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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:12 pm
Sephiroth 1st Class yea think about it, Squall (Leon) and Aeris (Aerith) changed their names in KH, so alternate worlds make sense
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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 pm
Mika-chan-pwns I saw the usage of FFVII and other final fantasy characters as something more of a fun usage of their characters such just adding some familiar faces to add a little fun, not like a bastardization as i get the feeling you think it is. I believe the adding of characters was to add depth along with backstory to the characters, so they wouldn't be two-dimensional. Basically, Aeris was there to be the voice of reason or what ever, and Tifa was there to be all "light vs dark" and lecture-y, as was her role in Advent children. And you know they did meet. No offense met, but if you had beaten sephiroth or at least watched the cut scene you would see them meeting, it seems like they do know each other considering they don't introduce them selves (which it's always funny cuz every introduces themselves a million times in the game, everyone is always so polite) and the only reason they were friends in FFVII was that cloud brought aeris back to the group to protect because she was an ancient, so tifa and aeris were friends but only because cloud introduced them, not that their friendship was an independent event, you can't exactly just generalize it like that. Just because cloud rocks hardcore at the end of the game in FFVII doesn't mean that any of the other characters were weak, they were as strong as you wanted to make them, Tifa is a strong character if her fight in advent children had anything to show us. And you see, she wasn't kicking a** in the fight against sephiroth but holding her own in not dying, and then cloud had to jump in. Sora can defend himself, he had to in order to get to that cut scene too by the way, your statement of how he can't fend him off is misleading. I see the only reason that sora stepped back and let cloud fight is that he realized it wasn't his fight to fight. anyway, those were the things that I saw as misleading statements and my opinions about them, but then again I could be reading a little too much into it, i tend to be a crazy geek, so if you disagree, just call me crazy and we can agree on that.
Maybe you're right, though. The only reason Square-Enix decided to add these characters was for fun.
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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:19 pm
solitarysumire Well I think you need to remember that Kingdom Hearts is geared toward a slightly younger crowd than Final Fantasy. Hence the Disney characters. That explains Sephiroth being slightly less bad a** and a little more Tifa girlpower. And Aerith not being dead, and Cloud not grieving her loss. Also, it's a totally different world. Like someone earlier said, they pretty much started with a clean slate. And as for Aerith and Cloud never being meant to meet again in FFVII, have you seen AC? They have at least four "spiritual" meetings. Then there is the last scene in the church, where it's practically like she's there in real life, even though she's dead. Plus there is the scene in the credits where he is obviously riding his bike to go see her. It's quite clear that the creators meant for them to meet again sometime, even if it wasn't in the flesh, or if they had to wait until the afterlife. So after this is isn't so farfetched that they could find each other in KH. And as for people's stories not making sense...I think they left some things to be interpreted, or unclear, but none of it was unreasonable. Just because they never showed Tifa and Aerith meeting doesn't mean they didn't, but even so the storyline never calls for them having to. And it's fine that Tifa is looking for Cloud. She's trying to help him, somehow, because she's Tifa, and that's what the Tifa in FFVII does. She follows Cloud around and helps him. The creators maintained the integrity of that relationship to make it familiar to FF fans. Personally, I had a lot of fun seeing all the other FF characters and how they fit into KH. And remember, the liberties that they took with the FF characters were more or less the same ones that they took with all of the Disney characters too. And no one is arguing about Chip and Dale being able to fly a spaceship...are they? Wouldn't that be a funny conversation...
Yes, it's very true that Cloud and Aerith meet quite frequently, and that doesn't bother me. But other people ALSO got to meet Aerith and interact with her. Meaning she's obviously alive.
