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 Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:14 am
darkphoenix1247 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden I'm honestly in favor of the health care reform. Think about it. Most of our programs like social security, welfare, unemployment is run by the government. The Police Department and the Fire Department are both run by the government. If socialized health care is so bad, then how come countries like the UK and Canada aren't adapting to our form of health care. If socialism is so bad then why aren't the other Democratic countries with socialized economic systems adapting to Capitalism. If helping our nation's people is so wrong then what's the point of having a government system? Isn't the government supposed to help it's people? Do you realize how many people have been denied health care by our lovely insurance companies? Do you realize that we're below Costa Rica and Cuba when it comes to health care? That's right, I said it. We are below a communist country when it comes to health care. What happened to us? Weren't we supposed to be number 1 in everything? Aren't we the best country in the world? What happened to our compassion? What happened to our dignity? What happened to our honor? Did we throw those away as we let the Conservatives power? Did we sign a social contract and throw away our people's right to live and be healthy because some simpleton told us to? Since when did we become such heartless greedy monsters? Um... First off, social security, Medicaid, and Medicare are failures. It's a completely idiotic idea to keep making future generations pay for past things, and with the increasing population, it's out of control. Sure, it might have worked well for some people, but again, who's going to pay for it? Socialism isn't bad, but neither is capitalism. They're just ideas of how things should be run. Some work well in some cultures, some don't. Great Britain is the welfare state, and besides people like Thatcher, has a long history of putting great trust and power in the government. America doesn't. Even if something works amazingly well in one culture is of no guarantee of its success in another. A few years ago I learned about fallacious arguments in my English class, and sorry, but I'm calling you out. Whether or not you think America is the greatest has nothing to do with health care. And furthermore, it's not a black or white picture. It's not as though disliking this single plan for health care means I don't care about people who are uninsured or don't want to help people in need. For the past 4 years I've volunteered every summer at either a library, hospital, or school and at my local chapter of Amnesty International. Good to know I'm a heartless greedy monster. Oh, and a note to everybody here, I truly don't mean any offense by debating my position, so I am sorry if anything I said offends you- if it is a factual error, I will gladly retract it- I know I am far from all-knowing. Actually they're not. The only reason why they're failures is because Bush decided to privatize them. He screwed us over. Try going over the New Deal plan again. :3 Volunteering doesn't mean anything as long as there are still people getting screwed out of their healthcare plan because either they don't meet the insurance companies requirements or that the insurance companies just don't like them. neutral Just because you volunteered doesn't mean you know what it's like to be uninsured. Or to have life saving procedures be denies because your condition is a pre-existing condition. Try walking in their shoes. Try being uninsured yourself. Also Fox News is a horrible news source. It's a complete joke, it's nothing more than The Onion. neutral
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:34 am
I'll go a step further, Fox News is Propaganda. In case anyone missed the film Farenheit 9/11 then take the time to view it. If you'd like to critique Michael Moore then consult his books as they list every source he cites. For a more personal edge to this debate is the fact that if I hadn't risked my life I wouldn't have health care. For profit systems are just that, they're not about the person who's sick they're in it for monetary gain. The kind of depravity of such a system on a moral level is the equivalent of selling water to a person who will die in the desert without it. Life should come first not lining of wallets. And yes it is that brutally simple.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:48 pm
Alright, I'll find another source besides Fox News, then- it was the first reputable website to come up on Google. The Onion= heart And no, it's not that simple. It's not about lining wallets to want a healthcare system that's practical and going to work. So, let's say this plan is implemented and costs only the projected $1 trillion it's supposed to. So our national deficit is now 13 trillion instead of 12 trillion. Only another trillion you say? But our budget pays interest on our deficit. (In 2008, the US government spent $459 billion in interest payments to holders of the National Debt. In contrast, education only got $61 billion, transportation $56 billion, etc) One trillion dollars is a lot of money.... As is $412 billion.... We can't keep playing with such large numbers unless we have a clearer picture of where it's all going and making it effective. My point in discussing volunteering was that yeah, I know people in the world are suffering. I do what I can to help. But I also have the right to an opposing opinion without being called greedy or heartless. Oh, and in another year I won't have health insurance. I'll let you know if my opinion changes then. I also do not deny in any way that Bush was an idiot. Sources: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/yearrev2008_0.html
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:55 pm
darkphoenix1247 Alright, I'll find another source besides Fox News, then- it was the first reputable website to come up on Google. The Onion= heart And no, it's not that simple. It's not about lining wallets to want a healthcare system that's practical and going to work. So, let's say this plan is implemented and costs only the projected $1 trillion it's supposed to. So our national deficit is now 13 trillion instead of 12 trillion. Only another trillion you say? But our budget pays interest on our deficit. (In 2008, the US government spent $459 billion in interest payments to holders of the National Debt. In contrast, education only got $61 billion, transportation $56 billion, etc) One trillion dollars is a lot of money.... As is $412 billion.... We can't keep playing with such large numbers unless we have a clearer picture of where it's all going. My point in discussing volunteering was that yeah, I know people in the world are suffering. I do what I can to help. But I also have the right to an opposing opinion without being called greedy or heartless. Oh, and in another year I won't have health insurance. I'll let you know if my opinion changes then. Sources: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/yearrev2008_0.html Spending money on health care is a lot better than spending money on a useless war like Iraq. neutral
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:56 pm
