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 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:03 am
Never said anything about the situation starting when I was 13. I was around 8-10 when it started happening. I was 13 when I comfronted my mother. But that is not the point. The thing is, Sasuke is a very strong person. I don't even think he realises he lets his brother get to him.
Sometimes it seems that Sasuke just thinks that everything is about him. But I can forgive that because of losing family. Yes, it was not fair for that to happen. But things happen. Death happens. Even though it happened when he was a a young child, those wounds are just as freash as the day it happened. I sm almost certain that nobody accknowleged to Sasuke that "It was NOT his fault" for the deaths of his clan members. Those who have been hurt emotionally, mentally, and spiritually cannot heal until those around them acknowlegde the "victim" that it did happen and that it was not his fault and to let them know that they will help them move on. Nobody was really awear of the pain Sasuke was really going through until he left. They just labled him as "cool" and all that stuff when he was obviously showing signs that he was not ok. He enailiated himself from others. Didn't talk much. Ploting. Normally these things people do not see as something seriouse. But didn't Itachi do the same things before he killed his family? I am sure he did. But nobody said anything because we as humans tend to sweep things under the rug. If we don't see it, it doesn't exist and it is not a problem. And that is what everybody was doing to Sasuke. Obviously Kakashi knew what happened to Sasuke and when he asked him what his dream was. And he was like "Obviouse..." . He could have stopped or at least slowed down the process of Sasuke leaving. Or when Itachi came to try and take Naruto. If Sasuke wouldn't talk about it, Naruto would have explained. And one of the adults could have spoken to him about what happened and that it wasn't his fault.
It makes me very sad that Sasuke just put up the brave act of holding such a burrden. No child should deal with that. But there are still people who have gone through it. But some of them do not let those bad things get in the way with life.
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:22 pm
Sai_Man_Secks Never said anything about the situation starting when I was 13. I was around 8-10 when it started happening. I was 13 when I comfronted my mother. But that is not the point. The thing is, Sasuke is a very strong person. I don't even think he realises he lets his brother get to him. Sometimes it seems that Sasuke just thinks that everything is about him. But I can forgive that because of losing family. Yes, it was not fair for that to happen. But things happen. Death happens. Even though it happened when he was a a young child, those wounds are just as freash as the day it happened. I sm almost certain that nobody accknowleged to Sasuke that "It was NOT his fault" for the deaths of his clan members. Those who have been hurt emotionally, mentally, and spiritually cannot heal until those around them acknowlegde the "victim" that it did happen and that it was not his fault and to let them know that they will help them move on. Nobody was really awear of the pain Sasuke was really going through until he left. They just labled him as "cool" and all that stuff when he was obviously showing signs that he was not ok. He enailiated himself from others. Didn't talk much. Ploting. Normally these things people do not see as something seriouse. But didn't Itachi do the same things before he killed his family? I am sure he did. But nobody said anything because we as humans tend to sweep things under the rug. If we don't see it, it doesn't exist and it is not a problem. And that is what everybody was doing to Sasuke. Obviously Kakashi knew what happened to Sasuke and when he asked him what his dream was. And he was like "Obviouse..." . He could have stopped or at least slowed down the process of Sasuke leaving. Or when Itachi came to try and take Naruto. If Sasuke wouldn't talk about it, Naruto would have explained. And one of the adults could have spoken to him about what happened and that it wasn't his fault. It makes me very sad that Sasuke just put up the brave act of holding such a burrden. No child should deal with that. But there are still people who have gone through it. But some of them do not let those bad things get in the way with life. I think Selenai understands all that. A lot of that is actually what she was trying to say, I think, during this conversation xD; All she really meant was that Sasuke isn't 'emo' as you mentioned earlier, and that the emo stereotype is fine until people start taking it seriously. When they do, that's when people like she and I feel the need to point out what Sasuke has gone through, and that, under the circumstances, he actually isn't emo at all. He's... well... kind of traumatized, and his reactions are understandable. I don't think she necessarily needed you to tell her how bad Sasuke's circumstances are, because that's what she was actually trying to explain to you. She was just reacting to the emo comment from a few posts ago.
