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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:46 am
King Seth Bacchant King Seth Bacchant Duo__Maxwell
As far as spec is concerned, I'm frost atm, but I was willing to respec after I get my PvP set/items.Frost is WIN. Alt least untill Fire gets iceblock. Survivablity is really important, especially when you're learning new encounters. Frost is fail for raiding, one of our mages crafted his full frozen shadowweave set before 70, then found that out. Sorry? I guess that explains why all the mages in my old guild were frost mages. It must suck. A dead mage does no DPS = fact And a dead mage is one who pulled aggro, therefore a bad one. Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. Because the difference between frost and fire DPS is a MASSIVE one isnt it? No, especially not in raids like Karazhan, and once you get to end game raiding (BT/Hyjal), frost will outpreform fire. Crit = win. Rogues unfortunately dont get the lovely choice of specs. Rogues =/= mages. Also, a dead mage isnt one who has always pulled aggro. Maybe you dont raid, but there are LOAD off fights where you can loldie without pulling aggro off the boss, even in Karazhan. For example: Attumen - randomly charges, Moroes - garrotte, Maiden - holy fire, Illhoof - Demon chains, Aran - HAS NO AGGRO (imagine that), Nightbane - Rain of bones, Not to mention some of the trash packs where mages have to AOE, or where the tank gets ice blocked and the mob hits its next aggro target (which sometimes is and sometimes isnt the offtank) or mobs that explode after they die. Lots of opportunities there for a mage to die without having actually pulled aggro off the tank. Mages should get healed you say? OMG waiting for heals... no heals...no heals... dead mage.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:06 pm
Bacchant King Seth Bacchant King Seth Bacchant Duo__Maxwell
As far as spec is concerned, I'm frost atm, but I was willing to respec after I get my PvP set/items.Frost is WIN. Alt least untill Fire gets iceblock. Survivablity is really important, especially when you're learning new encounters. Frost is fail for raiding, one of our mages crafted his full frozen shadowweave set before 70, then found that out. Sorry? I guess that explains why all the mages in my old guild were frost mages. It must suck. A dead mage does no DPS = fact And a dead mage is one who pulled aggro, therefore a bad one. Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. Because the difference between frost and fire DPS is a MASSIVE one isnt it? No, especially not in raids like Karazhan, and once you get to end game raiding (BT/Hyjal), frost will outpreform fire. Crit = win. Rogues unfortunately dont get the lovely choice of specs. Rogues =/= mages. Also, a dead mage isnt one who has always pulled aggro. Maybe you dont raid, but there are LOAD off fights where you can loldie without pulling aggro off the boss, even in Karazhan. For example: Attumen - randomly charges, Moroes - garrotte, Maiden - holy fire, Illhoof - Demon chains, Aran - HAS NO AGGRO (imagine that), Nightbane - Rain of bones, Not to mention some of the trash packs where mages have to AOE, or where the tank gets ice blocked and the mob hits its next aggro target (which sometimes is and sometimes isnt the offtank) or mobs that explode after they die. Lots of opportunities there for a mage to die without having actually pulled aggro off the tank. Mages should get healed you say? OMG waiting for heals... no heals...no heals... dead mage. I'd prefer my actual raiders to be good enough to keep themselves and each other alive, rather than have some sub-par DPS survive a bit longer. Plus, Prince, Phase 2 Moroes, Immediately After Adds Are Down Aran, As adds are summoned Gruul, Grow 14 HKM at 50% Netherspite, in the blue beam All situations where burst damage is going to help more than iceblock. Oh, and Frost is a PvP specc, so's shadowstep. So i guess Rogues do = Mages huh.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:51 pm
King Seth I'd prefer my actual raiders to be good enough to keep themselves and each other alive, rather than have some sub-par DPS survive a bit longer. Plus, Prince, Phase 2 Moroes, Immediately After Adds Are Down Aran, As adds are summoned Gruul, Grow 14 HKM at 50% Netherspite, in the blue beam All situations where burst damage is going to help more than iceblock. Oh, and Frost is a PvP specc, so's shadowstep. So i guess Rogues do = Mages huh. If you think frost is sub-par dps, then all of your frost mages didnt know how to play, I hate to tell you this. Frost is still GREAT DPS that does in fact scale much better than fire with gear in the long run AND has the added bonus of survivability. I will say it again, that a dead mage is 0 dps. And if you're so confident in your imba raid of leet healers who never let mages die, I question why you're Gruul raids last untill grow 14 and why you think Mulgar is an issue at 50%. Maybe your DPS issues are with other classes. And OH MY GOD. MAGES DO NOT EQUAL ROGUES. How ignorant is that statment. A FROST MAGE will STILL top meters on raids (dont say they wont, because Ive seen it happen MANY times. Want to say our mages were crap? I guess they were so crap that we were one of the first guilds to kill Illidan? Hm.), a SHADOWSTEP ROGUE is s**t on raids. THEY ARENT THE SAME.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:54 pm
