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 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:49 pm
Rainbow_Flavoured_Pocky fluffysteel2 O_O do you realize that you just disprooved the christian religeon, along with several others??? Was that supposed to be like... a bad... thing/warningish thing? This may seem like I'm coming off as a self rightious b*****d, but it's really about personal beliefs... not at all friend. i had to completely think this one through though, and i went to a church to conferm it (the reverend guy got pretty mad on sunday sweatdrop ) ok, if god exists like in christianity and catholicolism(catholic) then god is all knowing, all powerful, basicly can do anything right? well, consider this; if god is all knowing(as in he knows all that was, will be, and is(how the reverend put it)) then everything is predetermined. if everything is predetermined, then it isnt our fault that your fault that you sin because you were destined to do it; thus concludeing that if you follow the catholic religeon, one of two things. 1) there is no xian/christian based hell. 2) the entire christian religeon is wrong and false. also, to obscurus: surprised i was wondering somethign simular to that! lol
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:53 pm
fluffysteel2 Rainbow_Flavoured_Pocky fluffysteel2 O_O do you realize that you just disprooved the christian religeon, along with several others??? Was that supposed to be like... a bad... thing/warningish thing? This may seem like I'm coming off as a self rightious b*****d, but it's really about personal beliefs... not at all friend. i had to completely think this one through though, and i went to a church to conferm it (the reverend guy got pretty mad on sunday sweatdrop ) ok, if god exists like in christianity and catholicolism(catholic) then god is all knowing, all powerful, basicly can do anything right? well, consider this; if god is all knowing(as in he knows all that was, will be, and is(how the reverend put it)) then everything is predetermined. if everything is predetermined, then it isnt our fault that your fault that you sin because you were destined to do it; thus concludeing that if you follow the catholic religeon, one of two things. 1) there is no xian/christian based hell. 2) the entire christian religeon is wrong and false. eek
3) God really didn't love you and decided to ensure that you burn in Hell after sinning your entire life away. xd
..Damn, I can be such a b***h sometimes. ^^;;
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:22 pm
fluffysteel2 Rainbow_Flavoured_Pocky fluffysteel2 O_O do you realize that you just disprooved the christian religeon, along with several others??? Was that supposed to be like... a bad... thing/warningish thing? This may seem like I'm coming off as a self rightious b*****d, but it's really about personal beliefs... not at all friend. i had to completely think this one through though, and i went to a church to conferm it (the reverend guy got pretty mad on sunday sweatdrop ) ok, if god exists like in christianity and catholicolism(catholic) then god is all knowing, all powerful, basicly can do anything right? well, consider this; if god is all knowing(as in he knows all that was, will be, and is(how the reverend put it)) then everything is predetermined. if everything is predetermined, then it isnt our fault that your fault that you sin because you were destined to do it; thus concludeing that if you follow the catholic religeon, one of two things. 1) there is no xian/christian based hell. 2) the entire christian religeon is wrong and false. also, to obscurus:  i was wondering somethign simular to that! lol You won't have eyes tonight. You won't have ears or a tongue; you will wander the underworld blind, deaf and dumb... this applies not only to the christian god, but to any god that is omnipotent and omniscient ...and all the dead will know: this is Hector, fool who thought he killed Achilles.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:26 pm
Or God, or any deity, may be all knowing and all powerful. Just because there is omniscience and omnipotence, does not mean omni-interference.
It is a possibility, that can't be ignored, that things are not all planned out. Maybe some things are, but others aren't. A very loose plan, made to adjust to the present situation. Every action that causes the plan(s) to be altered would then have a divine meaning. Any action that furthered a plan would then also be divine. The first would cause the second to be necessary, and so both hold a meaning.
