|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:29 am
Aska_Ray *reads over and is about to say something but then remembers history class* well.... this country WAS sorta founded on god. because the pilgrims came over here for religious freedom. so yeah. No, no it wasn't. The colonies were, I can give you that, but in no way did God or Christianity have anything to do with the founding of the country. There is a huge difference between Colony and Sovereign State. We are a Sovereign State not founded on the principles of Christianity (or connected with any other religion).
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:05 am
i have heard this argument made by an athiest... yeah so he doesn't realy believe in anything but here goes (it was in government class) vladimir-dk but every religion has a god. the jews have jahova the christians have god the muslims have Allah
and all the other religions have a godme
umm the christians believe that jesus is the son of jahova
and the muslims believe that they decended from athe line of abriham (god of abriham = jahova)
what about the athiests?
him their god is themself and time therefore we all have a god so it should stay... heck on all our money it says
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:33 am
Jo_Anonomous him their god is themself and time Except that god is a term meant for supernatural beings. Unless I or time (or both) are supernatural beings, than atheists have no god. Futhermore, a breakdown of atheism is: theism - belief in a god, a - not. Meaning that atheism means not [a] a belief in god [theism]. Quote: therefore we all have a god so it should stay... heck on all our money it says Now, if it were simply "god" I might agree with you, however, it is not. It is "God" which is completely different than god. God is a name, which typically (9 times out of 10) refers to the Judeo-Christian god. Whereas god is a term that is used for any supernatural being. The capitalization is a huge difference between the term.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:13 am
maybe it was a typo
maybe they ment to say "Rod"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:52 am
chaoticpuppet Aska_Ray *reads over and is about to say something but then remembers history class* well.... this country WAS sorta founded on god. because the pilgrims came over here for religious freedom. so yeah. No, no it wasn't. The colonies were, I can give you that, but in no way did God or Christianity have anything to do with the founding of the country. There is a huge difference between Colony and Sovereign State. We are a Sovereign State not founded on the principles of Christianity (or connected with any other religion). declaration of independence dude. read it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:46 am
AmmonSuperCombo chaoticpuppet Aska_Ray *reads over and is about to say something but then remembers history class* well.... this country WAS sorta founded on god. because the pilgrims came over here for religious freedom. so yeah. No, no it wasn't. The colonies were, I can give you that, but in no way did God or Christianity have anything to do with the founding of the country. There is a huge difference between Colony and Sovereign State. We are a Sovereign State not founded on the principles of Christianity (or connected with any other religion). declaration of independence dude. read it. First of all, I have read the Declaration of Independence more times than years you have lived. Secondly, don't be so retarded. Actually learn what documents do what. Finally, are you really that damn blind? Did you even see the following? My own earlier post Try reading article eleven of the treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. found http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm As you can clearly see, the U.S.A. was in no way, shape or form, founded on Christianity. Furthermore, the Declaration of Independence is nothing more than a document stating - to the British - our intent to go to war. The Constitution and the Amendments to the Constitution are what the United States laws are based on, not the Declaration of Independence. Furthermore, I think you would like to know this little tidbit, the author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson, was rather violently opposed to Christianity. Furthermore, God is explicitly mentioned as God only once. Declaration of Indepence When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. Emphasis mine; found http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html Creator (for which it may or may not be God) is mentioned only once as well. Declaration of Independence We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights... Emphasis mine, found http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:50 am
I think that this could go both ways. As a christian, i can say, "If someone wants to take "Under God" out of the pledge then they can just not say it and let those who want to, have the right for it to be in there, and recite it along with those who have their same beliefs."
However, i must consider the opposite end of this. Someone who has different beliefs than i do, and wants to take it out says, "Well why don't we take it out and let those who do not wish to recite it have that freedom. And let those who do say it silently to themselves.... because how much worse is it to say 'Under God' to your god instead of saying it outloud for everyone to hear?"
Does that make sense to anyone but me?
Honestly, this topic is personal preference... if the government wants to put these arguments into action then let us have a vote or something because that is the only way i can see it getting settled in any way.