You know....I never thought about that. But seriously...I really don't want to rant about Chip and Dale. xD;;;
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:11 pm
I don't think KH intended for the character's lives in other games to be carried over. I think that the character appearences were more like easter eggs. you know what I mean? You can't serriously admit that you didn't get a little excited when you saw Leon for the first time, or any of the other characters. I think that their personalities stayed mainly the same as they were in the games they come from, but their pasts are completely unrelated. Sure Cloud is chasing Sephiroth, but it doesn't tell us why. Soldier, Shinra, ancients, even Midgar isn't mentioned. I don't think we are to assume that Cloud hates Sephiroth for the reasons in FF7. They cast them as enemies because it was just the logical thing. Sephiroth was evil, Cloud was good. Plus every fan can't help but think of cloud and Sephiroth as enemies, and hope for an epic battle.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:21 pm
cloud26strife I don't think KH intended for the character's lives in other games to be carried over. I think that the character appearences were more like easter eggs. you know what I mean? You can't serriously admit that you didn't get a little excited when you saw Leon for the first time, or any of the other characters. I think that their personalities stayed mainly the same as they were in the games they come from, but their pasts are completely unrelated. Sure Cloud is chasing Sephiroth, but it doesn't tell us why. Soldier, Shinra, ancients, even Midgar isn't mentioned. I don't think we are to assume that Cloud hates Sephiroth for the reasons in FF7. They cast them as enemies because it was just the logical thing. Sephiroth was evil, Cloud was good. Plus every fan can't help but think of cloud and Sephiroth as enemies, and hope for an epic battle.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:45 pm
wow, when did u have the TIME to think about all this? I mean, yeah, u r right.. but still, that is some major thinking right there
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:22 pm
-hasn't posted because only got halfway through KH1 then got bored-
Really it's not a lot of thinking. If you come to realize one thing, then a lot of the time it just kind of snowballs into something more complex.
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:52 pm
Bluefire23 wow, when did u have the TIME to think about all this? I mean, yeah, u r right.. but still, that is some major thinking right there
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:54 pm
Total-Bishie -hasn't posted because only got halfway through KH1 then got bored- Really it's not a lot of thinking. If you come to realize one thing, then a lot of the time it just kind of snowballs into something more complex.
Yeah, that's true. But I HAD to get it out.
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:59 pm
[Hopelessly]
Well, I don't really have a problem with the first Kingdom Hearts, but the second one Square Enix really screwed up on. I mean, if a Nobody is created at the same time a Heartless is, why didn't they appear in the first game? Poor planning if you ask me. It seems Tetsuya Nomura was running dry on his imagination when he came up with Chain of Memories and the second Kingdom Hearts. And it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Tifa was thrown into the fray just to make the game longer since it was pathetically short. All in all, Kingdom Hearts started out with a bang, but became a horrible sellout. I mean, the first game featured bright beautiful colors, and an epic sense of fashion. I mean, who doesn't love Sora's bold look in the original game?  But then Square Enix tried to make the series "badass". BIG MISTAKE! The series was already badass! They didn't need to make Sora's hair spikier or give him a black-themed outfit. It sucked. Honestly, I'm not too thrilled with Sora's latest look since it conflicts with the colorful themes of the Disney worlds. And Organization XIII? Pfft, don't make me laugh. Those guys were utter pansies when compared to Maleficent and Xehanort's Heartless. And why is Riku so damn emo in the second game? He has no reason to be. Everything he did in the first game was to save Kairi. Sora teamed up with a duck and a dog and had a jolly good time prancing about the worlds supposedly searching for Kairi and Riku, while Riku turned to Darkness and sacrificed his light to save Kairi. If anything, he should be angry with Sora for stealing his thunder and making him seem like a villain. And what was up with Maleficent saving Sora in the second game TWICE?! She had no reason too! Whatever happened to the good old days, like in Final Fantasy where the bad guy DIES instead of becoming a good guy? Come on. Everyone in this guild has no doubt seen Sleeping Beauty and not once in that movie was Maleficent the least bit inclined to do something good, so why does she change now in Kingdom Hearts? Again, her role is to lengthen a laughably short storyline. In fact, Kingdom Hearts II was a farce. Tetsuya should've given up after the first one, or put a lot more planning into its sequels. But instead he rushed, because apparently all he saw was quicker money. Too bad it will take major convincing from someone else to get me to play the next game. And if it's just as pathetic as Chain of Memories and the second game? I won't be surprised. You shouldn't get angry with the Final Fantasy characters being in Kingdom Hearts. It's just how bad Kingdom Hearts is.
