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Warrior of Metal Vice Captain
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 Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:34 pm
My Hollow You should ask Warrior his opinion on that. Well, I go back and forth between my ideas on it, personally. Me being a religious person myself, I understand that Black was founded on specific values, however hateful and whatnot. I can understand why a lot of people don't want Christians in it. But the ONLY place I have trouble saying "No I agree, Christians shouldn't be in BM" is because the lyrics don't equal genres. And thus, it becomes this big arguement, "well this group can't make this kind of music because they suck." But then what about those bands whose lyrics don't revolve around religious themes? Then what does it matter what your religious or lack there of, beliefs are? You're telling me I, My Hollow, can't make a band that sounds like Woods of Ypres or something like that? What if I enjoy those black metal vocals and the sound that accompanies it? That's where I tend to disagree. You heard my black metal, it revolves around Christian ideas, mainly Revelations. I don't believe a Christian band has to make worship music. And anyway, when it comes to black metal, you usually can't understand the lyrics anyway. And when it comes to a religious person listening to anti-religious or satanic music, I look at it this way: I see a song as two parts: Music (Including vocals) Lyrics I can listen to it, and listen to the vocals, without paying any attention to the lyrics whatsoever. And even if I do, I don't have to agree with it. Most of the time I shake my head at the band, but I'm not listening to them for lyrics, or for what they believe, I listen to them because they make good music. And I think its unfair to me to not be able to listen to music I enjoy because of the extreme ideology of the musicians.
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:59 pm
I can't listen to a band without knowing the lyrics. I think that music is a way of expressing ideas and feelings. The lyrics are supposed to explain the ideas and the music is supposed to convey the feelings. If the lyrics are weak or express something that I don't believe in, I usually cannot get into the song. There have been some songs that I have listened to that have great music, but when I look at the lyrics, the song is ruined because I can't get into the lyrics.
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:05 pm
Music has no ideological inclination. It might create different moods or have different connotations (a military parade march, for example), but it itself is neither right nor wrong. There is no such thing as Christian black metal because you can't attach an ideology to what is a style of music. You can have black metal played by Christians, or black metal about Christianity, but the music style isn't good or evil. It's just a type of music.
Lyrics are a different matter. They are a type of personal expression like a newspaper column, a book, or a blog. That said, they then fall under the domain of free speech. The trickiness with stuff like NSBM is that free speech protects both ethically good and bad types of speech. So, yes, their (hateful, ignorant, narrow-minded, ethnocentric, violent) message can be supressed on the grounds that they could influence people to perform harmful or violent acts, but then one would have to admit that you're denying them the full right of self-expression. Matters best left to adjudication.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:18 am
ashlander_alpha Music has no ideological inclination. It might create different moods or have different connotations (a military parade march, for example), but it itself is neither right nor wrong. There is no such thing as Christian black metal because you can't attach an ideology to what is a style of music. You can have black metal played by Christians, or black metal about Christianity, but the music style isn't good or evil. It's just a type of music.
Lyrics are a different matter. They are a type of personal expression like a newspaper column, a book, or a blog. That said, they then fall under the domain of free speech. The trickiness with stuff like NSBM is that free speech protects both ethically good and bad types of speech. So, yes, their (hateful, ignorant, narrow-minded, ethnocentric, violent) message can be supressed on the grounds that they could influence people to perform harmful or violent acts, but then one would have to admit that you're denying them the full right of self-expression. Matters best left to adjudication. *Applauds* Where was this guy during the Christian Black Metal debate. This statement right here kinda sums it up, noone has the right to tell somoene else that they do not have the right to play a certain type of music. I mean I am not going to start a mob if someone make starts making paganistic or satanic Adult Contemperary music....thats would be strange though xd As for the whole NSBM thing...I can not comment on since I know nothing of the movment. Very interesting topic though.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:51 am
I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:37 pm
Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:42 pm
Black Metal itself has originated with some Nationalistic concept like singing about how damn cold yet beutiful Scandinavia is. But this is sutle compared the nihilism portrayed by earlier bands that NSBM just doesn't go. I think NSBM in BM is like trying to load a 9 mm pistol round into a Horwitzer.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:43 pm
My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. Seconded. I think the only "requirement" for lyrics is that they fit the mood or the atmosphere of the music.
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Warrior of Metal Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:49 pm
Warrior of Metal My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. Seconded. I think the only "requirement" for lyrics is that they fit the mood or the atmosphere of the music.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:50 pm
Warrior of Metal My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. Seconded. I think the only "requirement" for lyrics is that they fit the mood or the atmosphere of the music. My band wants to make a ambient BM song about moshing with Jesus at a downtown venue O.o I think we broke the requirement.
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Warrior of Metal Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:53 pm
PandasRGr1mm Warrior of Metal My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. Seconded. I think the only "requirement" for lyrics is that they fit the mood or the atmosphere of the music. My band wants to make a ambient BM song about moshing with Jesus at a downtown venue O.o I think we broke the requirement. Moshing with Jesus it totally bleak!
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:57 pm
Warrior of Metal PandasRGr1mm Warrior of Metal My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. Seconded. I think the only "requirement" for lyrics is that they fit the mood or the atmosphere of the music. My band wants to make a ambient BM song about moshing with Jesus at a downtown venue O.o I think we broke the requirement. Moshing with Jesus it totally bleak! Woohoo! blaugh
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:15 pm
PandasRGr1mm Warrior of Metal PandasRGr1mm Warrior of Metal My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. Seconded. I think the only "requirement" for lyrics is that they fit the mood or the atmosphere of the music. My band wants to make a ambient BM song about moshing with Jesus at a downtown venue O.o I think we broke the requirement. Moshing with Jesus it totally bleak! Woohoo! blaugh Kvlt.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:33 pm
Thanks for the support, Battou.
And, uhmmm...Mr. Gr1mm Pandas...I hate to sound like a stickler, but your NSBM banner leaves me a little puzzled. Did you mean to put "philanthropy" in there?
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:11 am
My Hollow Konrad Kurze I have no problems with NSBM bands as long as they play good music and don't fallinto turning the lyrics into drone/mindless NS propaganda. IMHO, BM should be all about anti-religion but non-polythical. That's really dumb. Really, really dumb. From Wikipedia: Quote: The most common and founding lyrical emphasis revolves around Satanic, Pagan, and/or occult themes. Opposition to Christianity is a nearly universal theme among black metal bands. War, misanthropy, and suicide are often explored. Lyrics may also celebrate environmental origins of bands, celebrating darkness, winter, snow, blizzards, forests, and other natural surroundings of northern European countries, as well as their folklore and history. Lyrical content may also be inspired by fantasy. The Austrian band Summoning focuses almost exclusively on J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth for its lyrical content. Other bands create their own fictional realms (for instance, certain songs by Immortal depict a fictional kingdom called "Blashyrkh"). Bal-Sagoth's material is made up of various song cycles, and original fantasy narratives, inspired by writers like Robert E. Howard and H. P. Lovecraft. Seems they are dumb there too... wink Anyway, that's the way I feel about BM in general and it's way rude to start calling other people's opinions dumb, specially when you don't know the person at all. If you pass by a stranger in the street that talks to you and he says something you don't like, do you just call him dumb? I bet you wouldn't... The advantage of interecting behind a monitor is that people get bolder and braver...
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