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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:36 pm
tokyo2040 OK, fair enough, you love Israel too. But there's a difference, you think that we can get peace by sitting back? I don't know how it's ever going to happen, but I don't want to see the Jews in Israel wiped out because they became lax about protection for their own people. I want people to be healthy, and happy and whole too. And don't call yourself selfish for wanting your friends and family to be alive, being alive is such a great thing! But those who are fighting, are fighting for others lives... I think peace can be achieved by talking it out. Especially since theres a new leader for the PLO. If Israel constantly retaliates, then bombers feel they have retaliate for the retalitation, and it becomes a bloody cycle. "Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind." tokyo What point of view were you exactly trying to get me to look at if from? I am really unsure what you were trying to say in that aspect?! "Stuff them", yep it meant pretty much go ahead and fight. But only fighiting for Israeli peoples protection... You said the Palestinians weren't a people. Yet they have a common goal, family ties, even a semi-distinct culture. You pointed them out as the agressors, and yes, they do play a part in it all. I was just wondering if you thought of how they felt? Their homes were stolen, land they've lived on for years was taken right from under them. You were talking like Israel could do no wrong, but I was wondering if you thought about how they see it? tokyo2040 Palestinians wouldn't accept Israeli funding (or they would and still be ungrateful), and everyone else would have something to say about Israeli propoganda! I think Israel shouldn't worry about giving to them, as charity begins at home. First look after all those impoverished in Israel. sad Then move on to helping the Palestinians. I assume they would be quite ungrateful and more would die trying to help them. They can be as ungrateful as they want. I was just thinking it would help with relations. Israel already gets flak for their treatment of the Palestinians, this at least would be a step in the right direction. It's an option. tokyo2040 I am expressing how I feel, and frankly I feel more and more like a terrorist, because well apparently Jews/Zionists are such hateful people! Everyone has the ability to hate, try not to let it get to you if someone focuses on just one group. Hey, they upside to all of this: I definitely know your username, now. ^^;
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:45 pm
Amitzah I think peace can be achieved by talking it out. Especially since theres a new leader for the PLO. If Israel constantly retaliates, then bombers feel they have retaliate for the retalitation, and it becomes a bloody cycle. "Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind." And how many years have these talks gone on? Yes, a new leader who has called Israel, "the Zionist enemy". Ha, I don't even know who the hell his opposition was! Well OK, retaliation may not do anything, but then if they stop retaliating, more innocents will be murdered. I think this is more complicated than just talking things out. Israel has on many occasions agreed to the peace, by withdrawing, then some stupid little teenager comes and blows himself up... You do realise if we do give, we will end up with nothing! They won't stop until they have Jerusalem. How can both sides be happy? I really do wish just talking would work... Amitzah You said the Palestinians weren't a people. Yet they have a common goal, family ties, even a semi-distinct culture. You pointed them out as the agressors, and yes, they do play a part in it all. I was just wondering if you thought of how they felt? Their homes were stolen, land they've lived on for years was taken right from under them. You were talking like Israel could do no wrong, but I was wondering if you thought about how they see it? They aren't (you have misinterpreted me), Palestinians are a collectively made up bunch of people, really just a mix of different Arab nations that fall around that area... With a made up name to use their hate under! Strangely their common goal is to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. Yes, I've have thought about how they felt, but I am not interested in their hate and jihad (ha, some life when they don't even value it). STOLEN? That's it, you did it now! A quote: '... if they heard this they would die again'-Tatiana Soskin, (remember her? That's in reference to her grandparents who were Holocaust victims). Do you also know that many Jews lived on that land before? In fact they pretty much got along! Gosh we could get into a whole debate about stealing land!! As I said: we are the aggressors we are the 'robbers of land'... xp No wonder nothing happens, Israel is way too divided in it's opinions sweatdrop Amitzah They can be as ungrateful as they want. I was just thinking it would help with relations. Israel already gets flak for their treatment of the Palestinians, this at least would be a step in the right direction. It's an option. Yes I suppose it is, and I'd hope they wouldn't be ungrateful forever... A question, would you go and teach there? Amitzah Everyone has the ability to hate, try not to let it get to you if someone focuses on just one group. Hey, they upside to all of this: I definitely know your username, now. ^^; Someone has got to eventually snap back at the critics of Israel. As I said earlier it all bothers me, because it means so much to me. At my campus a Muslim guy was walking around with a Hamas bandanna on. Not a lecturer would have dared to question it, let alone known what it meant! However, it was my residential supervisor (a non Jew) who noted it and told the guy politely not to wear it. Kudos to him! whee Amazingly, I definitely know your username too...
