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| What are you willing to do? |
| Something |
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58% |
[ 7 ] |
| Anything |
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41% |
[ 5 ] |
| Nothing |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:43 am
I don't know if I would go so far as to say by any means neccessary. However, wealth has become the true mark of power, especially with the idea of corporate identity. Which is another sticky bit for me... one that reflects exactly how much money = power... as you develope a corporate identity, you are subject to different laws, which is unacceptable in an (alledgedly) equal society. Also, when was the last time a Senator was below the poverty line? I know more than 1% of the population of our nation is below the poverty line.
Hobbes was an interesting philosopher...
However, I don't see quite the amount of motivation that fear gives rise to. The social safety net seems present, and a general sense of pointlessness washes over many members of our nation (not just the youth). People don't fear a violent death any longer, because it isn't an immediate reality for them. The immediate reality is the creature comforts they can get with their wealth, or what is best in the short-term...
Also, never feel bad about tangents, this is merely the precursor to something else... All points that are raised will have to be dealt with sooner or later, just as well to get them out in the open. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:58 am
People will remain victims so long as it is profitable for them. By being a victim, people get more things for less work than they would otherwise. I have a feeling that is may more relevent in America, where everyone is so afraid to offend another person, or another person's child, that we get little done. "Oh noes! I'll get sued!" I'd like to think this was a recent problem, but I'm not sure.
We need to train our children to be stronger, and less sensitive. Not in the good ways, as in caring for others, but we need to get them accustomed to failing at things. They do fail, many times. They need to know that so they can learn from their mistakes instead of being coddled. Parents need to learn how to say "no." I've worked for camps and day-camps for a few summers now, and every group has a spoiled little princess who can't put on her own sunscreen, pour her own milk, walk for half-a mile, or just listen without making a big fuss. We train it out of them by the end of the week, but as soon as they go home we know everything we worked for will just be reversed.
Of course this has to edges... to hard on them and we run the risk of creating cold, uncaring adults with bad attitudes. Still, not spoiling a child has many advantages, the least of which is making them easier to handle.
Training parents may be a problem, though. Required parenting classes seem to be an interesting idea, but Americans would hate that.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:00 am
Fiddler, the reason you don't see many Senators below the poverty line is, it costs an INSANE amount of money to get elected.
After all, you have to have advertising, aides, payment for researchers for smear campagins and mud-slinging purposes, it really adds up. And that's not even counting any bribes that those pesky officials might want.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:09 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:11 am
The by any means neccessary is a glance at the more extreme forms of attaining money and lessoning responsibility, such as using the legal system to sue the bajeezus out of people because you were an idiot and hurt yourself in an action having barely anything to do with the defendent. So perhaps up to but not including 'any means neccessary' is more accurate.
And as you mentioned, legal responsibility is also a shortfall, especially as one gains more wealth. Lawyer fees are downright ridiculous - perhaps there should be Lawyer Insurance.
Anyway, my reference to Hobbes wasn't about Fear being our Motivator, as he more certainly argued, but more of a key distraction.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:34 am
William Black Fiddler, the reason you don't see many Senators below the poverty line is, it costs an INSANE amount of money to get elected. And here is a giant problem. The upper 15% of the economic dog-pile are the actual decision makers in the nation. I have no problem with representative governance... so long as it actually is representative of the populous they rule. *eats more chocolate* Thank you for that stat, Lasreaine. 3nodding Also, the Society of Victims is one of my worst foes in much of this... yes, everyone has the right to raise their children as they please, but the level of indulgance isn't the only problem... I'm a spoiled rotten little brat, yet I still have some conviction. There is more than just indulgence... it's the expectation of codling, not just the coddling itself. Now, telling people how to raise their children will cause massive problems, but increasing the level of autonomy a school has to instruct the children may help... this however runs into the stranglehold that local school boards hold on the actual schools. *pours another drink for himself* Yes Arcadian... there is no shame... Wealth is now often considered to be the sign of a worthwile individual... not virtue, not erudition... just geld. Also, there is legal insurance... I personally have pre-paid legal... I get free consultations once a mounth, and trial service once a quarter, for free. wink
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:12 am
Fiddlers Green Thank you for that stat, Lasreaine. 3nodding Also, the Society of Victims is one of my worst foes in much of this... yes, everyone has the right to raise their children as they please, but the level of indulgance isn't the only problem... I'm a spoiled rotten little brat, yet I still have some conviction. There is more than just indulgence... it's the expectation of codling, not just the coddling itself. Now, telling people how to raise their children will cause massive problems, but increasing the level of autonomy a school has to instruct the children may help... this however runs into the stranglehold that local school boards hold on the actual schools. *pours another drink for himself* Point. I'm probably spoiled rotten myself, but I like to think I don't let it go to my head. I just can't find what else does it. Expectation makes sense, it is that 'wait on me now' attitude I encounter, but I can't figure how it gets there besides spoiling. Some turn out bad, some don't Natural character? Maybe. School board people are scary. And, at least in the twin-cities are of MN, run by the wealthy parents. They can afford the election, like the senators, I guess. Wealthy people attract hangers-on like nothing else. I wonder that they can't just draw lots of anyone who wants to be appointed anything and is reasonably fit for the job in question. Or made boards of all sorts, and heck, why not senate and congress, part of a person's required public service. 2-years isn't much to ask.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:27 am
So, how do we pry control of the education of the youth, out of the hands of the school boards?