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:40 pm
I can understand the emo comment. I really should use better words than 'emo' though... And seeing as this is a seriouse conversaqtion. I really shouldn't have used word emo. Heheheh... My bad. I sometimes do that and tick people off unintentionally.
I guess alot of my conclusions I come too has been influenced by what I have gone through personally when, especially when it is situations that have similarities.
But I think we have discussed enough that Sasuke is not emo... He is just a tramatised kid who just made some very stupid mistakes as a teenager.
Me and a friend talked about what would happen if Sasuke ever returned to the village and he flat out stated that he was going to be exicuted for being a rogue nnja because that is the law. I personally don't think Tsunade and the Elders of the village are that stupid seeing that Sasuke pretty much is the only Uchiha left. If they were to kill him, the Sharigun will die out from the earth and a valuable tool would be lost from the village forever. Sasuke is of some value to the village and you do not destroy something of value because it was "acting up" or "acting out" in Sasuke's case. I am guessing that they would have a serious and long interigation of him, give him no athority at all, keep him on check, and all the fun out of village missions would be a no go for a few years. Pretty much a lock down. But would they really kill him even though he betrayed the village? Would they let him live simply because he has a blood line trait and has some power?
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:33 pm
Sai_Man_Secks I can understand the emo comment. I really should use better words than 'emo' though... And seeing as this is a seriouse conversaqtion. I really shouldn't have used word emo. Heheheh... My bad. I sometimes do that and tick people off unintentionally. I guess alot of my conclusions I come too has been influenced by what I have gone through personally when, especially when it is situations that have similarities. But I think we have discussed enough that Sasuke is not emo... He is just a tramatised kid who just made some very stupid mistakes as a teenager. Me and a friend talked about what would happen if Sasuke ever returned to the village and he flat out stated that he was going to be exicuted for being a rogue nnja because that is the law. I personally don't think Tsunade and the Elders of the village are that stupid seeing that Sasuke pretty much is the only Uchiha left. If they were to kill him, the Sharigun will die out from the earth and a valuable tool would be lost from the village forever. Sasuke is of some value to the village and you do not destroy something of value because it was "acting up" or "acting out" in Sasuke's case. I am guessing that they would have a serious and long interigation of him, give him no athority at all, keep him on check, and all the fun out of village missions would be a no go for a few years. Pretty much a lock down. But would they really kill him even though he betrayed the village? Would they let him live simply because he has a blood line trait and has some power? Before I respond, I should say, HUGE spoiler warning here, to some of the very latest chapters of Naruto. If you're not up to date, you may not want to read this. That aside, the issue with Sasuke possibly being executed as a rogue nin is something that always concerned me, as well, especially considering the fact that while Jiraiya and Tsunade are Konoha ninja, they spent a good deal of their time outside of Konoha, just wandering. While that doesn't qualify them as rogue ninja, in one of the latest chapters it is revealed that Jiraiya sort of abandoned his team during war time, and obviously he wasn't punished for it. Granted, he abandoned them in order to help some orphans, but he was gone for two or three years with no apparent contact with Konoha. I imagine that this was allowed simply for the fact that, as you said, like Sasuke, Jiraiya was a valuable asset to Konoha. Where another ninja might have been punished, he wasn't simply because he was so valuable. I think things might be the same way for Sasuke. Granted, joining an enemy is a bit more serious, but I think they'd take into account the fact that Sasuke doesn't seem to have killed anyone except for that enemy.
