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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:54 pm
Well, I could tell you that I did say I would kill muslims. But I said that I would do that in protecting Israel for an attack on the Jews... and christians. If you thought I just wanted Genocide... well I'm sorry. I apoligize if that's what you thought.
And I want to spread seeds of Hope. When I'm heated in debate I keep my cool for about 3-4 days... and then I blast, if it goes to far...
I have to say, that when Rich over there starts accusing me for being a douche, and telling me that he is always right... I have to work twice as hard to support my awnser with faith... and often I get politically interchanged.
Knowing Rich... he could simply say that he was right in not going overboard and putting faith into such an emotion... but I think that when someone is blaming you for genocide... and doesn't know the horrors of what my people went through... it's fair to be very, very mad.
But hey! I thought African Americans were bad complaining about slavery... sheesh. lol.
Lying is a sin. And I have lied many times... but saying unconfirmed things that disprove God is true, is a sin as well... a good thing that God forgives the sins of people who believe in him.
Either way, if Rich keeps complaining about how I am doing the wrong thing and that religion is wrong being supported with websites and no quotes from the bible... he's wearing away people to fight back... and overall, I can fight to a certain point with this guy... but he's attacking religion and by far at this point doesn't care about it. ^_^... either way...
This is a Faith and Belief discussion guild, not a Debate Faith forum. We love to accept non-believers whether they believe us or not... but when they attack our religion or our members we have reason to boot them.
And, I want to make it clear that he stepped into our forums, If this was the Morality and Religion forum... it's a different story. But, we have the right to boot him or anyone who attacks our faith. Debate, and preaching your faith or non-faith is completly different.
We are like the opposite of Morality and Religion suboforum. If you talk about Religion here, and use scripture to prove what you believe or not... that is fine...
but if you are debating and just shoving non-religion down our throats and how we are wrong... it's time for us to use moderation authorities.
Therefore, if you Rich... continue to slam me, more or less, remember that you can start with a suspension for a week, and then we'll go from there. We won't boot you for life because we believe in second chances... but overall, you need to obviously stop condemning me,
And when I say stuff about you, I can... because this is our forum... therefore, yeah...
Mike is going to disagree with me here, but I can't have you saying "Jews and Muslims are all for Genocide and Link is dissalusioning here... so just believe in all of these 'facts'"
Remember I do come from Clans of Battle, and as a lead strategist and crap... I have been ignored and hit up many times such as mass reporting, and having one account of mine banned because of a mass report that a few people did... Either way, I know what you are clueing at... and I'm sorry if you have to begin to share your beliefs, and not your "facts"... that's life.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:17 pm
Link_of_Chaos0911 Well, I could tell you that I did say I would kill muslims. But I said that I would do that in protecting Israel for an attack on the Jews... and christians. If you thought I just wanted Genocide... well I'm sorry. I apoligize if that's what you thought. And I want to spread seeds of Hope. When I'm heated in debate I keep my cool for about 3-4 days... and then I blast, if it goes to far... I have to say, that when Rich over there starts accusing me for being a douche, and telling me that he is always right... I have to work twice as hard to support my awnser with faith... and often I get politically interchanged. Knowing Rich... he could simply say that he was right in not going overboard and putting faith into such an emotion... but I think that when someone is blaming you for genocide... and doesn't know the horrors of what my people went through... it's fair to be very, very mad. But hey! I thought African Americans were bad complaining about slavery... sheesh. lol. Lying is a sin. And I have lied many times... but saying unconfirmed things that disprove God is true, is a sin as well... a good thing that God forgives the sins of people who believe in him. Either way, if Rich keeps complaining about how I am doing the wrong thing and that religion is wrong being supported with websites and no quotes from the bible... he's wearing away people to fight back... and overall, I can fight to a certain point with this guy... but he's attacking religion and by far at this point doesn't care about it. ^_^... either way... This is a Faith and Belief discussion guild, not a Debate Faith forum. We love to accept non-believers whether they believe us or not... but when they attack our religion or our members we have reason to boot them. And, I want to make it clear that he stepped into our forums, If this was the Morality and Religion forum... it's a different story. But, we have the right to boot him or anyone who attacks our faith. Debate, and preaching your faith or non-faith is completly different. We are like the opposite of Morality and Religion suboforum. If you talk about Religion here, and use scripture to prove what you believe or not... that is fine... but if you are debating and just shoving non-religion down our throats and how we are wrong... it's time for us to use moderation authorities. Therefore, if you Rich... continue to slam me, more or less, remember that you