Also, I am strongly in favour of required exams to hold certain offices. Furthermore... taking a bribe is treason, and should be dealt with as such. It is a betrayal of the office that is held, and the public trust. Rather than being accepted business, it should carry a very strong penalty. I am in favour of deportation, revocation of citizenship and confiscation of all properties. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:05 pm
Fiddlers Green Now, telling people how to raise their children will cause massive problems, but increasing the level of autonomy a school has to instruct the children may help... this however runs into the stranglehold that local school boards hold on the actual schools. *pours another drink for himself* No no no. More autonomy in the school systems will only allow already reactionary school boards and states to become even more so, which will in turn radicalize the students and create a positive feedback loop that could spiral well out of control. Can you imagine what would happened if Kansas got more autonomy? Goodbye biology (and hence a potential field of study and employment for it's students). Or Texas? They'd be teaching about homosexuals spreading AIDS by throwing glitter dust at unsuspecting Christian children and that the only remedy for this is to drag the faggots under a truck. If we overhaul the education system it has to be top-down.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:32 pm
Ooops, I meant more autonomy from local school boards... I would like to see a more federalised system, eve if it does require an amendment. Seeing as we maintain a standing Army without an amendment, this should be possible without one, also, a control of federal funding seems like it would help, but may be more damaging... weakening an already poor educational system. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:46 pm
Ah, je comprends. Yes, we should be able to do it without an amendment. And, as I said, I think that it's essential that we stay as far away from using an amendment in this case as possible. It'd probably be just a waste of political capital.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:58 pm
Would federalizing the school system also mean that they wouldn't be allowed to teach anything that has no basis being in that particular field?
Like opposing Evolution with IC/Creationism. I think that would be a nice side effect.
It's not that I don't like religion. Well, actually, I'm very wary of organized religion. Spirituality I have no problem with and advocate for. I'm just not happy with the way children often blindly follow their parents' faith because they don't know any better, and keep the same prejudices that follow.
Instead of teaching something that has no scholarly merit, they should teach things like History of Religion well before college level. And by should I mean mandatory. Same with Modern History and Geography. I'd also like to see a seminar of current events once a week.
There's a lot of bullshit curriculum that needs to be filtered and replaced with better material and subjects with a more efficient timetable of teaching. Waking adolescents up at the crack of dawn to learn Pre-Calc DOES NOT WORK WELL, and I don't know why the teachers would want to come in around 6 am anyway. Aside from family issues, but when the higher salaries get implimented they should be okay.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:21 pm
So, we agree that a standardized curiculum is a worhty goal?
Now, the question becomes how to implement it...
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:50 pm
How to impliment standardized curriculum? Well, there are standardized tests. It works pretty well when coupled with GPA. The problem with standardized tests is that we don't have a standardized population. Everyone is an individual, so some people just don't test well, which could reflect poorly on an otherwise intelligent person. The problem with the GPA system is that some classes are easier to pass than others. Some schools are not nearly as harsh as they should be on grading, or they may be too harsh. So letter grades are sometimes not the best representation either, since someone could be taking all easy classes and getting A's and someone else just as smart could be taking more challenging courses and getting lower grades.
But when you couple these 2 together, you get a more equal representation. If a kid fails the test, but has good grades, let them pass on. If a kid has poor grades, but does excellent on the test, let them pass. But if they fail both, clearly they should be held back. This seems to work pretty well for College Admissions.
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:58 pm
A side note on the education issue. Have you seen some of the textbook selection processes, especially in larger states, and their results? I recently found out that an old edition of my school's history text had its entire section on the New Deal pulled because a group of private citizens opposed the book's stand on FDR. It had to be amended according to their specifications or it would have been rejected by the committee.
(I hope no one minds if I do more lurking than posting, it's a bit of a habit I have.)
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