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:42 pm
Chieira Sai_Man_Secks I can understand the emo comment. I really should use better words than 'emo' though... And seeing as this is a seriouse conversaqtion. I really shouldn't have used word emo. Heheheh... My bad. I sometimes do that and tick people off unintentionally. I guess alot of my conclusions I come too has been influenced by what I have gone through personally when, especially when it is situations that have similarities. But I think we have discussed enough that Sasuke is not emo... He is just a tramatised kid who just made some very stupid mistakes as a teenager. Me and a friend talked about what would happen if Sasuke ever returned to the village and he flat out stated that he was going to be exicuted for being a rogue nnja because that is the law. I personally don't think Tsunade and the Elders of the village are that stupid seeing that Sasuke pretty much is the only Uchiha left. If they were to kill him, the Sharigun will die out from the earth and a valuable tool would be lost from the village forever. Sasuke is of some value to the village and you do not destroy something of value because it was "acting up" or "acting out" in Sasuke's case. I am guessing that they would have a serious and long interigation of him, give him no athority at all, keep him on check, and all the fun out of village missions would be a no go for a few years. Pretty much a lock down. But would they really kill him even though he betrayed the village? Would they let him live simply because he has a blood line trait and has some power? Before I respond, I should say, HUGE spoiler warning here, to some of the very latest chapters of Naruto. If you're not up to date, you may not want to read this. That aside, the issue with Sasuke possibly being executed as a rogue nin is something that always concerned me, as well, especially considering the fact that while Jiraiya and Tsunade are Konoha ninja, they spent a good deal of their time outside of Konoha, just wandering. While that doesn't qualify them as rogue ninja, in one of the latest chapters it is revealed that Jiraiya sort of abandoned his team during war time, and obviously he wasn't punished for it. Granted, he abandoned them in order to help some orphans, but he was gone for two or three years with no apparent contact with Konoha. I imagine that this was allowed simply for the fact that, as you said, like Sasuke, Jiraiya was a valuable asset to Konoha. Where another ninja might have been punished, he wasn't simply because he was so valuable. I think things might be the same way for Sasuke. Granted, joining an enemy is a bit more serious, but I think they'd take into account the fact that Sasuke doesn't seem to have killed anyone except for that enemy. I was unawear of that spoiler. But, I really do not mind spoilers in discussion topics because they are bound to appear sooner or later. But yeah, That has been on the back of my head lately. I mean, evn fanfiction is discussing that topic a litle. Some have it where Sasuke will be banished, others have it were he will be exicuted, and some have it more where he will be on lock down for a good long while. And the rest is like WTF, what the hell are they talking about? Now, do I think something like that will happen? Yes. I personally think that his case would be seriouse. One because his family obviously had some sort of political power in the village and politcs tend to make people become public. So for the public, they will paint aq pretty little picture of showing that they are not going to stand for his actions, but on the inside they will in some sence give him some lenancy because he and did those acts when he is valuable to the village. But if Sasuke was not the only Uchiha that survived, obviously he would have been exicuted or exciled for his betrayl to the village and they would still have the Sharingun. I really chose not to discusse Kakashi since that would really be extra information that is simply not needed.
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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:21 pm
while your points are very true. i still will remain as a SasuNaru fan, not the other way around. i still think this way because of the noise level coming out of both of them, while Naruto is the typical 12-year-old boy and Sasuke had truama in his life causing him to change his view on life, Naruto is very whiney, somewhat like a girl sort of whiney[have you ever seen those sterotypical girls who get al whiney when they dont get there way? -_-; thats what im reffering to.] while Sasuke is almost equally whiney, he mostly keeps it inside. so when something pisses Sasuke off he walks away, sort of like aguy who doenst care, meanwhile if Narto gets pissed he goes balstic like a girl, trying to prove other wise. then you have the power part, Sasuke has power know what he's doing [for the most part] while Naruto's power's are getting there he fumbles alot much like Sakura, Ino, and Hinata.[not saying they arent strong just they fumble with there strengths.and this is pre time-skip. Sakura gets alotof powerin the Shippuuden and she knows how to use it.]Sakura, Ino, and Hinata fumble alot much like Naruto thinking they have much more power[or in Hinata's case alot less power] than they really do. so Naruto is constantly winging it n matches. SAsuke seems to have ahandle on his power and ablities and doesnt have a problem using themat the right moment.
