but however, I refuse to be a bad person...
I'm not going to Hevon, this fictional place of clouds and whatnot.
Nor am I going to Hell, another fiction place of fire and brim stone...lol REALLY!
Relegion is fear...
the after life...theres a reallity for you. Pergatory...theres another...look into it if you want, its very intresting, just to learn of it!
I think...this is just me here...that there are a number of gods out there working there deitie-ed butts off to make our world go round and round, for those who beleive in them...
if you cant see how this could work, open your mind.
God. He has so many names....
Absolute Being, All Knowing, All Powerful, Allah, Almighty, Creator, Divine Being, Father, God, Holy Spirit, Infinite Spirit, Jah, Jehovah, King of Kings, Lord, Maker, Yahweh, daemon, deity, demigod, demon, divinity, holiness, idol, master, numen, omnipotent, power, prime mover, providence, soul, spirit, totem, tutelary, universal life force, world spirit.
If you take all that...People have created this...thing, out of fear, we cannot live in fear...
Thats all I'm saying....
The gods, not a creation, so to speek. but a univers of...nature...
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:31 am
Oh Christianity, where do I begin with you? I find Christianity the most frustrating and unbearable religion created to date...the contradiction is just way to much to handle. I used to be a believer when I was little, you know, back in the day when you did everything your parents did because they were your idols? Then I grew up and learned to actually think about things...
I could go on for hours about what actually makes me dislike the religion, there are a lot of things that just don't make any sense whatsoever, but I don't really think anyone wants to read a post that long XD
I do respect people whom devote themselves to Christianty and follow through with it though. Anyone who stays truely devote to a religion deserves to be respected, because it's not an easy thing to do, even if the religion is one of the most horribly thought out cults in the world.
And yes, I'm calling Christianity a Cult, because it IS a Cult. And before any of you spout out a bunch of bull about how a religion is different from a Cult, let me just say this NOW. A Religion and a Cult are the EXACT SAME THING. Over the years, the word Cult has been twisted and morphed, so when people here about it, they think of extremist believers who make up their own religions. Based on the ORIGINAL definition of the word Cult (A group of people whom passionatly believe in the same thing, participate in the same rituals, or live the same lifestyle) all Religions are Cults, thank you.
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:41 am
Fire-The-Pheonix Oh Christianity, where do I begin with you? I find Christianity the most frustrating and unbearable religion created to date...the contradiction is just way to much to handle. I used to be a believer when I was little, you know, back in the day when you did everything your parents did because they were your idols? Then I grew up and learned to actually think about things... I could go on for hours about what actually makes me dislike the religion, there are a lot of things that just don't make any sense whatsoever, but I don't really think anyone wants to read a post that long XD I do respect people whom devote themselves to Christianty and follow through with it though. Anyone who stays truely devote to a religion deserves to be respected, because it's not an easy thing to do, even if the religion is one of the most horribly thought out cults in the world. And yes, I'm calling Christianity a Cult, because it IS a Cult. And before any of you spout out a bunch of bull about how a religion is different from a Cult, let me just say this NOW. A Religion and a Cult are the EXACT SAME THING. Over the years, the word Cult has been twisted and morphed, so when people here about it, they think of extremist believers who make up their own religions. Based on the ORIGINAL definition of the word Cult (A group of people whom passionatly believe in the same thing, participate in the same rituals, or live the same lifestyle) all Religions are Cults, thank you. So it sounds like, to me, that you dislike Christianity because your parents made you participate in it when you were younger, and you didn't like it and so you rebelled. You say you dislike the contradictions. Mind naming a few just for an example? I'm curious. And, if I may be honest, I doubt anyone really cares if you call it a cult or not because, according to you, they are the same thing, and thus you were not insulting us.
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:02 pm
I don't follow the religion, just the teachings. There's just too much hassle with going through the entire bible while coming to one conclusion. I don't find it necessary.
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:30 pm
First and foremost, yes I am a christian, I wear that proudly on my sleeve. I've had my moments of doubt in my life. But finally I hit a point where I said to myself,
"If I'm going to remain a christian, I'm going to look into it and see what proof and evidence there is. For if God exists, then there must be proof of this."
After spending a few years studying with my old roommate who is also a christian, picking his brain ect ect. I found that there is an over abundance of evidence proving the existance of God, Historically, Philosophically, and even Scientifically.
But even after coming to where I am today, I cannot say I go to church very often. I find my relationship with God to be very personal. I still go every now and then, but for the most part I study in my personal time.
I think my favorite argument is a philasophical one I learned a few years back, not necessarily proving the existance of any one particular God, but a self refuting argument proving that at the very least, there is a Creator or an Intelligent Designer, and that is the basis of absolute morals.