This is me trying to tie free-will and causality together. lawl.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:32 pm
Khalida Nyoka Or God, or any deity, may be all knowing and all powerful. Just because there is omniscience and omnipotence, does not mean omni-interference. It is a possibility, that can't be ignored, that things are not all planned out. Maybe some things are, but others aren't. A very loose plan, made to adjust to the present situation. Every action that causes the plan(s) to be altered would then have a divine meaning. Any action that furthered a plan would then also be divine. The first would cause the second to be necessary, and so both hold a meaning. This is me trying to tie free-will and causality together. lawl. You won't have eyes tonight. You won't have ears or a tongue; you will wander the underworld blind, deaf and dumb... Interference is not necessary. The mere existence of omnipotence and omniscience in the same being is logically contradictory. It doesn't matter what the being does, what matters is that he's able to do something that he shouldn't be able to do. ...and all the dead will know: this is Hector, fool who thought he killed Achilles.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:29 am
the wizzards ninth rule: a contradiction cannot exist.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:03 am
fluffysteel2 the wizzards ninth rule: a contradiction cannot exist. You won't have eyes tonight. You won't have ears or a tongue; you will wander the underworld blind, deaf and dumb... I prefer this version:
"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." -Francisco d'Anconia ...and all the dead will know: this is Hector, fool who thought he killed Achilles.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:40 pm
fluffysteel2 the wizzards ninth rule: a contradiction cannot exist. Wizard's Ninth Rule: A contradiction cannot exist in reality, not in part or in whole.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:49 pm
LoBo_23 fluffysteel2 the wizzards ninth rule: a contradiction cannot exist. Wizard's Ninth Rule: A contradiction cannot exist in reality, not in part or in whole. Sam's First Rule: Everything in fiction is normally a complete lie. Sam's rule contradicts the wizard's rules, thus; Sam's rule does not exist. mrgreen I think the following rules are the ones christianity is using and or breaking. Wizard's First Rule: "People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
Third Rule: Passion rules reason, for better or for worse.
Explanation: Letting your emotions control your reason may cause trouble for yourself and those around you.
Wizard's Sixth Rule: The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason.
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "The Sixth Rule is the hub upon which all rules turn. It is not only the most important rule, but the simplest. Nonetheless, it is the one most often ignored and violated, and by far the most despised. It must be wielded in spite of the ceaseless, howling protests of the wicked. Misery, iniquity, and utter destruction lurk in the shadows outside its full light, where half-truths snare the faithful disciples, the deeply feeling believers, the selfless followers. Faith and feelings are the warm marrow of evil. Unlike reason, faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusion, any whim. They are a virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched. Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason’s light. Reason is the very substance of truth itself. The glory that is life is wholly embraced through reason, through this rule. In rejecting it, in rejecting reason, one embraces death."
Wizard's Seventh Rule: Life is the future, not the past.
Explanation by Richard Rahl: "The past can teach us, through experience, how to accomplish things in the future, comfort us with cherished memories, and provide the foundation of what has already been accomplished. But only the future holds life. To live in the past is to embrace what is dead. To live life to its fullest, each day must be created anew. As rational, thinking beings we must use our intellect, not a blind devotion to what has come before, to make rational choices."
Wizard's Ninth Rule: A contradiction cannot exist in reality. Not in part, nor in whole.
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "To believe in a contradiction is to abdicate your belief in the existence of the world around you and the nature of the things in it, to instead embrace any random impulse that strikes your fancy--to imagine something is real simply because you wish it were. A thing is what it is, it is itself. There can be no contradictions. In reality, contradictions cannot exist. To believe in them you must abandon the most important thing you possess: your rational mind. The wager for such a bargain is your life. In such an exchange, you always lose what you have at stake."
Wizard's Tenth Rule: Willfully turning aside from truth is treason to one's self.
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People who for whatever reason don't want to see the truth can be acutely hostile to it and shrill in their denunciation of it. They frequently turn their venomous antagonism on whoever dares to point out that truth ... To those seeking the truth, it's a matter of simple, rational, self interest to always keep reality in view. Truth is rooted in reality, after all, not the imagination."