and while the fan drawings of Naruto having flatten hair, are cute, you are correct they dont sho off the fact that Naruto is more masculine than they show. but here's another thing, Naruto created the Sexy Jutsu, a female character, so Naruto is more femine than you think,peverted in his femine side but still, a femalish character. =3
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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:14 pm
Akatsuki Member Hoshiko while your points are very true. i still will remain as a SasuNaru fan, not the other way around. i still think this way because of the noise level coming out of both of them, while Naruto is the typical 12-year-old boy and Sasuke had truama in his life causing him to change his view on life, Naruto is very whiney, somewhat like a girl sort of whiney[have you ever seen those sterotypical girls who get al whiney when they dont get there way? -_-; thats what im reffering to.] while Sasuke is almost equally whiney, he mostly keeps it inside. so when something pisses Sasuke off he walks away, sort of like aguy who doenst care, meanwhile if Narto gets pissed he goes balstic like a girl, trying to prove other wise. then you have the power part, Sasuke has power know what he's doing [for the most part] while Naruto's power's are getting there he fumbles alot much like Sakura, Ino, and Hinata.[not saying they arent strong just they fumble with there strengths.and this is pre time-skip. Sakura gets alotof powerin the Shippuuden and she knows how to use it.]Sakura, Ino, and Hinata fumble alot much like Naruto thinking they have much more power[or in Hinata's case alot less power] than they really do. so Naruto is constantly winging it n matches. SAsuke seems to have ahandle on his power and ablities and doesnt have a problem using themat the right moment. and while the fan drawings of Naruto having flatten hair, are cute, you are correct they dont sho off the fact that Naruto is more masculine than they show. but here's another thing, Naruto created the Sexy Jutsu, a female character, so Naruto is more femine than you think,peverted in his femine side but still, a femalish character. =3 Ok, on the entire steriotype thing, then we may as well say that Sasuke holds grugdes like an angry woman. Girls mature faster than most boys so guys are going to be more blunt about their feelings the way Naruto is. We have already mentionsed that Sasuke is more mature than Naruto, but when it omes to emotional statuse, Naruto has developed far more. It is true that Naruto wil never truely understand how it feels to lose family since Naruto really did not get the chance to know his own. But I see this, Sasuke got to atleast know his family, even if it was for a short time and they were consumed with their praises of Itachi. He still got to spend some sort of quality time with them. Naruto doesn't even have the luxury of having ill-feelings towards family seeing as he has none. This is a perfect example of "It is better to have loved than to have never loved at all." Sasuke has the building blocks of living a good life, it's just all up to him on whether he uses them correctly or uses them at all.
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Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:21 am
Akatsuki Member Hoshiko while your points are very true. i still will remain as a SasuNaru fan, not the other way around. i still think this way because of the noise level coming out of both of them, while Naruto is the typical 12-year-old boy and Sasuke had truama in his life causing him to change his view on life, Naruto is very whiney, somewhat like a girl sort of whiney[have you ever seen those sterotypical girls who get al whiney when they dont get there way? -_-; thats what im reffering to.] while Sasuke is almost equally whiney, he mostly keeps it inside. so when something pisses Sasuke off he walks away, sort of like aguy who doenst care, meanwhile if Narto gets pissed he goes balstic like a girl, trying to prove other wise. then you have the power part, Sasuke has power know what he's doing [for the most part] while Naruto's power's are getting there he fumbles alot much like Sakura, Ino, and Hinata.[not saying they arent strong just they fumble with there strengths.and this is pre time-skip. Sakura gets alotof powerin the Shippuuden and she knows how to use it.]Sakura, Ino, and Hinata fumble alot much like Naruto thinking they have much more power[or in Hinata's case alot less power] than they really do. so Naruto is constantly winging it n matches. SAsuke seems to have ahandle on his power and ablities and doesnt have a problem using themat the right moment. and while the fan drawings of Naruto having flatten hair, are cute, you are correct they dont sho off the fact that Naruto is more masculine than they show. but here's another thing, Naruto created the Sexy Jutsu, a female character, so Naruto is more femine than you think,peverted in his femine side but still, a femalish character. =3 Actually, let's