[I'll love you endlessly]
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:52 pm
I do have a few problems with the FF charecters in KH. First off in the first game I didn't like cloud. His outfit was all wrong and the wrap on his buster sword threw me off.
Second I wish they had Zack and not the knight either.
I agree with the above post in saying that the second game really needed color. However I did enjoy the gameplay in the second one better it wasn't quit as repetitive.
Most of all I didn't like that sephiroth and cloud where so weak. I want a battle like in AC with the sky turning black and the whole world on the line. Full blown action. I didn't enjoy the cutscene after the sephiroth fight, it was way too short and not satisfying enough.
Sadly though after all this I will be playing Birth by Sleep for the PSP when it comes out. Simply because I'm not planning to buy the PS3, which means that this is probably going to be the last Square Enix fix I will get. After this is most likely going to be cold turkey for me unless they plan on releasing another game for the psp.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:47 am
Ultima Firaga...I need to applause you. You're really the first one here that made a more valid point and actually took the time to explain yourself. And now that you've explained, I see the error of my ways. Everything makes a lot more sense the way you said it. Kingdom Hearts really IS the problem, there's no mistaking that. I never realized how much of a disappointment Kingdom Hearts II and Chain of Memories were until now.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion. It was definately worth the read.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:52 am
Onewing949 I do have a few problems with the FF charecters in KH. First off in the first game I didn't like cloud. His outfit was all wrong and the wrap on his buster sword threw me off. Second I wish they had Zack and not the knight either. I agree with the above post in saying that the second game really needed color. However I did enjoy the gameplay in the second one better it wasn't quit as repetitive. Most of all I didn't like that sephiroth and cloud where so weak. I want a battle like in AC with the sky turning black and the whole world on the line. Full blown action. I didn't enjoy the cutscene after the sephiroth fight, it was way too short and not satisfying enough. Sadly though after all this I will be playing Birth by Sleep for the PSP when it comes out. Simply because I'm not planning to buy the PS3, which means that this is probably going to be the last Square Enix fix I will get. After this is most likely going to be cold turkey for me unless they plan on releasing another game for the psp.
Honestly, I liked the gameplay in the second game too, because I liked the Drive feature. That made it a little more fun because you had to level all of them up to fully utilize them. And I liked the battle with Xemnas at the end.
That was also a disappointment. But then again, I sort of expected it, unfortunately. Since it wwas Kingdom Hearts and not a Final Fantasy game, I was sad to admit I didn't expect much.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:45 pm
Kairi_12 Ultima Firaga...I need to applause you. You're really the first one here that made a more valid point and actually took the time to explain yourself. And now that you've explained, I see the error of my ways. Everything makes a lot more sense the way you said it. Kingdom Hearts really IS the problem, there's no mistaking that. I never realized how much of a disappointment Kingdom Hearts II and Chain of Memories were until now.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion. It was definately worth the read. [Hopelessly]
You're the first person I've ever met that actually appreciated my ranting.
Most of the people, including those I call friends, frown upon it.
Perhaps because I have a way of picking apart a series that I don't like, Kingdom Hearts being a good example.
It took me awhile to realize that Kingdom Hearts was the problem too, but one day when I was playing Kingdom Hearts II, I decided to play the first game again.
And of course, 5 minutes in it was like getting hit by a train.
I realized that I didn't like Kingdom Hearts because they tried to make a sequel with a complicated storyline to the first one which had a rather basic storyline.
And I'm glad you appreciated my post.
[I'll love you endlessly]
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:16 pm
Well, thank you. Honestly, I know what you mean. After playing Kingdom Hearts, I knew that when they decided to make a sequel, it was going to be entirely different. But, my opinion of the game sort of changes each time. For example, if I went to go play the first game right now, I'd probably fall in love with it all over again. But if I immediately played the second one after, I'd just shoot the T.V. And vice versa.
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