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:16 pm
What about the second rule? You forgot to mention the Second Rule! "The greatest harm can result from the best intentions." Baron von Turkeypants Khalida Nyoka Or God, or any deity, may be all knowing and all powerful. Just because there is omniscience and omnipotence, does not mean omni-interference. It is a possibility, that can't be ignored, that things are not all planned out. Maybe some things are, but others aren't. A very loose plan, made to adjust to the present situation. Every action that causes the plan(s) to be altered would then have a divine meaning. Any action that furthered a plan would then also be divine. The first would cause the second to be necessary, and so both hold a meaning. This is me trying to tie free-will and causality together. lawl. You won't have eyes tonight. You won't have ears or a tongue; you will wander the underworld blind, deaf and dumb... Interference is not necessary. The mere existence of omnipotence and omniscience in the same being is logically contradictory. It doesn't matter what the being does, what matters is that he's able to do something that he shouldn't be able to do. ...and all the dead will know: this is Hector, fool who thought he killed Achilles. I'll accept that as a strike against the NT deity. What about the OT? I'm not familiar enough with hebrew texts to know whether or not they really believe in free will (not familiar with the NT either... meaning to read both but I never quite get to it). I can say with some measure of certainty that Islam does not accept free will (in any conventional sense, at least). In which case, Allah is not refuted by the previous arguments.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:39 pm
Khalida Nyoka What about the second rule? You forgot to mention the Second Rule! "The greatest harm can result from the best intentions." Baron von Turkeypants Khalida Nyoka Or God, or any deity, may be all knowing and all powerful. Just because there is omniscience and omnipotence, does not mean omni-interference. It is a possibility, that can't be ignored, that things are not all planned out. Maybe some things are, but others aren't. A very loose plan, made to adjust to the present situation. Every action that causes the plan(s) to be altered would then have a divine meaning. Any action that furthered a plan would then also be divine. The first would cause the second to be necessary, and so both hold a meaning. This is me trying to tie free-will and causality together. lawl. You won't have eyes tonight. You won't have ears or a tongue; you will wander the underworld blind, deaf and dumb... Interference is not necessary. The mere existence of omnipotence and omniscience in the same being is logically contradictory. It doesn't matter what the being does, what matters is that he's able to do something that he shouldn't be able to do. ...and all the dead will know: this is Hector, fool who thought he killed Achilles. I'll accept that as a strike against the NT deity. What about the OT? I'm not familiar enough with hebrew texts to know whether or not they really believe in free will (not familiar with the NT either... meaning to read both but I never quite get to it). I can say with some measure of certainty that Islam does not accept free will (in any conventional sense, at least). In which case, Allah is not refuted by the previous arguments. If the OT god exists, he's a real douche.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:42 pm
Pageantry Or that
3) God really didn't love you and decided to ensure that you burn in Hell after sinning your entire life away. xd
..Damn, I can be such a b***h sometimes. ^^;; It's not just you, my mind went right there too eek Thus the flaw is revealed. Absolute predestination cannot exist in the same context as a all loving, omnipotent, omniscient deity. In order to answer this question shouldn't we wonder what's the point of us being here in the first place? As chess pieces moved by some greater hand or are we both the piece and the hand? Are we god?
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:01 pm
Oooooooooooor there is no god!
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:17 pm
Andiela Pageantry Or that
3) God really didn't love you and decided to ensure that you burn in Hell after sinning your entire life away. xd
..Damn, I can be such a b***h sometimes. ^^;; It's not just you, my mind went right there too eek Thus the flaw is revealed. Absolute predestination cannot exist in the same context as a all loving, omnipotent, omniscient deity. In order to answer this question shouldn't we wonder what's the point of us being here in the first place? As chess pieces moved by some greater hand or are we both the piece and the hand? Are we god? now thats a question. maby we are all self worshiped beings. maby we are gods who worship ourselfs above all others. afterall, we do what pleases us and only go against our wishes in rare occasion. id like to think wether we are or arent our own gods, or if god exists, im in controle no matter what. if i decided to go in school tomorrow and kill everyone for no apparent reason, why would this predestined idea come about? why would the cristian god allow me(espesialy becuase im the worst kinda sinner in teh bible O_O spiritual satanist O_O) to end the lives of those who followed his religeon? what purpose would it serve? if anythign it would proove free will exists. in any case, i agree with baron von spiderman, OT god would be a real douche.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:43 pm
ahahah von spiderman good one
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