Bacchant King Seth I'd prefer my actual raiders to be good enough to keep themselves and each other alive, rather than have some sub-par DPS survive a bit longer. Plus, Prince, Phase 2 Moroes, Immediately After Adds Are Down Aran, As adds are summoned Gruul, Grow 14 HKM at 50% Netherspite, in the blue beam All situations where burst damage is going to help more than iceblock. Oh, and Frost is a PvP specc, so's shadowstep. So i guess Rogues do = Mages huh. If you think frost is sub-par dps, then all of your frost mages didnt know how to play, I hate to tell you this. Frost is still GREAT DPS that does in fact scale much better than fire with gear in the long run AND has the added bonus of survivability. I will say it again, that a dead mage is 0 dps. And if you're so confident in your imba raid of leet healers who never let mages die, I question why you're Gruul raids last untill grow 14 and why you think Mulgar is an issue at 50%. Maybe your DPS issues are with other classes. And OH MY GOD. MAGES DO NOT EQUAL ROGUES. How ignorant is that statment. A FROST MAGE will STILL top meters on raids (dont say they wont, because Ive seen it happen MANY times. Want to say our mages were crap? I guess they were so crap that we were one of the first guilds to kill Illidan? Hm.), a SHADOWSTEP ROGUE is s**t on raids. THEY ARENT THE SAME. Oh dear...I think you've quite got a case of scaling issues. You see, since you're in a guild that's downed illidan, you are in fact IN Hyjal and BT, the place you so assured me frost gets better than fire, but this isn't a BT raider we're talking about, this is someone who's just started raiding, and when a guild just starts up, DPS is going to be valued. See, i'm not trying to look at this from my own perspective, i'm trying to look at it from his guilds, and for a guild facing HKM and Gruul for the first time, they're quite realistic targets. (See at 50% HKM begins charging the raid, so fast DPS is a great help to make sure a charge + whirlwind combo doesn't take out a chunk of your players, and gruul at growth 14 is where you're pretty much forced to pull out all the stops and do as much damage as you can because you're ******** at that point). So you are completely free to have your own opinion on long term frost vs fire, and i'm allowed to have the opinion of my servers mage population. (Asked them this morning, the end total was 97% said fire/arcane builds, 3% were undecided). Also, frost is a build that focuses on survivability. Shadowstep is a build focussed on survivability. I'm not saying their exactly the same, i'm merely mocking you for taking my very wild example and thinking i'm actually saying rogues = mages. (The above points out the correlation between the two speccs) So yes, maybe all the frost mages I've seen were terrible, I don't actually doubt that much, but all the fire mages were ******** insanely good then.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:33 pm
King Seth Oh dear...I think you've quite got a case of scaling issues. You see, since you're in a guild that's downed Illidan, you are in fact IN Hyjal and BT, the place you so assured me frost gets better than fire, but this isn't a BT raider we're talking about, this is someone who's just started raiding, and when a guild just starts up, DPS is going to be valued. Yes, because my guild just magically skipped all other raiding content and went straight to Illidan! Or perhaps you think all of our mages were fire untill we got into BT because CLEARLY fire is better? No, our frost mages were frost from the start of Karazhan alllll the way till Illidan, and they could always top meters. Please dont think just because Im in BT/Hyjal Ive forgotten what its like in Karazhan and Gruul. Quote: See, i'm not trying to look at this from my own perspective, i'm trying to look at it from his guilds, and for a guild facing HKM and Gruul for the first time, they're quite realistic targets. (See at 50% HKM begins charging the raid, so fast DPS is a great help to make sure a charge + whirlwind combo doesn't take out a chunk of your players, and gruul at growth 14 is where you're pretty much forced to pull out all the stops and do as much damage as you can because you're ******** at that point). Thanks for explaning the Mulgar fight! Id nearly forgotten... That when the tank gets feared and loses aggro... Wait wait, all priests have fear ward now so the tank shouldnt lose aggro... that when he charges someone and whirlwhinds that... the offtanks taunt and take him back to the MT position? OMG NEED BURST DPS. If you're loosing a chunk of players to a whirlwhind then you're doing it wrong. Quote: So you are completely free to have your own opinion on long term frost vs fire, and i'm allowed to have the opinion of my servers mage population. (Asked them this morning, the end total was 97% said fire/arcane builds, 3% were undecided). Right... What server is this then? And you got your stats from? What? The retards who replied when you asked in general if they were frost or fire? Id like proof please of and almost and ENTIRE server made up of fire mages so I can LOL at them. Quote: Also, frost is a build that focuses on survivability. Shadowstep is a build focussed on survivability. I'm not saying their exactly the same, i'm merely mocking you for taking my very wild example and thinking i'm actually saying rogues = mages. (The above points out the correlation between the two speccs) No, you said very clearly that rogues = mages. I can quote it for you: Quote: Oh, and Frost is a PvP specc, so's shadowstep. So i guess Rogues do = Mages huh. With a nice little "huh" for emphasis. Nothing in your statment said anything to lead one to believe you meant otherwise. And like I said before, there is no correlation between the frost tree for mages and shadowstep for rogues. Frost can have both PVE AND PVP specs. If you want to compare it to something, compare it to a shadowpriest, who also have both PVE and PVP specs in a SINGLE TREE. Imagine that.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:47 pm
I'm not going to continue this charade. Who gives a ******** anymore. You don't roll as a mage, and I don't roll as a mage, so it doesn't really matter does it. In most of SSC Fire is better due to immunities, and in illidan frost is better. There, you see what i did, I made a valid point you can't disagree with. Only thing left is. King Seth Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. There's the comparison, there. In the spirit of mending and forgiveness, i offer this on the altar of mage, and I edited all my snarky comments out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FET09MYis_g ULTIMATE. GNOME. MAGE. EVAR.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:07 pm
King Seth I'm not going to continue this charade. Who gives a ******** anymore. You don't roll as a mage, and I don't roll as a mage, so it doesn't really matter does it. In most of SSC Fire is better due to immunities, and in illidan frost is better. There, you see what i did, I made a valid point you can't disagree with. Only thing left is. King Seth Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. There's the comparison, the next part was mocking you, (the next part is the one you quoted). Don't worry, just keep trying and one day I have TOTAL faith you'll understand. ...ok, maybe not total, but hope. So, as soon as I ask for information in regards to these "facts" you posted about 97% of your servers mages being fire, you back down. I understand. And simply because one fight in SSC has a boss thats immune to frost, doesnt mean the fire will be better in the entire (or even most of) SSC. Hydross is more about AOE damage than single target anyway. King Seth Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. Your point there is that frost is only a PVP spec, which it isnt, still you fail. So it doesnt really matter which retarded quote of yours I take then, does it. EDIT: Its too late, I found your snarky comments.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:24 pm
Bacchant King Seth I'm not going to continue this charade. Who gives a ******** anymore. You don't roll as a mage, and I don't roll as a mage, so it doesn't really matter does it. In most of SSC Fire is better due to immunities, and in illidan frost is better. There, you see what i did, I made a valid point you can't disagree with. Only thing left is. King Seth Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. There's the comparison, the next part was mocking you, (the next part is the one you quoted). Don't worry, just keep trying and one day I have TOTAL faith you'll understand. ...ok, maybe not total, but hope. So, as soon as I ask for information in regards to these "facts" you posted about 97% of your servers mages being fire, you back down. I understand. And simply because one fight in SSC has a boss thats immune to frost, doesnt mean the fire will be better in the entire (or even most of) SSC. Hydross is more about AOE damage than single target anyway. King Seth Fact