|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:05 pm
WatersMoon110 sachiko_sohma I have to agree with McPhee on this one. First of all, I don't think there is any proof that a fetus can or can't feel pain or how many weeks it is when it can start to feel it (if it can), it's all just educated guessing at this point. Pain can also go away after while (even if you're not dead). And not all woman does feel pain during most of the pregnancy (depends on the woman. Some people feel fine through most of it). People are always going to experience pain, both physically and mental. That's part of life unfortunately. But if the death can't feel any pain, then they also can't feel joy. We know that there are some things that need to be in place before pain can be felt. A zygote doesn't feel pain, and neither does an embryo. At some point, the brain and nervous system develops to the point where pain can be felt. There are many different theories on when this is, from the third trimester to the second that brain waves start forming. However, the pregnant woman is capable of feeling pain before, during, and after the pregnancy. She has a fully developed brain, and certainly would not be doing very well if she wanted to terminate the pregnancy and was forced to continue it. And I feel that she should have the final say in what happens in her body. I understand that, to you, it seems better that someone give up control of their body rather than someone dying. But I disagree. I think that one has to always be given control over one's own body. Frankly, I would rather die than give up control over mine again. Sorry, it's been a bad day.You are right, though, pain, suffering, and eventual death are all a part of every life. I think we both want to see a minimization of all of these, we just have different ideas about what steps will best achieve that goal. ' Illegalizing an action is not controlling one's body. Illegalizing murder DOES make it illegal for my body to perform the act of killing someone, but it is in no way control. Illegalizing an action is not turning people into meat puppets. For example- Illegalizing abortion wouldn't take away control of your body- you can do whatever you like, so long as it ISN'T killing the fetus, nor anyone else, nor theft, nor driving impared, nor any other activity deemed too dangerous to others. In the same way, murder laws let people do anything that ISN'T killing others. The removal of one option is not restricting ALL options to one.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:56 pm
Fran Salaska Whilst I think it would be a wonderful thing to do, and can possibly see myself donating eggs or being a surrogate, I can see why some women would rather their child was dead than alive without them. Adoption is not all happy fun smiles for everyone. Some kids go looking for parents who didn't want them, and some parents go looking for the kids they had to give up only to find that the child wants nothing to do with them.Some kids send letters to their real parents, thanking them for not getting an abortion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:50 pm
Undiscovered Artist Fran Salaska Whilst I think it would be a wonderful thing to do, and can possibly see myself donating eggs or being a surrogate, I can see why some women would rather their child was dead than alive without them. Adoption is not all happy fun smiles for everyone. Some kids go looking for parents who didn't want them, and some parents go looking for the kids they had to give up only to find that the child wants nothing to do with them.Some kids send letters to their real parents, thanking them for not getting an abortion. That, and it seems like a wierd logical leap to make- Caring about a child so much you can't give it up and have a chance at a decent life, so instead, killing it? Seems a bit... Backwards. Sounds a lot like an excuse to me, made by the people who don't care who want to sound like they do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:49 pm
Undiscovered Artist Fran Salaska Whilst I think it would be a wonderful thing to do, and can possibly see myself donating eggs or being a surrogate, I can see why some women would rather their child was dead than alive without them. Adoption is not all happy fun smiles for everyone. Some kids go looking for parents who didn't want them, and some parents go looking for the kids they had to give up only to find that the child wants nothing to do with them.Some kids send letters to their real parents, thanking them for not getting an abortion. I probably would. (I'm not adopted) If my birth parents didn't want me, at least I know they at least cared enough to give me a chance at life or happiness instead of killing me. Life isn't perfect but it's what you make it. Life isn't always going to be smiles and rainbows but at it can be at times.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:25 pm
divineseraph That, and it seems like a wierd logical leap to make- Caring about a child so much you can't give it up and have a chance at a decent life, so instead, killing it? Seems a bit... Backwards. Sounds a lot like an excuse to me, made by the people who don't care who want to sound like they do. I'm curious as to how you'd know that. It's really easy to make assumptions when you have no idea what the other person is thinking and feeling, but I don't think it's very smart. I think any reason a woman could give for an elective abortion would sound like an 'excuse' to you unless you approved of it. That's often the way it works with people in such startlingly different situations, whether it's about abortion or childrearing or some other morally relative issues. Everyone makes that mistake. Just saying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:57 am
Well, I agree with him to an extent...of course that hinges on a fetus being a person.