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:54 pm
tokyo2040 STOLEN? That's it, you did it now! A quote: '... if they heard this they would die again'-Tatiana Soskin, (remember her? That's in reference to her grandparents who were Holocaust victims). Do you also know that many Jews lived on that land before? In fact they pretty much got along! Gosh we could get into a whole debate about stealing land!! As I said: we are the aggressors we are the 'robbers of land'... xp No wonder nothing happens, Israel is way too divided in it's opinions sweatdrop Maybe I didn't make myself clear. They felt the land was stolen from them. When I asked if you thought of how they felt about it all, that was what I meant. Did you look at it from their point of view. tokyo2040 Yes I suppose it is, and I'd hope they wouldn't be ungrateful forever... A question, would you go and teach there? If I decide to be a teacher instead of an archaelogist, maybe. I'm still on the fence when it comes to my major, let alone where I will work.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:04 am
tokyo2040 Yes you were Israel bashing No. If you can't hear any criticism of Israel without labelling it "hate" or "bashing," you're not worth speaking to. And this is my lighter crticism, by the way. tokyo2040 spiritual connections to Judasiam. And you sound more like a Christian, pushing vague phrases like "spiritual connections." Likudniks love people like you, who'll attach anything they declare straight to the faith. tokyo2040 as well as, 'Jews killed Jesus'. If you ignore that part in Rusu's post, then you should have said something about 'J killed J' too... What on earth are you talking about?  tokyo2040 Because I don't care about "Palestinians", I am a "Likudnik monster"?! Well so be it then! "Americans" weren't "a people" two centuries ago, either. Nor were the so-called "Australians," and especially not the recently-created hybrid races that are "Mexicans" and "Brazilians." I don't know what your anthropological criteria is for determining who is and is not a "people," but it's nothing that would ever hold up in any manner of academic discourse. If you honestly do not care about these people, you're more part of the problem than you'll ever be of any potential solution. Tokyo2040 I hope Palestinian schools will start abolishing the teaching of jihad and start teaching them something non-hateful Right, and maybe you can give them their first new and improved lesson on "you are not a people, and I don't care about you." Sure thing. Tokyo2040 Anyway, I sure feel like I'm the biggest terrorist because I heart Israel! rolleyes This is lamentable, twisting peoples' words like that. Jyu may correct me here, but I'm now invoking my status as a moderator here to call off all Israel-based debate in this thread. This discussion does not seem to be in the spirit of what Rusu intended, and the thread will likely never be of use for its original purpose again. I accept blame in this as well, but further Israel-based debate in this thread will be removed. I'm not one for locking threads, so I'll let Jyu decide what she'd like to do. If Jyu sees fit, another thread solely for debating Israel should be made. But we've inadvertently hijacked this topic, and it should stop now.
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:16 pm
I know no one means any harm, and I apologize for letting this get out of hand. I'm not apologizing for saying my one sentence(nor do I retract it!), but I do feel kind of bad that it sparked all of this.
I know you guys don't feel any ill will towards each other and I hope- no, know- all you were saying was in the good spirits of a healthy, Jewish debate. However, it might give the wrong impression to anyone looking on or looking into our guild. I'll lock this thread not because I don't like discussion or debate, but because I think we could show a better example of our opinionation in different ways.
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