can start with a suspension for a week, and then we'll go from there. We won't boot you for life because we believe in second chances... but overall, you need to obviously stop condemning me, And when I say stuff about you, I can... because this is our forum... therefore, yeah... Mike is going to disagree with me here, but I can't have you saying "Jews and Muslims are all for Genocide and Link is dissalusioning here... so just believe in all of these 'facts'" Remember I do come from Clans of Battle, and as a lead strategist and crap... I have been ignored and hit up many times such as mass reporting, and having one account of mine banned because of a mass report that a few people did... Either way, I know what you are clueing at... and I'm sorry if you have to begin to share your beliefs, and not your "facts"... that's life. It's only payback for the countless times a right-winged self-rightous fanatic has shoved their rhetoric down other peoples throats. We live in an age where everyone should be accepted for who they are not what they are nor what they look like. Unfourtunatly there are a majority of close-minded peole such as yourself that can't see this as a fact and choose to deny it. You can make whatever claim add use your little bible to your hearts content to sway my opinion but I wouldn't really waste your time. My resolve won't fade and my opinion won't change. "Good God you're coming up with reasons/Good God you're dragging it out/Good God it's the changing of the seasons/ Feel so raped so follow me down/ Fake it if you're out of directions/ Fake it if you don't belong/ Fake it if you feel like affection (or infection)/ woah you're such a hypocrite."
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:25 pm
Banned.
Reasons have been PM'd to you. I ask all moderators to keep the ban up for a week so we can sort out what to do, and if they come back in the form of a mule and continue to rant... then keep that person banned for a month. (If they come back and just apoligize or stufff... no matter what they say keep the week-long ban)
Trust me, as a clan leader, we need to regroup and change or re-instate rules so we're not condemning people here...
I also as that if this gets out of hand, and they continue to come back, no matter what... that we put the guild either to PRIVATE... which is reasonable... or contact moderator authority. This is our clan... I have no problems with Atheists but that was a clear clear clear flame directed towards me... and when I get stressed about defending myself, I get pissed and just screw the rules... it's a problem for me on Gaia I admit... lol. But in way it's natural...
Overall, please PM me if you want to re-admit them next week...
Thankyou.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:38 pm
Back from the Ban. Let's get back into this now that it's specifically the debate forum. Let me reply to a couple of your statements first Mibster. You mentioned that if we don't use God as our moral compass, then you could go with tons of different viewpoints on what is and isn't moral. My reply to that sentiment is:
Exactly right. For example: lying isn't inherently immoral in all cases, especially if it leads to greater good. Using the Bible as defining morality, because that's the only tangible link humans have with the deity, is a way of using absolutes. "This is absolutely right, and that is absolutely a sin." However, the Bible isn't an exhaustive list of all things right and all things wrong. It would have to be infinitely long to cover all possible situations. We both use the feeling of guilt as a moral barometer. Here's where we begin to differ.
You attribute your feelings of guilt to God reaching down and sensing your trespasses against others, due to your faith. I attribute my feelings of guilt to evolution and the attributes we as community-based creatures have developed in order to survive by working in groups. If you'd like to learn more about it, look up something called "Evolutionary Stable Strategy," (ESS) or "Theory of Mind," which is the ability to understad that others have beliefs, desires, and intentions.
I'll give you a quick example that gives some interesting results: Say theres a train hurtling down a track about to kill 5 workers unless you throw the switch and change the track so the train only kills 1 worker. Would you do it? Now: Another train is hurtling down the tracks about to kill 5 workers unless you push the large man next to you onto the tracks. Would you do it? Most people would flip the switch, but they wouldn't push the man on the tracks. ESS goes a long way in applying evolutionary theory to some of the choices we make, including what we feel guilty about (not that guilt is a choice exactly).
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:08 pm
Rick Dawkins The Old Testament is full of genocide and mass murders ordered by God and justified through xenophobic means. Jesus' message of "Love thy neighbor" wasn't even meant to apply to people outside his own group so Jesus' preaching can't be used to say that you should love "everyone." Through the Bible we learn about the Trinity and that they are one in the same. If the Bible shows that God is genocidal and Jesus is only concerned with the well-being of those in his own group, then how can we expect the Holy Ghost to be any different? What the heck?!?!? Do you think Jesus was a 'nice' guy. He spazed at the pharisses everyday! Oh, and not to mention the 'Temple'!?!!?!! Apparently Jesus gets his reputation as a 'nice' Guy from You! Don't you have eyes, can't you read!! Christianity isn't about being a 'nice' guy. Was Jesus being nice when he told the pharises "your father is the devil". Hey, I just realized something, You and the phareses have something in common!!!!! And you think Jesus was a nice guy...