As for chaotic puppet, i beg to differ your views on the word "god" what you said is only one definition, and i would've thought that certainly you would have taken the time (after all those times you read the decloration) to look it up in the dictionary. And i quote, "Except that god is a term meant for supernatural beings. Unless I or time (or both) are supernatural beings, than atheists have no god."
But, no worries! I did look it up so here you go:
god (2.) an image that is worshiped and admired.
That was taken from webster's dictionary.
So you see, time or oneself can really be their "god" as a thing that they worship. Because, think about it, our minds are created to worship something. Whatever that something is, people find out for themselves. Some worship money, some worship themselves, some worship another person.... it is really an endless list but the point is that whether or not we define ourselves as "religious" every one of us worships some kind of god.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:30 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:02 pm
stare well that was rather rude...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:41 pm
Antidisestablishmentarianism is illogical.
If religion were to play a part in law, then another Spanish Inquisition, Crusade, or any of the other various Christian-founded murder fests would be validated within the US, and that is not what the country is about.
Not that all Christians are bad, just saying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:57 am
CoeurVole Antidisestablishmentarianism is illogical. If religion were to play a part in law, then another Spanish Inquisition, Crusade, or any of the other various Christian-founded murder fests would be validated within the US, and that is not what the country is about. Not that all Christians are bad, just saying. yes, because religion always equals death rolleyes if you're going to make an argument, at least make a logical one. Especially if you're going to use the word illogical. I personally don't care one way or the other...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:25 am
my point is that unless you are being forced, you dont have to say it. so dont. you are an intelligent human being. two words will not influence you to change your life will they? and if you are being forced, there shold be serious snapback at the people in charge, not the pledge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:57 am
AmmonSuperCombo my point is that unless you are being forced, you dont have to say it. so dont. you are an intelligent human being. two words will not influence you to change your life will they? and if you are being forced, there shold be serious snapback at the people in charge, not the pledge. It's not a question about being forced to say it, it's a question about whether or not Congress is endorsing a religion. Edit: If that were the case (it's a question of being forced to say it), then I could legally harrass anyone I wanted, using the excuse "If they don't want me to harrass them, they can go somewhere where I am not."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:23 pm
chaoticpuppet AmmonSuperCombo my point is that unless you are being forced, you dont have to say it. so dont. you are an intelligent human being. two words will not influence you to change your life will they? and if you are being forced, there shold be serious snapback at the people in charge, not the pledge. It's not a question about being forced to say it, it's a question about whether or not Congress is endorsing a religion. Edit: If that were the case (it's a question of being forced to say it), then I could legally harrass anyone I wanted, using the excuse "If they don't want me to harrass them, they can go somewhere where I am not." thats exactly what people do and nobody sues over it. now if you then persist to the point of following someone when they walk away, then you have an issue but if they don't like it, they can leave. if you take out under god because it offends some people, then you in turn have to prevent rap music from being played in public (because it is incredibly offensive). "well if they don't like the music they dont have to listen!" what about at a school dance? you cant just leave whenever you want. what about if you are riding the bus next to someone? you cant just jump out the window of a moving vehicle. what about under god? you cannot walk out of a classroom. ignore the music, distract your mind, listen to your own music, ignore under god if it offends you, distract your mind, whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:30 pm
ok...people....heres the thing....in the original pledge it said 'under my flag' not 'under god'!! next..i believe that religion and anything having to w/ the public should be seperated!! i mean look at our judges....like the new chick that gonna replace O'Connor...she supposedly 'very religious' and to tell the truth i dont think this country needs anymore conservative christains in any positions in power!! i mean look where our country is now!! in the hole financially, doing stupid s**t all the time, i mean the country is totally F***ED!!! like i said b4 religion and anything that contains public affairs should be seperate!! i mean im not saying that all christians r bad, but look at what happened when the church ruled over the king....we went on crusades (pointless murdering) which in turn made the iraqi ppls pissed at us FOREVER.....and the salem witch hunts (what a crock of s**t and more pointless murdering)...so u know just keep it seperated and everything wil be just fine!! im stepping off my soapbox now!! thanx for reading my opinion by the way even if u dont agree!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