start with the sexy no jutsu, because that's a misconception that annoys me more than most others xD; I should have put that in the essay itself, but it completely slipped my mind. The sexy no jutsu does not make Naruto feminine anymore than doing the male/male version of the jutsu to impress Sakura made Konohamaru gay. It makes Naruto smart, and it makes him perverted. It is in no way feminine, it is actually very masculine to know what sort of woman other men will like. Again, if you were going along that train of thought, you'd also have to assume that because Konohamaru did the SasuSai version, that he's gay. But Konohamaru at least at one time had a thing for Moegi. So no, the sexy no jutsu does not make Naruto feminine in any way. It makes him a smart guy who knows what kind of woman he and other guys would like to see naked ^^; The whining thing? You would be right, except that you're looking at twelve-year-old Naruto. Notice that older Naruto stops a lot of that, after the timeskip? In assuming that it's a feminine thing to do, you're keeping in mind older boys/men, and not taking into account that the Naruto you're talking about is twelve. I have three little brothers, trust me, twelve-year-old boys are very whiney. It doesn't make them girly, it just makes them annoying. As for Naruto's power, I don't really see how the way he fights makes him girly. He's actually very boyish in his fighting style, as well, in that he just throws himself into a fight with no real regard for what he's doing. Sakura, Ino, and Hinata aren't like that, they just lack the brute strength (before the timeskip) that the male characters have. Naruto is in no way lacking in brute strength (can we say Kyuubi? - he's probably one of the most overall powerful characters in the series), just in tactical skills. Sakura is actually a very tactical fighter, so there's not really any similarity between their fighting styles. Sooo... while you can continue to believe that Naruto is girly if you want to, you're going to have to provide some better proof in order to convince me. xD Thanks for trying, though, you're one of the first people who has bothered and I was really looking forward to more discussion with people.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:51 am
sasunaru just sounds better.sasunaru rolls off the tongue.narusasu,well it kind of sounds weird.i would stay with sasunaru.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:33 pm
sasunaru-22 sasunaru just sounds better.sasunaru rolls off the tongue.narusasu,well it kind of sounds weird.i would stay with sasunaru. ...You're saying... you think the pairing is better because you like the way it sounds when you say it better? xD; Come on, now. If you're going to post here, please give us some serious discussion. Selenai and I put a lot of work into that essay.
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:13 pm
I have heard many people say that Sasuke is uke 'cause his name ends in "uke" *rolls eyes* if you have even a basic knowleadge of Japanese, you will find out that the "yaoi" term uke has nothing to do with Sasuke.
Anyway, I think Sasuke is seme because: he is the silent, dark type, and he likes to take control of everything. If you follow the anime and manga, you will know what I mean. Naruto also likes to have control, but he loves Sasuke and is always worried about him, and I think he would gladly let Sasuke control the situation (giving him hell for it from time to time!) ^w^
And now I will speak from my point of view; please mind the fact that I do not watch the anime, I only read the manga (I hate the anime 'cause they make Naruto look like a dumb fool)
Although it is true that at the beginning of the manga Naruto is very "boyish", in the latest manga chapters he has shown a more warm side of himself, almost to the point of crying... and it was when he was speaking of Sasuke! ^-^
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:49 pm
Blue Aether I have heard many people say that Sasuke is uke 'cause his name ends in "uke" *rolls eyes* if you have even a basic knowleadge of Japanese, you will find out that the "yaoi" term uke has nothing to do with Sasuke.
Anyway, I think Sasuke is seme because: he is the silent, dark type, and he likes to take control of everything. If you follow the anime and manga, you will know what I mean. Naruto also likes to have control, but he loves Sasuke and is always worried about him, and I think he would gladly let Sasuke control the situation (giving him hell for it from time to time!) ^w^
And now I will speak from my point of view; please mind the fact that I do not watch the anime, I only read the manga (I hate the anime 'cause they make Naruto look like a dumb fool)
Although it is true that at the beginning of the manga Naruto is very "boyish", in the latest manga chapters he has shown a more warm side of himself, almost to the point of crying... and it was when he was speaking of Sasuke! ^-^
Can you elaberaite on you reasoning for Sasuke being seme?