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:17 pm
flyingemublue Rick Dawkins The Old Testament is full of genocide and mass murders ordered by God and justified through xenophobic means. Jesus' message of "Love thy neighbor" wasn't even meant to apply to people outside his own group so Jesus' preaching can't be used to say that you should love "everyone." Through the Bible we learn about the Trinity and that they are one in the same. If the Bible shows that God is genocidal and Jesus is only concerned with the well-being of those in his own group, then how can we expect the Holy Ghost to be any different? What the heck?!?!? Do you think Jesus was a 'nice' guy. He spazed at the pharisses everyday! Oh, and not to mention the 'Temple'!?!!?!! Apparently Jesus gets his reputation as a 'nice' Guy from You! Don't you have eyes, can't you read!! Christianity isn't about being a 'nice' guy. Was Jesus being nice when he told the pharises "your father is the devil". Hey, I just realized something, You and the phareses have something in common!!!!! And you think Jesus was a nice guy... Whoa wait, I'm confused, I thought I was saying Jesus wasn't a nice guy, and that his teaching of "Love they neighbor" isn't universal. For example: consider the passage of Matthew 15:21-28. A Canaanite woman cried after Jesus to heal her sick daughter, but Jesus said "it is not fair to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." By children he is referring to the children of Israel and saying that native inhabitants like the Greeks and Canaanites were only tolerated if they perceived themselves as dogs compared to Jesus' people. The woman says "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table," referring to herself as the dog. Jesus is pleased by her understanding of her low worth and quickly heals the daughter. Source: "Love They Neighbor, The Evolution of In-Group Morality" by John Hartung. You can download it from his website at http://strugglesforexistence.com/
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:59 pm
Rick Dawkins flyingemublue And you think Jesus was a nice guy... Whoa wait, I'm confused, I thought I was saying Jesus wasn't a nice guy, and that his teaching of "Love they neighbor" isn't universal. "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked. "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD THROUGH HIM. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. "This is going to hurt me more then it's going to hurt you." Ever heard that before, I bet you have. I'm done. Micah
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:59 pm
flyingemublue "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked. "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD THROUGH HIM. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. "This is going to hurt me more then it's going to hurt you." Ever heard that before, I bet you have. I'm done. Micah I'm not sure I get it again. The whole testimony of Jesus and the proselytizing he did wasn't meant for people outside the group of the chosen people. When the Bible says that God gave his only son to purge the sins of the people and save the world, it's not universalizing it. In other words, the purging and the saving aren't for anyone outside the chosen people of God. If Jesus, as a Jew, knew that the gentiles were learning his teachings he'd turn in his empty grave. Seriously, give this essay a good once over. It'll explain most of the stuff I'm talking about in much more well-laid out ways: "Love Thy Neighbor" by John Hartung. http://strugglesforexistence.com/
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:02 pm
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
This is found in Acts 11
I'll read your deal if you read the context, Start at acts 10
I said I was done.
Micah
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:06 pm
I assume this is the passage you're talking about:
"In every nation, etc... That is to say, not only Jews, but Gentiles also, of what nation soever, are acceptable to God, if they fear him and work justice. But then true faith is always to be presupposed, without which (saith St. Paul, Hebrews 11:6) it is impossible to please God. Beware then of the error of those, who would infer from this passage, that men of all religions may be pleasing to God. For since none but the true religion can be from God, all other religions must be from the father of lies, and therefore highly displeasing to the God of truth."
There are obviously two ways you could read this. The first I can see would support your claim that Jesus' teachings were universal and included all races and classes. My take on it is this: If you're not of the chosen people, but you fear God and work hard to show your loyalty you will be tolerated. That is, you're out of luck if you worship any other gods because they are the fathers of lies.
The hinge here for both of our arguments is going to be on the term "acceptable." I would take that to mean basic, cut and dry tolerance, "do as you're told and fear God, then you can hang around." But I can also see where you could use "acceptable" as a more positive inclusion of those not of the chosen people.
I'd like to take a look at the old Greek that this was written in to make sure if there isn't a more clear meaning.
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