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The guild for lovers of Steampunk, other Anachronisms and the Victorian Age — be you Dashing Adventurer or Airship Pirate, all are welcome! 

Tags: Steampunk, Victorian, Science, Airship, Anachronism 

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Elliot Vidal
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:08 am


Skizzors
Not just fashion, but an aesthetic movement. For me, it's all about things looking pretty or, in the case of literature, having an exotic sense of adventure and rebellion. Plus steam.

I don't see it -- for myself, anyway -- as a lifestyle. Nor is lolita, but I'm into that too. I'm not very fond of the general feeling in both of these communities (although the lolita community is getting better, the SP community is still fairly judgmental) that you can't just LIKE things, you have to BE things.


Well, to like something all you have to do yourselfis like it. Nothing else, so by liking the literature or fashion sense you may very well say you like it. But to be Steampunk you must be Steampunk, simply by the semantics of the word. Otherwise one could argue that they are British simply because they like things that are British - a statement which makes no real sense, as in reverse you could say that by liking green, you are youself green.m

To like something you must like it, to be something you must be it. That is all there is to it, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is very much wrong.

If something is a community based around something, to particpate in the community all you need to do is have an interest. Being whatever it is, whenever that may apply, simply makes you better fitting to that community, and able to participate at a better level, but it is by no means a requirement.

And now more generally:

Steampunk is made of many things, like most subcultures. To say that it is only a fashion is simple ignorance, and is denying how the thing came about at all. First there was the literature, then there was the mindset that followed the anachronism and worldview demonstrated by the subculture. Then, once that was established, did the fashion come arise, as well as the practical side of the invetiveness prominent in most steampunk fiction. Last of course came the music, the hardest part to pin down but also one of the best pieces of evidence to suggest that steampunk is far more than fashion, or indeed an aesthetic. Else the music scene would be filled with Hoody music, or perhaps Baroque (i.e. the architecture) music, something which is both not the case and entirely nonsensical.

Also, to state that Steampunk is a fashion and not a lifetsyle is ignorant in a further way, as it effectively denies everyone who considers it a lifestyle and themselves a follower of that lifestyle, that lifestyle. Which frankly is none of the business of the people who think it is only a fashion. All that is needed for something to be counted as a lifestyle is for people to adopt that lifestyle. That is the one and only criteria, and there are no criteria to be able to argue or justify that the contrary is true, particularly as this is, in effect, an attempt to dictate the lifestle of other people.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:35 am


Vanghar: I am not a Goon, I simply lurk there for the lulz.

Back on point...as some people have pointed out before, such a demanding attitude towards steampunk (or any "asthetic lifestyle"), it feels like there is no continuum, like there actually is a point where you are or are not steampunk. It's very...ostracizing, don't you think?

Jasper Riddle


CapnAlex
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:45 am


Jasper Riddle
Vanghar: I am not a Goon, I simply lurk there for the lulz.

Back on point...as some people have pointed out before, such a demanding attitude towards steampunk (or any "asthetic lifestyle"), it feels like there is no continuum, like there actually is a point where you are or are not steampunk. It's very...ostracizing, don't you think?

I never said you were a goon; I, myself, stop there from time to time.

I don't think there's any fixed 'not-SP' and 'SP' points - it's just more people are more 'into' SP than others - things just seem to work that way. As I mentioned, SP is not 'all or nothing'.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:53 am


Jasper Riddle
Vanghar: I am not a Goon, I simply lurk there for the lulz.

Back on point...as some people have pointed out before, such a demanding attitude towards steampunk (or any "asthetic lifestyle"), it feels like there is no continuum, like there actually is a point where you are or are not steampunk. It's very...ostracizing, don't you think?


The ways I see it, there is no need for any ostraicising. If you consider yourself part of the Steampunk lifestyle/subculture then that's fine, I have no porblem. People can be more or less steampunk than each other but that's up to them to decide.

People can put limits all they like but no individual has authority over what is Steampunk, so just ignore them if they ever try to get elitist.

Also, can we please call it a "literary lifestyle" remembering how it began please. Saying otherwise only gives the elistists more chance to get their hold on it.

Elliot Vidal
Crew


Kaiya Bravery

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:11 pm


Lifestyle. No doubt about it. Even if what I love most about said lifestyle is the fashion.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:46 am


Kaiya Bravery
Lifestyle. No doubt about it. Even if what I love most about said lifestyle is the fashion.


And the air-krakens it seems.

Elliot Vidal
Crew


Ainsly

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:01 am


I think even if one doesn't incorporate obvious steampunk elements into their life on a daily basis, it's still a lifestyle, as it is for me.