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:53 pm
Blue Aether I have heard many people say that Sasuke is uke 'cause his name ends in "uke" *rolls eyes* if you have even a basic knowleadge of Japanese, you will find out that the "yaoi" term uke has nothing to do with Sasuke.
Anyway, I think Sasuke is seme because: he is the silent, dark type, and he likes to take control of everything. If you follow the anime and manga, you will know what I mean. Naruto also likes to have control, but he loves Sasuke and is always worried about him, and I think he would gladly let Sasuke control the situation (giving him hell for it from time to time!) ^w^
And now I will speak from my point of view; please mind the fact that I do not watch the anime, I only read the manga (I hate the anime 'cause they make Naruto look like a dumb fool)
Although it is true that at the beginning of the manga Naruto is very "boyish", in the latest manga chapters he has shown a more warm side of himself, almost to the point of crying... and it was when he was speaking of Sasuke! ^-^
I didn't bring up the SasUKE thing in the essay because, while it might be amusing to joke about, like the 'SasuNaru sounding better than NaruSasu' thing that someone else mentioned, it has no place in a serious discussion. It would only hurt my argument to use pointless things like that. Which is why I kept what little joking I did use to the "Just For Fun" section, to emphasize the point that none of that was honestly a part of my argument for NaruSasu. I can't really respond to what you said in the second paragraph, because Selenai and I already basically refuted that in the essay. If you want to look over it again, feel free, I don't really have the energy to go over all of it again at the moment xD; *writing a paper for class* As for the rest, I don't think Naruto has shown a more 'warm' side of himself at all. He was always very empathetic, if you'll remember things like the Zabuza and Haku arc, as well as the way he got so upset about the treatment of Neji and other Hyuugas by the main branch. Those are only two examples, but I'm fairly sure there are other times as well. Naruto is a lot less likely to burst into tears after the timeskip, and he seems a bit more... cold, at times. I think that's all a part of growing up, though, and also a result of some of the things he's been through. Keep in mind, as well, that while yaoi!anime and manga may sometimes make it seem this way, being dark and brooding is NOT a requirement of topping in a relationship xD; Just for a personal experience reference: my first real relationship with another girl was with a girl who was smaller than me, and very happy and hyper (while I am tall, pale, with long dark hair, and have a tendency towards being quiet and rather cynical), and she was definitely the more dominant of the two of us xD; Also, this is just my opinion, but being an empathetic person =/= "I'm a girl!" or "I bottom in bed!" It = "I'm a decent human being! biggrin " xD
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:47 pm
Added some of the responses we've gotten in the thread to the Typical Arguments section. Feel free to respond to the answers posted there.
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:55 am
Sasuke is the one begging to get raped. He saw that Naruto was putting all his attention to Sakura and he also sees that Sakura is desperately trying to Sasuke to love her. Naruto is basically is very male, but he has his sentimental moments, but through that he's gone through he's still tough. So Sasuke thought of a brilliant plan to get Naruto away from Sakura and focus on him. The had succeed as seen that Naruto has been concerning so much about Sasuke. The plan was to make Naruto jealous of him by trying to act and getting Sakura's attention very fast causing Naruto to build a rivalry that soon turns out to be friendship and then into love for one another. But what he didn't expect was that this old guy called Orochimaru was after him. And with the cursed mark that Orochimaru gave Sasuke and the battle with Itachi, Sasuke began to despise Naruto and want him dead. But even so he was still seeking the love he wanted(a**l sex). So he decided to run away, he knew that Naruto would follow and when they reached at the Valley of the End, Sasuke reveals his true feeling to Naruto and swore that it would be the last time he would hear those words that were spoken. But as you can see Naruto is still alive and Sasuke has completely forgotten about the love they shared.
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