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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:48 am
Honestly, a lot of the behavior that goes on within debates (especially online debates) makes me sad. It's like people don't feel the need to be kind or respectful to each other. I actually have a journal entry about this subject, which pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole thing. I'll copy/paste it here for anyone who feels like reading it:Quote: I like debating. Honestly I do. I've loved doing it for years. But one part of debating that I don't like is the rage and distaste you see one side directing at another. Pro-Life/Pro-Choice, Atheists/Theists, Liberals/Conservatives: the groups involved change, but the feelings never seem to. One side screams to the other, "You're terrible! You're stupid! I hate you and your kind!" and I'm left not knowing how to respond.
I am well aware that I am naive to a certain extent. For example, I am strongly inclined to believe people mean what they say. Some celebrity insists they're heterosexual? My best friend tells me she wants to be a professional artist? The person sitting next to me says they don't care where we eat? My instinct is to believe them, and following this instinct sometimes leads to me being wrong. But I keep thinking, can't we disagree with someone without that person being evil because they don't agree? Can't I be Pro-Choice and you be Pro-Life without either of us being monsters? Can't we be friends even if I'm an atheist and you're a theist? Can't we be kind to each other even if we're on opposite ends of the political spectrum?
I don't know. Maybe I'm being naive again. But I'd just so much rather be friends than be enemies with my opposition. I'd like for us to disagree with each other without attacking each other. Maybe you're wrong, maybe I'm wrong, but why does that have to mean we'll hate each other? I truly believe that you are more likely to be heard by your friends than by your enemies. At best, running around insulting the people you are debating with is non-constructive. Like it or not, talking about how your opponent is bad isn't actually any kind of an argument. At worst, it makes you look absolutely daft and makes people not want to listen to you. Maybe if we could all refrain from spitting hatred at each other, we wouldn't end up killing one another over differences like this. After all, what can you really learn from a person who is exactly like you? La Veuve Zin I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who's against abortion in the case of saving the mother's life. reggie _chan I am anti abortion in all cases even in the case of the mothers life being in danger.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:00 pm
Yes, I seemed to have missed that part but there is nothing I can really say.
I think it's bad not to make an exception for life and death situations but that's their opinon and we can't force them to change their mind.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:46 pm
sachiko_sohma Yes, I seemed to have missed that part but there is nothing I can really say. I think it's bad not to make an exception for life and death situations but that's their opinon and we can't force them to change their mind. That's true, but it confuses me that people would feel that way (along with millions of other little human behaviors). When it comes down to either the unborn human and the pregnant woman dying, or just the unborn human dying - there really shouldn't be any reason to force both to die (when women want to continue their pregnancy despite the risks - like in those two House episodes - they should be allowed, as it is their lives after all). Of course, I'm pretty biased on the matter. However, only a very small minority of Pro-Lifers feel that life-saving abortions are unethical. I can think of maybe three people I have encountered online who have stated such a thing, and two (on other sites) of them seems a little..."mentally different". *wink*
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:25 pm
Something that makes me 'feel bad' and I know I've mentioned this before, are certain organizations like the women's centre which have a strictly pro-choice point of view. Though I'm not saying they should act like abortion doesn't exist, I would even understand if they gave out information about abortion and where to obtain one etc. But I think organizations such as that should have a much more neutral stance on abortion. It's legal, here's the information, ladeda. As it stands right now, I won't volunteer or donate to the women's centre because I don't want to volunteer for or donate to a pro-choice organization.
Also on the pro-life side, it makes me 'feel bad' that so many of the crisis pregnancy centres refuse to talk to the pregnant teens about birth control. Seriously. When I went in to talk about volunteering with BirthRight that was one of the first things they told me, when we were counseling the girl we were not to promote or even talk about birth control or where they could get it because it 'promoted pre-marital sex.' That really upset me. I know that if I worked there I wouldn't be able to just pretend like contraceptives are non-existant.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:24 pm
Beware the Jabberwock Something that makes me 'feel bad' and I know I've mentioned this before, are certain organizations like the women's centre which have a strictly pro-choice point of view. Though I'm not saying they should act like abortion doesn't exist, I would even understand if they gave out information about abortion and where to obtain one etc. But I think organizations such as that should have a much more neutral stance on abortion. It's legal, here's the information, ladeda. As it stands right now, I won't volunteer or donate to the women's centre because I don't want to volunteer for or donate to a pro-choice organization.