-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden darkphoenix1247 Alright, I'll find another source besides Fox News, then- it was the first reputable website to come up on Google. The Onion= heart And no, it's not that simple. It's not about lining wallets to want a healthcare system that's practical and going to work. So, let's say this plan is implemented and costs only the projected $1 trillion it's supposed to. So our national deficit is now 13 trillion instead of 12 trillion. Only another trillion you say? But our budget pays interest on our deficit. (In 2008, the US government spent $459 billion in interest payments to holders of the National Debt. In contrast, education only got $61 billion, transportation $56 billion, etc) One trillion dollars is a lot of money.... As is $412 billion.... We can't keep playing with such large numbers unless we have a clearer picture of where it's all going. My point in discussing volunteering was that yeah, I know people in the world are suffering. I do what I can to help. But I also have the right to an opposing opinion without being called greedy or heartless. Oh, and in another year I won't have health insurance. I'll let you know if my opinion changes then. Sources: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/yearrev2008_0.html Spending money on health care is a lot better than spending money on a useless war like Iraq. neutral I agree completely, but the fact is that Bush did, so we're paying for his stupidity. With money we don't have.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:02 pm
darkphoenix1247 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden darkphoenix1247 Alright, I'll find another source besides Fox News, then- it was the first reputable website to come up on Google. The Onion= heart And no, it's not that simple. It's not about lining wallets to want a healthcare system that's practical and going to work. So, let's say this plan is implemented and costs only the projected $1 trillion it's supposed to. So our national deficit is now 13 trillion instead of 12 trillion. Only another trillion you say? But our budget pays interest on our deficit. (In 2008, the US government spent $459 billion in interest payments to holders of the National Debt. In contrast, education only got $61 billion, transportation $56 billion, etc) One trillion dollars is a lot of money.... As is $412 billion.... We can't keep playing with such large numbers unless we have a clearer picture of where it's all going. My point in discussing volunteering was that yeah, I know people in the world are suffering. I do what I can to help. But I also have the right to an opposing opinion without being called greedy or heartless. Oh, and in another year I won't have health insurance. I'll let you know if my opinion changes then. Sources: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/yearrev2008_0.html Spending money on health care is a lot better than spending money on a useless war like Iraq. neutral I agree completely, but the fact is that Bush did, so we're paying for his stupidity. With money we don't have. Which is why Obama gave us stimulus packages and the cash for clunkers program.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:04 pm
-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Which is why Obama gave us stimulus packages and the cash for clunkers program. That may help some people, true, but how does the government then afford anything? Unless we raise taxes to some inanely high amount, we're still taking in far less income because of the recession.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:09 pm
darkphoenix1247 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Which is why Obama gave us stimulus packages and the cash for clunkers program. That may help some people, true, but how does the government then afford anything? Unless we raise taxes to some inanely high amount, we're still taking in far less income because of the recession. In some places the economy is steadily improving and people can find jobs. Like in Houston, Texas. It takes time.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:23 pm
-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden darkphoenix1247 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Which is why Obama gave us stimulus packages and the cash for clunkers program. That may help some people, true, but how does the government then afford anything? Unless we raise taxes to some inanely high amount, we're still taking in far less income because of the recession. In some places the economy is steadily improving and people can find jobs. Like in Houston, Texas. It takes time. Agreed, but throughout most of the US, things aren't much better. So what's the rush in passing this plan that hasn't been completely thought out this second when it will affect our future for some time to come? Not to mention that politicians aren't exactly experts on healthcare themselves.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:19 pm
darkphoenix1247 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden darkphoenix1247 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Which is why Obama gave us stimulus packages and the cash for clunkers program. That may help some people, true, but how does the government then afford anything? Unless we raise taxes to some inanely high amount, we're still taking in far less income because of the recession. In some places the economy is steadily improving and people can find jobs. Like in Houston, Texas. It takes time. Agreed, but throughout most of the US, things aren't much better. So what's the rush in passing this plan that hasn't been completely thought out this second when it will affect our future for some time to come? Not to mention that politicians aren't exactly experts on healthcare themselves. Since the economy is failing, people can't pay for their insurance or doctor bills. People are more than likely getting sicker. Hell the weekend of my birthday I got hit with the flu. (it was a two day thing). If the health care plan is passed, then people can go to the doctor to see what's wrong w/o the fear of the insurance companies denying the procedures they need in order to live a better healthier lifestyle.
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:55 am
Ok... there was some talk today on Fox News about what Massachusetts is doing about health care so I thought as the duly appointed representative from the people's republic, I will explain Massachusetts health plan.
So here's Massachusetts plan.
"It is mandated by law that you must have health insurance or you forfeit your state tax return."
"Any employer who hires more than 10 employees MUST offer health insurance to said employees."
"Health care is provided if you earn less than the poverty level and subsidizes partially if you earn up to 3 times the poverty level."
"To be considered legitimate health care, it must have a prescription plan."
Isn't that lovely? If you want to drive on the roads of Massachusetts, you have to have your car insured and if you want to breath the air, your have to have your lungs insured.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:00 am
I live in a country with a socialized health care system. Would anyone like to ask me some questions, as I've experienced it physically first-hand?
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:16 am
Behatzlacha-S I live in a country with a socialized health care system. Would anyone like to ask me some questions, as I've experienced it physically first-hand? What would you do for complicated and technologically advanced treatments that are very expensive? (aka Can you get them and how does it get paid for?) How long do you have to wait to see the doctor?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:37 am
Behatzlacha-S I live in a country with a socialized health care system. Would anyone like to ask me some questions, as I've experienced it physically first-hand? ...what does it cost your country to run this? What system of 'socialized healthcare' is it? One with a buyout plan for people who aren't satisfied or one like Japan's, where different portions of society pay for different portions of society's care? (Not that those are opposites, but as an example) I totally forgot which country you are from, so that would help too...
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:18 pm
Behatzlacha-S I live in a country with a socialized health care system. Would anyone like to ask me some questions, as I've experienced it physically first-hand? Does your average British taxpayer stay up all night, worrying about other citizens abusing the socialized health system~?
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