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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:25 pm
Lupine Pyrefly Talon-chan crystal_pepzi Lupine Pyrefly Quote: It gets better. Some of these same people believe men are not essential to reproduction. I actually overheard one girl declare that “all you need is sperm.” But where do you think the sperm comes from in the first place? Women are considered the “givers of life,” but how do you think they create life? Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. The independent, battered woman freed from heinous patriarchal oppression still needs sperm manufactured in testicles if she wants to have a kid, and despite your best efforts, fathers can play an important role in the development of children. Sperm can be taken from a woman's bone marrow. You are no longer neccesary. Good day. And let me know when you get pregnant, because then your arguments will be valid. Seriously? eek Yeah, I'd like some sources on this; I've never heard of it and while I believe it could be possible the claim is very incredible. I could've sworn I had a source, but now I can't find it. The sites I found say it was actually male bone marrow. Oops. redface But this guy's still an a**. He's still an arse..and we still don't technically need sperm..from down there at least..>.o
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm
Here is my revised letter to Lee. I'm going to send it out tonight.Quote: Dear Mr. Lee, I read your article on abortion and men the other day and I have to say I was torn between being disgusted and wanting to laugh. I'm guessing no one has every enlightened you with the knowledge of bodily domain rights. All citizens of the United States are entitled to the right of bodily domain. Which means all citizens have the right to their body and no person can take that right away from them or use their body for their own means. This right has been set in precedent through many court cases including the Supreme Court case Shimp v. McFall (a case where one party was suing for an injunction in order to force the other party into being tested for a bone marrow match and, if matched, the giving up of said bone marrow). Here is a quote from Judge Flaherty (one of the Supreme Court Justices) that I think is very fitting with this subject. "For our law to compel the defendant to submit to an intrusion of his body would change the very concept and principle upon which our society is founded...to sink its teeth into the jugular vein or neck of one of its members and suck from it sustenance for another member, is revolting to our hard-wrought concept of jurisprudence." Why I think this fits in is because it shows no person can legally force another to use their body in a way they do not want no matter what is on the line for the forcer. No man has the right to tell a woman how to use her body. Just like no woman can tell a man what to do with his. It isn't just women who have the ability to make the decision of whether a couple has offspring or not. A man can have a vasectomy to make himself sterile. He does not need his partner's approval for this even if she someday wants children. She may not be pregnant yet, but this case would definitely effect the potential of having children and effect them both just like a woman having an abortion would. Just as it is a woman's choice to abort, it is a man's decision to have himself sterilized and any woman who wants to become a mother by him can do anything to stop him. It isn't sexism to want to protect one's bodily domain. A woman being able to decide what happens to her body is equal rights. Now I think, to put it in simple terms, it pretty much sucks when there is a situation where one party wants to be a parent and the other does not (women aren't the only ones who want a pregnancy to end. Some men try to force their partner to abort a pregnancy because they don't want to be a parent). The only way to stop these situations from arising is for both parties to talk about their feelings on pregnancy at that time in their lives and what each party would want to happen and then take the necessary precautions. The way I see it, if a man wants to be a father he needs to find a woman who is ready to be a mother. Just like a woman who wants to be a mother needs to find a man who is ready to be a father. To force parenthood, pregnancy, or the mix of the two on anyone is not fair to either party and a gross violation of rights. About the women who think men aren't essential to reproduction, to some extent they are right. Men give sperm the rest happens in the woman's womb. The woman's nutrients are used; her body is what the fetus uses to develop. A man has no part in this. An essential bit is given by a man in reproduction but he in himself is not essential to the big picture of reproduction. For the most part, all is given by the woman, but I do not think this makes a man's opinion null and void in what should happen to the pregnancy. All men should be able to have their opinion made known to their partner, but that is all. As I have said before, no person can legally force another to use their body in a way they do not want it used. I hope this has given you something to think about. Sincerely, Ms. Tiffany Kraus http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras2777/judpol/mcfall.html
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:06 pm
Clearly this person does not understand that can't both have a choice at once. If you give men the right to choose whether or not a woman aborts, then you're basically giving them her right to BD. Anyone with half a brain knows that YOUR right to BD does NOT belong in the hands of someone else. Your rights end at MY body. I don't care if it's half yours! If I break into your house to retrieve something of mine, it's still breaking and entering!
The idea that men should have an absolute choice (meaning, what he says goes) when it comes to abortion is misogynistic and dehumanizes women. Piss, moan and cry all you want; reproduction is not equal, and you won't make it that way. Yes, I think that his opinion should be heard, valued, and fully considered. However, he is NOT entitled to her right to BD.
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:41 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:03 pm
I'm going to have to say that I am really surprised by the response I got from the author of the article. It's below for ya'll to read. It is a much different tone than the article. And I have say I now have some respect for the guy. I think he fell into the trap that gets many Pro-Lifers and Pro-Choicers alike. Instead of writing from logic he wrote from emotion. That was one of the reasons I waited a day before starting the e-mail to him and posted it here before sending it. Mr. Lee on the other time wrote from emotion which I see far too many doing especially the Pro-Life side. Which isn't surprising since they only have emotion (coming down to the roots of it) backing their stance.Quote: Hi Tiffany, I am glad to see a calm, logical response. Considering the fanatics who have gone off, it is refreshing to see someone actually put some thought into their article. That being said, let me address this: "No man has the right to tell a woman how to use her body. Just like no woman can tell a man what to do with his." Look, the point of the column was a few things. a) The rhetoric is a bit sexist. b) The belief--that men, despite their contribution of sperm are in no way essential--are not needed, I feel that it is a bit sexist. and c) Men can play an important role in the development of children, something many seem to ignore. I in no way advocate the oppression of women. I simply say that men deserve a part too. I mean, is it not enough to have equal rights? Some people need to feel above too. But, it is ridiculous. I feel that many have blown my column way out of proportion, but since your email was intelligent, I have chosen to respond to it. And my point about men being essential--they provide the sperm. Bottom line. They do. Nutrients, womb, etc...but the men provide the sperm. I used it in a way to demonstrate that men do play a role, so perhaps they are worth consideration instead of being cast off as some evil oppressors who wish to use and abuse every woman. Anyways, I appreciate the good email. Take care. - Travis And by the way, this line: "The way I see it, if a man wants to be a father he needs to find a woman who is ready to be a mother" It is very good. It hits right at the correct point.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:51 am
I once dated a guy who thought the "baby" just went from the man into the woman's womb. I asked if he'd ever taken biology in school. He hadn't rolleyes
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:10 pm
Freedom Fire I once dated a guy who thought the "baby" just went from the man into the woman's womb. I asked if he'd ever taken biology in school. He hadn't rolleyes Are you sure he wasn't joking or something? It's hard to believe that a person can be that clueless.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:39 pm
RedRoseSpiral Freedom Fire I once dated a guy who thought the "baby" just went from the man into the woman's womb. I asked if he'd ever taken biology in school. He hadn't rolleyes Are you sure he wasn't joking or something? It's hard to believe that a person can be that clueless.Was he? I don't think my mind can wrap itself around something like that if it were true. He's a notch away from believing the "Babies come from storks" story.
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