We are living in a time where society more and more adopts the belief of Social Relativism, or that there is no right and wrong, and that whatever we believe to be right or wrong is right for us as an individual, or as a large collective, and if another individual or collective/society believes in something different, that is alright by them.
This sounds fine, nobody likes being told they are wrong, as we have learned from recent popular sayings that have popped up like, "Don't Judge Me!" But this believe is in and of itself flawed.
First, lets discuss the definition of what is a self refuting argument, that is when a statement is made, in which the information in the statement defeats the message which is being said. For example. If I were to say;
"There are no sentences longer than five words." The sentence itself refutes the argument since it took 7 to claim it cannot be longer than 5. Or if I were to say;
"I am a married bachelor." It refutes itself since you cannot be a bachelor and married at the same time.
So how does this work into the previous argument about morals? Let me explain. When someone excersises social relativisim, or the belief that all morals are relative and not absolute, they believe whatever we believe is okay with us. But when we break it down, relativism simply makes the claim, "There are no absolute morals." But then we ask this, "Is this an absolute moral judgement?" The argument refutes and defeats itself because its saying that there are no abolutes except for what? That there are none. And whenever a judgment is made on a moral as in this case, relativists refute their own beliefs by making absolute moral judgments on there being none.
I was in a debate where a relativists kept claiming I was wrong, easiest debate I ever won, she did all the work for me. She could not defend her belief in relative morals without using absolute moral judgements to defend her points. A moral relativist cannot use phrases like, "That is wrong." and "That is Right" Part of why I think Bill Mahrs documentry 'Religulous' fails. He is a relativists, yet so many times in his documentary he makes absolute moral claims that contradict his very belief."
So how does this prove that there is a God? Because without a God there can be no Natural order or sense of right and wrong. All we would have are different oppinions between people which would hold no weight because everything they believe to be right or wrong is but an opinion that has just as much merit as the next guy. Even if 100 people believe abortion is wrong, and 1 believes it is right, that 1 man would be no more right or wrong than the previous 100. Even if we elect a ruler, a King, President ect. to make the rules, it doesn't make the rules he makes any more right or wrong since what he proclaims is just more opinions, and the next ruler can completely overhaul his rulings and be no more right.
Thus we can conclude that morals, absolute and objective must come from a higher power. An Intelligent designer, Creator, God. Who is in, and of him/herself the very embodiment of what is right and wrong, and established them into the world he/she created.
Yeah, this is a long piece, if you've made it to the end, great job. I've had many who've disagreed with this argument as some of you might by the time you've finished. But whether if you agree or not, I think this is some of the most compelling arguments for the existance of God, and many Agnostics and Aetheists have agreed that if this argument for absolute morals is correct, which I have demonstrated through the process of self refuting relative morals, than there has to be a God, even if they refuse to acknowledge it.
Anyways, this post is just a little tid-bit to let you all know the type of guy I am, and where I come from in defending my beliefs. It is great to meet so many other christians on this site, and I look foward to having more conversations with you all down the line.
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:49 pm
I'm all for having faith. In my opinion, faith and organized religion are two different things. A religion, similar to society, is a system in which beliefs are practiced among a common people. This system could historically be considered on of control. From what I've seen in life so far. Christianity is a religion. The beliefs and ideas which govern its creation is faith.
I'm perfectly fine with anybody practicing under whatever religion best fits their belief system. I, in fact encourage it, and I encourage people to make the effort to educate themselves on other religions and beliefs, so that when they speak of the beliefs of others, they are doing so without ignorance.
However, what I do not condone, is when someone tries to force their religious beliefs onto another person. As I stated above, those people have the right to believe whatever they wish to believe, and should therefore not be judged for it. While you see it coming from every religion, from what I've seen so far, most of that seems to come from those who call themselves Christians; particularly if they live in the south. I know this from personal experience, as I have been constantly judged for my beliefs by people who nothing about me or about my beliefs in general. Every time, it has been from a Christian person.
I'm not saying all Christians are judgemental like this. I'm only saying that statistically, based on personal observation, most of them happen to be of that crowd. My question is; why?
--I'm agnostic, by the way.
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:07 am
I'm a "contradiction", a furry-christian, I wear that proudly as well :3 I also believe that I've got an animal-side of me that is rarely seen, blessed as I was cursed. Sure. I'm going to heaven and whatnot, and I'll be on one of the lowest of low bars of it. I'm lukewarm at heart, I cuss, I've had sex before marriage, I've been a f*****t(not any longer mind you...), I've been into demons(I know that I carry one), and I've seen a lot more than I should have been able to at my age.