Also on the pro-life side, it makes me 'feel bad' that so many of the crisis pregnancy centres refuse to talk to the pregnant teens about birth control. Seriously. When I went in to talk about volunteering with BirthRight that was one of the first things they told me, when we were counseling the girl we were not to promote or even talk about birth control or where they could get it because it 'promoted pre-marital sex.' That really upset me. I know that if I worked there I wouldn't be able to just pretend like contraceptives are non-existant. This made me think of something. Something that made me feel shitty, on your behalf, as it was, was when my Spanish teacher marched into her classroom and began ranting about the activities of the on-campus Pro-life group. Long story short... she implies the point that if you're feminist, you're Pro-choice. That really pissed me off. That's using the same logic that, if you're Christian, you hate gays. It's things like this that just get me so angry and sad too, because people are typecasting.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:40 pm
kp is dcvi Beware the Jabberwock Something that makes me 'feel bad' and I know I've mentioned this before, are certain organizations like the women's centre which have a strictly pro-choice point of view. Though I'm not saying they should act like abortion doesn't exist, I would even understand if they gave out information about abortion and where to obtain one etc. But I think organizations such as that should have a much more neutral stance on abortion. It's legal, here's the information, ladeda. As it stands right now, I won't volunteer or donate to the women's centre because I don't want to volunteer for or donate to a pro-choice organization.
Also on the pro-life side, it makes me 'feel bad' that so many of the crisis pregnancy centres refuse to talk to the pregnant teens about birth control. Seriously. When I went in to talk about volunteering with BirthRight that was one of the first things they told me, when we were counseling the girl we were not to promote or even talk about birth control or where they could get it because it 'promoted pre-marital sex.' That really upset me. I know that if I worked there I wouldn't be able to just pretend like contraceptives are non-existant. This made me think of something. Something that made me feel shitty, on your behalf, as it was, was when my Spanish teacher marched into her classroom and began ranting about the activities of the on-campus Pro-life group. Long story short... she implies the point that if you're feminist, you're Pro-choice. That really pissed me off. That's using the same logic that, if you're Christian, you hate gays. It's things like this that just get me so angry and sad too, because people are typecasting. Did you remind her that if your feminist you're free to make your own dessisions about being a women, and to have any one tell you other wise, that you must do a certain thing or act a certain way to be a feminist, is, in fact the act of anti-feminism? Or did you just sit back there, lettign her look like an idiot in reality...when most of the other drones were probably eating it up?
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 pm
Tiger of the Fire kp is dcvi Beware the Jabberwock Something that makes me 'feel bad' and I know I've mentioned this before, are certain organizations like the women's centre which have a strictly pro-choice point of view. Though I'm not saying they should act like abortion doesn't exist, I would even understand if they gave out information about abortion and where to obtain one etc. But I think organizations such as that should have a much more neutral stance on abortion. It's legal, here's the information, ladeda. As it stands right now, I won't volunteer or donate to the women's centre because I don't want to volunteer for or donate to a pro-choice organization.
Also on the pro-life side, it makes me 'feel bad' that so many of the crisis pregnancy centres refuse to talk to the pregnant teens about birth control. Seriously. When I went in to talk about volunteering with BirthRight that was one of the first things they told me, when we were counseling the girl we were not to promote or even talk about birth control or where they could get it because it 'promoted pre-marital sex.' That really upset me. I know that if I worked there I wouldn't be able to just pretend like contraceptives are non-existant. This made me think of something. Something that made me feel shitty, on your behalf, as it was, was when my Spanish teacher marched into her classroom and began ranting about the activities of the on-campus Pro-life group. Long story short... she implies the point that if you're feminist, you're Pro-choice. That really pissed me off. That's using the same logic that, if you're Christian, you hate gays. It's things like this that just get me so angry and sad too, because people are typecasting. Did you remind her that if your feminist you're free to make your own dessisions about being a women, and to have any one tell you other wise, that you must do a certain thing or act a certain way to be a feminist, is, in fact the act of anti-feminism? Or did you just sit back there, lettign her look like an idiot in reality...when most of the other drones were probably eating it up? Given that I had pretty much melted in my chair at that point... it was difficult to talk. xd However... there was a greater conflict of interest going on... and the problems in that classroom mirrored a much large frustration on the part of the entire school. Oh and... she's my advisor. xd Despite that one outburst, I respect her a great deal and her other views amuse me greatly.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:04 pm
kp is dcvi Tiger of the Fire kp is dcvi Beware the Jabberwock Something that makes me 'feel bad' and I know I've mentioned this before, are certain organizations like the women's centre which have a strictly pro-choice point of view. Though I'm not saying they should act like abortion doesn't exist, I would even understand if they gave out information about abortion and where to obtain one etc. But I think organizations such as that should have a much more neutral stance on abortion. It's legal, here's the information, ladeda. As it stands right now, I won't volunteer or donate to the women's centre because I don't want to volunteer for or donate to a pro-choice organization.