I didn't know there was a subculture or even a name for this, eh, movement, but I've been attracted to steampunkish type things and ways of living all my life. I can't count the number of times I've been called "sweet and demure" by my parents friends, and by my own friends I'm thought of as simultaneously progressive and old fashioned. I expect those opinions will become more pronounced as I begin to more active dress in a steampunk manner. I'm also attracted to (and I must say have a bit of knack for) handy work, crafts, and music (though unfortunately art is not one my talents).

I think by nature those who enjoy the asethetics of steampunk are more likely to lead a life influenced by the mannerisms and customs of the Victorian age. It may not be completely obvious, but I'm sure there are subtle influences in every steamer's life.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:14 am


A lot of the time I discover things like New Age, Lolita, Cyber-goth, ect and fall in love with it, due to it's fashion. I'm quite an indecisive person and could never just choose one style of clothing, or music, or lifestyle.

But for myself, the Victorian era has always been my love. I won't delve into why, but it is. And since most of the time steampunk is associated with Victorian times, some one might consider me a steampunk life stylist.

But in all honesty, I don't believe in following a lifestyle, I think thats absurd.
If you're well mannered and happen to like the Victorian era, it does not make a you a Victorian life stylist. You are merely a Victorian enthusiast. I believe you are you, and you are you, no matter where you are. In my opinion, trying to follow a life style of a past era is imposable. Simply because there is no such thing as "living Victorian." The people in the Victorian time, were not "living Victorian," they were merely living in that time, and believe it or not, they all had different personalities. In short, I believe that you can never truly live in a past life style, only embrace it. And I personally, embrace Victorianism.

I said Victorianism far to much.
:[


Pumpkin Tea


CapnAlex
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:01 pm


Berzerker_prime
Vanghar
Berzerker_prime
Vanghar
Berzerker_prime
Kiryu the Steel Dragon
I personally like the lolita fashion. If I were a woman, I would definitely at least try to emulate the lolita lifestyle. But I know that I would hardly ever be able to practice it to its fullest due to my current living conditions, financial status, and lack of access to the most of the things that make up the lolita lifestyle. Due to that, I would lean more towards simply participating in the fashion side of the genre rather than the mannerisms of the genre.


Uuuuhhhhhmmmm...

I hope that everyone knows what the Lolita lifestyle actually is and proposes is a good thing...

If not, I would go check out the Wikipedia entry on the novel the term comes from. I have no problems with Lolita fashion, but there are laws against the Lolita lifestyle and wisely so.

I think if more people knew what the term was from originally, they wouldn't be as quick to invoke the term. And, no, it doesn't come from Gothic Lolita.

sweatdrop

Berz.

This is where you get a real problem with names - and how two very different things can have the same name (like Satanism and Satanism).
Simply, there are two lolita lifestyles - which just so happen to have the same name.

Yes, the original 'Lolita' lifestyle is not exactly a good thing.
But, asides from the name, the lifestyle that has spread from the Lolita fashion is very different - and also blended with goth to produce the Gothic Lolita lifestyle.
Maybe a few people combine these two lifestyles, but that is a small minority.


Seeing as how the fashion is originally based on Victorian era children's clothing, I don't think it's really realistic to say that the two are completely and entirely unrelated. After all, the rock band originators of the EGL/EGA fashion had to get it the term from somewhere, themselves.

That is not to say that the fashion itself is childish-sexual. Most Lolis I know don't run around pretending to be little kids and hitting on older guys or things like that; they just like to dress up. But I think to willy-nilly call it a lifestyle without at least acknowledging the term's origins is going a little far and can get one into trouble with people unfamiliar with it.

I'm on staff with a convention that takes place on a university campus. We had a bit of an interesting ten-or-so minutes trying to explain to the university officials that the local Lolita Society weren't advocating child porn. So I know the trouble that can ensue due to misunderstanding.

Berz.

I'm not disputing the term's origins - I'm just saying that they are very different. One's promiscuous as hell, the other just likes the fashion.*

* May contain simplification and traces of nuts.


My point isn't that they're the same thing. Clearly, to anyone who knows anything about it, they're not. But one has to be careful about it because there are people who just hear "Lolita" and go all "OMGchildpronSICKOS!!" on you.

sweatdrop

Berz.

I really wish this hadn't been dragged out like this (especially as it has seemed to have clogged up this thread) - the only point that I wished to make was that two things can easily have the same name without having to be branded the same by fools and their assumptions.
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