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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:12 pm
Incarcerated_love 1. This is an assumption, the Bible says nothing about people never enjoying themselves physically. God has given us many things that are physically pleasureful, take food for one. God made many, many varieties of different tastes and textures that is physically pleasing, though over indulgence is a sin (gluttony) and makes you fat. God gave us our bodies for people to play sports with, which is also physically pleasureful. I could go on. This is a false statement unless you don't believe in that Bible. Firstly, I don't believe in the bible, as I'm not a Christian. But, that aside, I've read it, and I know it. I tried to make the same point - the bible doesn't say it is wrong to enjoy physical pleasure, I never claimed it did. You're perhaps confusing physical pleasure of a sexual nature with physical pleasure of a non-sexual nature - I didn't specifically mention one or the other because there is no distinction at a broader level. Making out, hugging, holding hands, and other non-sexual acts of closeness are still not something that a lot of older Christians are alright with. They say it leads to pre-marital sex. Even though none of that pleasure is sexual in nature. The question is if it's lustful in nature. Incarcerated_love 2. A generalization, if Jesus were going to your church do you think He would like the attitude? How did Jesus react to Mary Madeline after she was found guilty of adultery? He didn't throw any stones did he? No, a church as a body should reflect Jesus, a person should reflect Jesus. But we don't, not too many people seek the Lord, or even spend much time with Him at all. The church, or any church is going to have it's problems, just like we all have sin to deal with. You can not blame God for man's short comings. I think you're going off on a tangent here, with the assumption I'm saying things I'm not. I never claimed masturbation was wrong in any way, nor that the bible said it was. I simple stated that a lot of people are of the OPINION that it is, and OPINIONS are not FACTS. What is FACT is that a lot of older Christians believe it's wrong, because of the OPINIONS they were raised to have themselves. Run a poll of your church, especially the above 50 crowd, if you'd like to get an exact number. We've both established the bible says nothing is wrong (or right) about masturbating, so obviously people who feel it is wrong or right are expressing their opinion - see how many people think it's wrong or right vs have no feeling about it. Incarcerated_love 3. Yes, you are absolutely right! the Bible doesn't say masturbation is wrong. It says lust is wrong! Be very careful about interpretations, you will know if it is God lead. Question the Lord if you have a problem with a verse or an issue that your Church is teaching you. It might just be that you are feeling convicted. I agree with the first part there, including the fact that the bible does specifically say lust is wrong. It's one of the 7 deadly sins, as well, for good reason. Your advice about being careful about interpretations is very good - the same thing I said in my 1st paragraph. Opinions are not facts, and should not be taken as such. Since it isn't defined in the bible (masturbating being right or wrong), all people *can* offer are opinions. Thus, I suggested the 2nd paragraph to the original poster to form her own opinion, and let his/her friend have their opinion as well - it wasn't going to hurt anybody. I never stated anywhere I had any problems with any verses, or teachings, or am feeling convicted. Again, I'm not even Christian, and I have no problems with masturbating. I think you're misinterpreting my post, friend. For the record, I was raised Christian and have the capability of seeing things from a Christian point of view as well as from the point of view of my own faith. Since this question was asked from a Christian perspective, that's what I replied from.
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:34 pm
haha it makes me think about the book i am writing.
Anyway, the act is not sin. but the lust that fuels it is. makes sense?
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 pm
... i dont know if this is something that is neccesarily up your alley to admonish him for.
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:35 am
trinity343 lordstar trinity343 Mein Kulturkampf etchedspirit Smexasaur So I have a guy-friend. His name is Josh.
I found out recently that he masturbates. When I walked in on him. eek
I ran out of the room of course, but before that day he told me he was Christian. So I spoke to him the next day about it, (Very uncomfortably) and he said that it's not a sin to masturbate, because you're relieving yourself of sexual urges that the devil is giving you. He called it 'cleansing.'
What do you think I should tell him?