Also on the pro-life side, it makes me 'feel bad' that so many of the crisis pregnancy centres refuse to talk to the pregnant teens about birth control. Seriously. When I went in to talk about volunteering with BirthRight that was one of the first things they told me, when we were counseling the girl we were not to promote or even talk about birth control or where they could get it because it 'promoted pre-marital sex.' That really upset me. I know that if I worked there I wouldn't be able to just pretend like contraceptives are non-existant. This made me think of something. Something that made me feel shitty, on your behalf, as it was, was when my Spanish teacher marched into her classroom and began ranting about the activities of the on-campus Pro-life group. Long story short... she implies the point that if you're feminist, you're Pro-choice. That really pissed me off. That's using the same logic that, if you're Christian, you hate gays. It's things like this that just get me so angry and sad too, because people are typecasting. Did you remind her that if your feminist you're free to make your own dessisions about being a women, and to have any one tell you other wise, that you must do a certain thing or act a certain way to be a feminist, is, in fact the act of anti-feminism? Or did you just sit back there, lettign her look like an idiot in reality...when most of the other drones were probably eating it up? Given that I had pretty much melted in my chair at that point... it was difficult to talk. xd However... there was a greater conflict of interest going on... and the problems in that classroom mirrored a much large frustration on the part of the entire school. Oh and... she's my advisor. xd Despite that one outburst, I respect her a great deal and her other views amuse me greatly. Feh, I have a friend on SL thats like that. Though, she's not given to out bursts on such thing
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:52 pm
kp is dcvi This made me think of something. Something that made me feel shitty, on your behalf, as it was, was when my Spanish teacher marched into her classroom and began ranting about the activities of the on-campus Pro-life group. Long story short... she implies the point that if you're feminist, you're Pro-choice. That really pissed me off. That's using the same logic that, if you're Christian, you hate gays. It's things like this that just get me so angry and sad too, because people are typecasting.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:57 pm
Beware the Jabberwock Something that makes me 'feel bad' and I know I've mentioned this before, are certain organizations like the women's centre which have a strictly pro-choice point of view. Though I'm not saying they should act like abortion doesn't exist, I would even understand if they gave out information about abortion and where to obtain one etc. But I think organizations such as that should have a much more neutral stance on abortion. It's legal, here's the information, ladeda. As it stands right now, I won't volunteer or donate to the women's centre because I don't want to volunteer for or donate to a pro-choice organization.
Also on the pro-life side, it makes me 'feel bad' that so many of the crisis pregnancy centres refuse to talk to the pregnant teens about birth control. Seriously. When I went in to talk about volunteering with BirthRight that was one of the first things they told me, when we were counseling the girl we were not to promote or even talk about birth control or where they could get it because it 'promoted pre-marital sex.' That really upset me. I know that if I worked there I wouldn't be able to just pretend like contraceptives are non-existant. That's just plain stupidity on their part. If those girls are already pregnant, who's to say they won't go out and sleep around or get pregnant again? They aren't going to listen to what people say when they talk about abstinence so it's important that they know about birth control and other contraceptions and protection. Most people don't plan on waiting before marriage.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:33 pm
ShadowIce kp is dcvi This made me think of something. Something that made me feel shitty, on your behalf, as it was, was when my Spanish teacher marched into her classroom and began ranting about the activities of the on-campus Pro-life group. Long story short... she implies the point that if you're feminist, you're Pro-choice. That really pissed me off. That's using the same logic that, if you're Christian, you hate gays. It's things like this that just get me so angry and sad too, because people are typecasting. It's very awkward. Actually, the teacher who heads out the Pro-life group... I would never take him because he does have demeaning views of anyone he thinks the Bible is telling him to hate. xd I saw a full out argument between him and a student. Towards the very end, she walks out and I follow her and she starts crying and we're walking towards this event. She's crying and making these jumbled sentences and i'm trying to make her feel better. A lot better. "Can I put my arm around you? Do you have a boyfriend? Here I go!" She did but she didn't care. xp Still though... it was tense.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:37 pm
It makes me feel bad when people use their religion as justification to hate people.
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