is, mage is a DPS class, so you want him specced for full dps. I don't let my rogues run shadowstep. Your point there is that frost is only a PVP spec, which it isnt, still you fail. So it doesnt really matter which retarded quote of yours I take then, does it. EDIT: Its too late, I found your snarky comments. Look child, I appreciate your skill in arguing, but just because I am laying down, doesn't mean you have to kick me. I get it, you're not too bright, and chances are you don't get on well with many people, so have this victory, I hope whatever modicum of joy this brings you makes you feel better about your life. Oh, and here's the thing, I'M ACTIVELY SAYING FROST IS A PVP SPECC, SO EVEN IF I'M WRONG THE POINT REMAINS THAT I AM MAKING THE CONNECTION FROM MY OWN POINT OF VIEW AND THEREFORE I AM MOCKING YOU. SIMPLY BECAUSE I DO IT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE DOES NOT MAKE IT ANY LESS S CONNECTION. I hope the caps help you learn. @OP Go arcane, just to shut us both up.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:15 am
King Seth Look child, I appreciate your skill in arguing, but just because I am laying down, doesn't mean you have to kick me. I get it, you're not too bright, and chances are you don't get on well with many people, so have this victory, I hope whatever modicum of joy this brings you makes you feel better about your life. Oh, and here's the thing, I'M ACTIVELY SAYING FROST IS A PVP SPECC, SO EVEN IF I'M WRONG THE POINT REMAINS THAT I AM MAKING THE CONNECTION FROM MY OWN POINT OF VIEW AND THEREFORE I AM MOCKING YOU. SIMPLY BECAUSE I DO IT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE DOES NOT MAKE IT ANY LESS S CONNECTION. I hope the caps help you learn. @OP Go arcane, just to shut us both up. "Lets agree to disagree" Omg a polite way to end an argument!! You learn something new every day. Calling someone names (especially names like "child" lol irony), and they typing at them in all caps isnt a good way to shut them up. So dont give me that pompus attitude and expect me to think "lol okay its over" Frost is a PVP spec, but frost is ALSO a PVE spec, whereas shadowstep is not. They still arent comparable. @OP dont go arcane, if there was spec thats not PVE in any way at all, it would be arcane.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:52 pm
Surely the best raiding spec out their is Arcane. You don't see 8k arcane blast crits, but arcane spells are a consistant amount of damage that's definitely not to be sniffed at; but more importantly arcane specs end up having more mana buffs/talents so they last longer mean less time away from attacking to replenish mana and with one of the first arcane talents you reduce your agro with arcane spells by a huge amount meaning you'd be hard pushed to ever pull agro. Which is perfect.
Overall, I would believe any mage class could be used for raiding or PvP, it's all about working on the strengths within each talent tree.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:48 pm
Duo__Maxwell Surely the best raiding spec out their is Arcane. You don't see 8k arcane blast crits, but arcane spells are a consistant amount of damage that's definitely not to be sniffed at; but more importantly arcane specs end up having more mana buffs/talents so they last longer mean less time away from attacking to replenish mana and with one of the first arcane talents you reduce your agro with arcane spells by a huge amount meaning you'd be hard pushed to ever pull agro. Which is perfect.
Overall, I would believe any mage class could be used for raiding or PvP, it's all about working on the strengths within each talent tree.
Arcane is good, just not arcane to nuke. Arcane/frost or arcane/fire are very viable pve builds. You get the benifit of arcane with also having the benifit of the single target specs.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:33 am
Get your head out of SSC/TK's a** and you will see that with the large amount of spell damage gained from tier 6 level gear it excels beyond frost or arcane.
Arcane is good, with two piece tier 5 and half cast meta gem.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:25 am
Kimberly Ferris Get your head out of SSC/TK's a** and you will see that with the large amount of spell damage gained from tier 6 level gear it excels beyond frost or arcane. Arcane is good, with two piece tier 5 and half cast meta gem. Yeah, it was hard killing Illidan with all frost mages while my head was up SSC/TK's a**.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:00 pm
Would you just ******** grow up and stop bickering?
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:09 am
Karnokoto
Would you just ******** grow up and stop bickering?I did!!! I IS A GROWN UP. biggrin blaugh
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