I take pity on all of the people who've been driven away from God by lousy parents, or stupid teachings, and everything. I believe that faggots(sorry guys, gay means 'happy' in old Bible translations, faggotry is also in the Bible) can go to Heaven and be gay-homosexuals if they Believe. And I know that God loves all that he has made.
What I HATE: a*****e-christians who think they can force their beliefs on the younger generation. But I also hate younger generations who can't respect their elders and older generations who can't listen to what the younger might have to say.
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:21 am
Japanese_Green_Tea, I love the point you made. (Sorry, I would quote your post, but it's kind of big, and I didn't want to get on people's nerves....) I never looked at it that way. Thanks for posting. biggrin
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:12 am
whateverisright48 Japanese_Green_Tea, I love the point you made. (Sorry, I would quote your post, but it's kind of big, and I didn't want to get on people's nerves....) I never looked at it that way. Thanks for posting. biggrin
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:21 am
I think the biggest irk that Christians have is their need to force their beliefs onto others. A religion of violence and judgment.
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:32 pm
explain to me this
Other religions dont mind christians, so long as you leave them alone
and yet christians seem to think that all the people in the world who are content with there current religion need to be "saved" and converted to a religion that i view as judgmental, contradictive and corruptive
also i will never forgive the catholic, christian etc religions becuase of what they did stare . I believe in multiple gods and godess and who knows how many demi-gods so im going to go to hell now stare ............ the worst my religion will do to someone after death is make it more difficult to find youre anscestors star
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:03 pm
Sheagorath_The_MadGod explain to me this Other religions dont mind christians, so long as you leave them alone and yet christians seem to think that all the people in the world who are content with there current religion need to be "saved" and converted to a religion that i view as judgmental, contradictive and corruptive also i will never forgive the catholic, christian etc religions becuase of what they did stare . I believe in multiple gods and godess and who knows how many demi-gods so im going to go to hell now stare ............ the worst my religion will do to someone after death is make it more difficult to find youre anscestors star Well, first off, the Bible says rather clearly that no man should judge another. So any judging being done is not part of the religion, rather the lack of religion in the person judging. So don't give Christianity a bad rap (wrap?) for that. Ok, anyways, personally, I think you have the right to believe whatever you believe. However, part of Christianity is evangelism, or basically, getting the message out there. No one can or should force you to believe it if you don't want to because then, quite frankly, you wouldn't believe. Oh, and could you please explain to me what Christianity did to you? Might help me understand better.
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:33 pm
I have found some very interesting points and arguments here, the best one I’ve seen is by Japanese_Green_Tea, but I don’t see how your point supports God’s existence, I just see you point out a flawed society’s system of moral beliefs and standpoints. But what you have to say was more than worth reading and I’m glad you posted it. Also, another thing I found interesting is that many believe Christianity a cult. In some ways, it is. If you think about it, Jesus and Paul started and lead the Christian movement, any belief started by man, which Jesus came to Earth as, is a cult. Our strongest “religious” ties lie in Judaism. However I would like to make it a point, that many people judge Christians on the old testament and by the worst of us who call themselves Christians in society. Actually, they may not be the worst, they just may care about others at such a level that they blind themselves to what they’re actually doing. Anyway, I’ll come back here later if people are still posting in this thread.
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:06 pm
Quote: Well, first off, the Bible says rather clearly that no man should judge another. So any judging being done is not part of the religion, rather the lack of religion in the person judging. So don't give Christianity a bad rap (wrap?) for that. Ok, anyways, personally, I think you have the right to believe whatever you believe. However, part of Christianity is evangelism, or basically, getting the message out there. No one can or should force you to believe it if you don't want to because then, quite frankly, you wouldn't believe. Oh, and could you please explain to me what Christianity did to you? Might help me understand better. Actually everyone that judges me tells me that the bible says that there are no other gods other then him and that evryone is going to hell if they dont believe in him >.> are you sure youre not supposed to judge sadley you would never believe me and for the sake of people on here id rather not bother you with a fight xd I know i have the right to believe in anything i want, but why do christians etc feel that everyone needs to be in there religion
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:31 pm
Sheagorath_The_MadGod explain to me this Other religions dont mind christians, so long as you leave them alone and yet christians seem to think that all the people in the world who are content with there current religion need to be "saved" and converted to a religion that i view as judgmental, contradictive and corruptive also i will never forgive the catholic, christian etc religions becuase of what they did stare . I believe in multiple gods and godess and who knows how many demi-gods so im going to go to hell now stare ............ the worst my religion will do to someone after death is make it more difficult to find youre anscestors star And that's fine, it's what you believe. And other religions don't force you to join per-say, they're just suggestions.
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