Masturbation is a sin, right? Uh....Ok, Masturbation is a sensitive subject to say if it's wrong or not, uh...Personally I think it is kinda wrong and people shouldn't do it. My mother on the other hand (yes my mother) says that she doesn't think it's wrong as long as your not lusting over it or someone if and when you do it........When I heard this I was like ehh.....no i still think it's wrong but whatever. If your friend 'relieves' himself of that sexual urge then all he's doing is giving in to the devil's tempations.... All masturbation creates is false expectations, so when you get married you might think that it will feel this |---------------------------------------------| good, when in reality, it might just be |----------------------------| this good. It's the same with watching porn, but that's it's own deal altogether But all this is actually "natural". It's gonna happen whether the person know or thinks it's a sin or not. Best thing is to pray to God and ask for strength to help break the habit Okay, first off, I would like you to find one guy who has had both his right hand AND another person, and thinks that the hand is better. I can guarantee you, you won't find one. That said, I feel masturbation is completely natural. Ultrasounds have shown fetii masturbating in the womb, babies do it from about the same day they figure out they can move their hands past their stomach, small children will do it without seeing a thing wrong with it, simply because it feels good. It releases dopamines into the brain, calming and relaxing the person. I've read about tribes in Africa where the mothers will masturbate crying children to calm them down. As for your friend's notion of "cleansing", he could have chosen a better way to describe it, but in essence, it is correct. If you don't masturbate for a few days, your lust and self-control in regards to it go completely out of whack. I've read dozens of testimonials from people who gave up masturbating, and days or weeks later, found themselves climbing happily into bed with their girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, or people they met off the street. They could easily control their lusts towards people when they were masturbating, but without that, they have no outlet for those sexual urges. To etchedspirit, I have a question: why is it still wrong if no lust is involved? Isn't lust supposed to be at the root of every kind of sexual immorality? While I feel for you (It's VERY uncomfortable to walk into a room and find your friend/s naked, as I found out a few months ago. @_@ Especially when you have this sneaking suspicion that you might be at the root of it.), I can't really tell you to do anything about it but accept him for it. ^-^; Any questions for me? (I've researched the matter fairly thoroughly.) yes the root for sexual immorality is lust....but the root to all sin is selfishness and masturbation is just the fulfilling of one's own selfish desires. it is almost impossible to not have some fantasy going on in your head while masturbating..even if you don't start with one there it forms from b/c the chemicals released in the process move your mind towards that thinking. the essence of relieving one's self is an selfish act in and of it's self. now to Smexasaur: just b/c he does masturbate doesn't mean he isn't a Christian, whoever i don't agree with his point of view that sexual urges are from the devil. God created us to be sexual beings and so in that case sexual urges are completely natural for our bodies and minds to feel. however there are healthy ways to get relief (not through masturbation though). it will be different for each person i'm sure, but if he were to ask God for healthy ways to get read of sexual stress God will provide, for some people it is hard-tiring work for others it could be just praying and reading God's word. Selfishness implies that someone else could be benifiting as well...and seeing none rise to clame what could be theirs I see no problem. since when does being selfish imply that someone else could benefit? isn't the very meaning of being selfish to benefit one's self without regard to anyone else? not benifiting from another selfish act but not being able to benifit from somthing because of a anothers selfish act. and in this case I just don't see it.
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:41 am
Incarcerated_love PhaseBurn 1. The idea that masturbation is wrong usually stems from the fact that it provides physical pleasure, 2. which a lot of older traditional Christians consider wrong. 3. Nowhere in the bible does it say anything about masturbation being wrong (or right, for that matter) so it's open to quite a fair bit of interpretation. 1. This is an assumption, the Bible says nothing about people never enjoying themselves physically. God has given us many things that are physically pleasureful, take food for one. God made many, many varieties of different tastes and textures that is physically pleasing, though over indulgence is a sin (gluttony) and makes you fat. God gave us our bodies for people to play sports with, which is also physically pleasureful. I could go on. This is a false statement unless you don't believe in that Bible. 2. A generalization, if Jesus were going to your church do you think He would like the attitude? How did Jesus react to Mary Madeline after she was found guilty of adultery? He didn't throw any stones did he? No, a church as a body should reflect Jesus, a person should reflect Jesus. But we don't, not too many people seek the Lord, or even spend much time with Him at all. The church, or any church is going to have it's problems, just like we all have sin to deal with. You can not blame God for man's short comings. 3. Yes, you are absolutely right! the Bible doesn't say masturbation is wrong. It says lust is wrong! Be very careful about interpretations, you will know if it is God lead. Question the Lord if you have a problem with a verse or an issue that your Church is teaching you. It might just be that you are feeling convicted. Just to point it out He didn't say anything about the Bible
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:53 pm