Saying you're getting an abortion for the sake of the child is saying that child is better off dead than adopted. I'm not sure about you, but if my mother was facing adopting me out or killing me, I'd rather be adopted out. Even if not, I'd rather make that choice for myself when I was old enough, whether I'd be better off dead than alive, because there's the chance I'd enjoy my life enough that I wouldn't want to be dead.
So it does sound sort of like an excuse; adopting out is hard. Very difficult. And it's easier to choose abortion than adoption for some people, because at least there's finality. You don't have to worry about what sort of life your child has, you don't have to worry that you're hated, you don't have to worry that someday you'll be contacted by someone you want nothing to do with. It seems pretty logical to me that saying "It's best for the child this way," would make it easier to do, especially since it's pretty absurd to say that someone will definitely be better off dead than adopted, or even that they'll probably be better off dead than adopted.
Would it ever hold up in court if a father killed his son to keep the mother from having custody because "He's better off dead than being raised by that b***h?" No. Of course not. It's backwards, and the logic behind it is selfish. "If I can't have him, no one can, because no one else can love him like I do." Like a lover who refuses to accept a breakup. And maybe they believe it. Maybe they honestly believe the other person is better off dead than without them. But it certainly sounds like justification for something.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:17 am
I have seen often from people who admit that they don't care suddenly throw out "adoption is cruel to babies!" excuse. It holds no merit from them. They don't hold that stance, but they are using it to have an emotional appeal, or to make it seem like they have the child's interest in mind by killing it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:25 am
Godess The Hyper Fangirl Why would you abort a child, when there are so many people in the world that would appreciate a child so much because they can't have one? Now hold your horseflies, there are some instances where abortion can be acceptable, such as you were raped and have a health-related issue with it. However, I suppose we can say fertility is taken for granted. It gets me so down when I go into the Life Issues forum and some any people just say 'abort the baby' as if it's nothing. If you can't take care of it, give it away to someone who can. So many people can't have children and long so much for one. You knew the risks when you were having sex, that was your choice. You shouldn't be able to wriggle out of the consequences, when that child didn't do anything to you. Aaaaaanywho, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, as you are. So tell me how you feel about that. Do you think that in MAJORITY of cases, abortion is better than adoption, or vise versa?My opinion is that the adoption system is massively overcrowded. Most of the people who want babies but don't get them have psychological issues. Or they want a nice white baby. My opinion > Your opinion. Just FYI
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:48 pm
King Seth Most of the people who want babies but don't get them have psychological issues. Or they want a nice white baby. I consider wanting a white baby to be a psychological issue. Quote: My opinion > Your opinion. Just FYI And I'm putting this in my sig. xd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:54 pm
La Veuve Zin King Seth Most of the people who want babies but don't get them have psychological issues. Or they want a nice white baby. I consider wanting a white baby to be a psychological issue. *laughs* Though I hope that any biological children I have with my husband will be white. Only in that both of us our white, so if our biological child wasn't, then they would have been switched in the hospital.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:06 am
WatersMoon110 La Veuve Zin King Seth Most of the people who want babies but don't get them have psychological issues. Or they want a nice white baby. I consider wanting a white baby to be a psychological issue. *laughs* Though I hope that any biological children I have with my husband will be white. Only in that both of us our white, so if our biological child wasn't, then they would have been switched in the hospital. Not necessarily. If you both have black ancestors, there is an eensy weensy chance that you will have a black baby. It works the other way round too, this black woman in some magazine had a white baby and said she hated being stared at in the street like she'd stolen in... it was, of course, biologically hers. People are dicks. I stand by that statement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