lordstar trinity343 lordstar trinity343 Mein Kulturkampf Okay, first off, I would like you to find one guy who has had both his right hand AND another person, and thinks that the hand is better. I can guarantee you, you won't find one. That said, I feel masturbation is completely natural. Ultrasounds have shown fetii masturbating in the womb, babies do it from about the same day they figure out they can move their hands past their stomach, small children will do it without seeing a thing wrong with it, simply because it feels good. It releases dopamines into the brain, calming and relaxing the person. I've read about tribes in Africa where the mothers will masturbate crying children to calm them down. As for your friend's notion of "cleansing", he could have chosen a better way to describe it, but in essence, it is correct. If you don't masturbate for a few days, your lust and self-control in regards to it go completely out of whack. I've read dozens of testimonials from people who gave up masturbating, and days or weeks later, found themselves climbing happily into bed with their girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, or people they met off the street. They could easily control their lusts towards people when they were masturbating, but without that, they have no outlet for those sexual urges. To etchedspirit, I have a question: why is it still wrong if no lust is involved? Isn't lust supposed to be at the root of every kind of sexual immorality? While I feel for you (It's VERY uncomfortable to walk into a room and find your friend/s naked, as I found out a few months ago. @_@ Especially when you have this sneaking suspicion that you might be at the root of it.), I can't really tell you to do anything about it but accept him for it. ^-^; Any questions for me? (I've researched the matter fairly thoroughly.) yes the root for sexual immorality is lust....but the root to all sin is selfishness and masturbation is just the fulfilling of one's own selfish desires. it is almost impossible to not have some fantasy going on in your head while masturbating..even if you don't start with one there it forms from b/c the chemicals released in the process move your mind towards that thinking. the essence of relieving one's self is an selfish act in and of it's self. now to Smexasaur: just b/c he does masturbate doesn't mean he isn't a Christian, whoever i don't agree with his point of view that sexual urges are from the devil. God created us to be sexual beings and so in that case sexual urges are completely natural for our bodies and minds to feel. however there are healthy ways to get relief (not through masturbation though). it will be different for each person i'm sure, but if he were to ask God for healthy ways to get read of sexual stress God will provide, for some people it is hard-tiring work for others it could be just praying and reading God's word. Selfishness implies that someone else could be benifiting as well...and seeing none rise to clame what could be theirs I see no problem. since when does being selfish imply that someone else could benefit? isn't the very meaning of being selfish to benefit one's self without regard to anyone else? not benifiting from another selfish act but not being able to benifit from somthing because of a anothers selfish act. and in this case I just don't see it. that made absolutely no sense
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:36 pm
trinity343 lordstar trinity343 lordstar trinity343 Mein Kulturkampf Okay, first off, I would like you to find one guy who has had both his right hand AND another person, and thinks that the hand is better. I can guarantee you, you won't find one. That said, I feel masturbation is completely natural. Ultrasounds have shown fetii masturbating in the womb, babies do it from about the same day they figure out they can move their hands past their stomach, small children will do it without seeing a thing wrong with it, simply because it feels good. It releases dopamines into the brain, calming and relaxing the person. I've read about tribes in Africa where the mothers will masturbate crying children to calm them down. As for your friend's notion of "cleansing", he could have chosen a better way to describe it, but in essence, it is correct. If you don't masturbate for a few days, your lust and self-control in regards to it go completely out of whack. I've read dozens of testimonials from people who gave up masturbating, and days or weeks later, found themselves climbing happily into bed with their girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, or people they met off the street. They could easily control their lusts towards people when they were masturbating, but without that, they have no outlet for those sexual urges. To etchedspirit, I have a question: why is it still wrong if no lust is involved? Isn't lust supposed to be at the root of every kind of sexual immorality? While I feel for you (It's VERY uncomfortable to walk into a room and find your friend/s naked, as I found out a few months ago. @_@ Especially when you have this sneaking suspicion that you might be at the root of it.), I can't really tell you to do anything about it but accept him for it. ^-^; Any questions for me? (I've researched the matter fairly thoroughly.) yes the root for sexual immorality is lust....but the root to all sin is selfishness and masturbation is just the fulfilling of one's own selfish desires. it is almost impossible to not have some fantasy going on in your head while masturbating..even if you don't start with one there it forms from b/c the chemicals released in the process move your mind towards that thinking. the essence of relieving one's self is an selfish act in and of it's self. now to Smexasaur: just b/c he does masturbate doesn't mean he isn't a Christian, whoever i don't agree with his point of view that sexual urges are from the devil. God created us to be sexual beings and so in that case sexual urges are completely natural for our bodies and minds to feel. however there are healthy ways to get relief (not through masturbation though). it will be different for each person i'm sure, but if he were to ask God for healthy ways to get read of sexual stress God will provide, for some people it is hard-tiring work for others it could be just praying and reading God's word. Selfishness implies that someone else could be benifiting as well...and seeing none rise to clame what could be theirs I see no problem. since when does being selfish imply that someone else could benefit? isn't the very meaning of being selfish to benefit one's self without regard to anyone else? not benifiting from another selfish act but not being able to benifit from somthing because of a anothers selfish act. and in this case I just don't see it. that made absolutely no sense If you are the only person who can benefit then in no way is such an act selfish. However if someone else is not benefiting because you are then perhaps that could be considered selfish. In this case the act does not harm or take away any enjoyment for anyone thus it is not selfish.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:54 pm
etchedspirit And....why the heck would anyone want to mastercate while they are married anyway? All they have to do is ask their partner to have intercourse with them and then their sexual need are met.....then again the other person might not be up for it at the moment...hmmmm
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:03 pm
Smexasaur So I have a guy-friend. His name is Josh.
I found out recently that he masturbates. When I walked in on him. eek
I ran out of the room of course, but before that day he told me he was Christian. So I spoke to him the next day about it, (Very uncomfortably) and he said that it's not a sin to masturbate, because you're relieving yourself of sexual urges that the devil is giving you. He called it 'cleansing.'
What do you think I should tell him?
Masturbation is a sin, right? Well this is really simple.. If it causes you to lust then it is a sin, it's really that simple. If somebody can actually "masturbate" without lusting then it isn't really a sin. It's really shameful and depressing, really unloving to your wife or husband and destroys God's concept of marriage, but that doesn't make it a sin or maybe it does, you could be the judge of that.. Truthfully it isn't a need, if you trust God then it isn't a health issue. So all in all it is futile to try and justify yourself if you masturbate. It's lustful unless you have some kind of ultra will power. Then if it isn't lustful then it's just you trying to be healthy it may be more justifiable to you, but ultimately it's your own conviction. Between you and God and nobody else. Matthew 5:27-30 (Jesus talking about sexual lust as a sin) " "You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Do not commit adultery.' But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye-even if it is your good eye causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand-even if it is your stronger hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. " Sometimes masturbation is from our own mistakes in life and some of them can't be fixed except through God, but like I said ultimately it's between you and God, so just pray about it. Jesus didn't say "masturbation" was a sin, he said lust was. If masturbation causes you to lust then cut it off.
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:40 am
Enigma in a Scribble If masturbation causes you to lust then cut it off.
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:18 am
Lady Kayura Enigma in a Scribble If masturbation causes you to lust then cut it off. Pray about it, I mean like I said it's your own conviction. If God is saying no and you continue to do it then you know you are sinning.
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:21 pm
Enigma in a Scribble Smexasaur So I have a guy-friend. His name is Josh.
I found out recently that he masturbates. When I walked in on him. eek
I ran out of the room of course, but before that day he told me he was Christian. So I spoke to him the next day about it, (Very uncomfortably) and he said that it's not a sin to masturbate, because you're relieving yourself of sexual urges that the devil is giving you. He called it 'cleansing.'
What do you think I should tell him?
Masturbation is a sin, right? Well this is really simple.. If it causes you to lust then it is a sin, it's really that simple. If somebody can actually "masturbate" without lusting then it isn't really a sin. It's really shameful and depressing, really unloving to your wife or husband and destroys God's concept of marriage, but that doesn't make it a sin or maybe it does, you could be the judge of that.. Truthfully it isn't a need, if you trust God then it isn't a health issue. So all in all it is futile to try and justify yourself if you masturbate. It's lustful unless you have some kind of ultra will power. Then if it isn't lustful then it's just you trying to be healthy it may be more justifiable to you, but ultimately it's your own conviction. Between you and God and nobody else. Matthew 5:27-30 (Jesus talking about sexual lust as a sin) " "You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Do not commit adultery.' But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye-even if it is your good eye causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand-even if it is your stronger hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. " Sometimes masturbation is from our own mistakes in life and some of them can't be fixed except through God, but like I said ultimately it's between you and God, so just pray about it. Jesus didn't say "masturbation" was a sin, he said lust was. If masturbation causes you to lust then cut it off.would not the reason that it cause shame and depression give a clue that something is a sin anyway. sin naturally pulls us into a state of shame, once we are able to recognize the sin in our life anyway, the reason being b/c sin is being disobedient to God which when we are we don't want to come to God b/c we are ashamed of having disobeyed him. also if it is hurtful to your spouse...future or present...would that not to be a sin in and of itself, b/c if you know that it will hurt your spouse and you do it anyway then by definition it is a selfish act. and being selfish, self-centered, we are being sinful
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:25 pm
trinity343 would not the reason that it cause shame and depression give a clue that something is a sin anyway. sin naturally pulls us into a state of shame, once we are able to recognize the sin in our life anyway, the reason being b/c sin is being disobedient to God which when we are we don't want to come to God b/c we are ashamed of having disobeyed him. also if it is hurtful to your spouse...future or present...would that not to be a sin in and of itself, b/c if you know that it will hurt your spouse and you do it anyway then by definition it is a selfish act. and being selfish, self-centered, we are being sinful Exactly.. I realised after I posted, I should've been more blunt and ended my post with "Basically masturbation IS a sin.".
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:02 pm
Enigma in a Scribble "Basically masturbation IS a sin.". Yeah. I dunno what I should say, since I haven't read a single post ... So I guess I won't say anything unless you want me to (having not read anything.)
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:20 am
I don't believe masturbation is a sin at all.
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