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.[.pink.spider.].

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:42 pm


Yup I just asked FFG about this ying yang thing and she gave the link to her paragraph! ^__^
But no offense what I mean is that wouldn't square mention this ying yang symbolism if it was supposed to be there? People say Cleriths over anaylze! xD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:07 pm


I suppose if you believe Square spoon-feeds us everything.

It's no better than *possible spoiler below*

Quote:
So the red ribbon in Aerith's hair may indeed represent that there is a spiritual bond of love between Cloud and Aerith?


So apparently the ribbon, which Zack gave to Aeris as a gift, is proof that Cloud is in love with Aeris. Trust me, both sides over read every little exchange Cloud makes. It's just choosing what symbolism you choose to believe or not.

Truthiness3x4
Vice Captain

Silent-Dreamer025

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:16 pm


well luckily for us Square-enix has been pawning that whole "essay" with its tenth anniversary items, its new reunion files and before I forget Crisis Core pawnd her the most

User Image
take this for word
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:35 pm


Yin and Yang? eek I've never realized that! Though I must agree with Pink that it sounds a little far-fetched, but the idea is also nice. When I saw the scene, I got the impression that Cloud's guilt lies in not being able to protect Tifa as well, hence the wolf. Aeris' presence was there, but the fact that she healed them both, like, watching over them does have foreshadow, but I can't say whether that's a point to Cleris. sweatdrop

Oh yeah, actually, the song "Water" when Tifa and Cloud are unconscious, they say it's actually a mix between Aeris and Tifa's theme. I don't remember the source, I'll have to look it up.

Twindream
Crew


Sara Hysaro

Precious Seeker

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:54 pm


I always wondered about the wolf. When I first watched AC I saw the wolf and was like, "What's with the wolf? That's so random!" xd

Well, maybe not exactly, but in essence that's what I thought.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:20 pm


Sara Hysaro
I always wondered about the wolf. When I first watched AC I saw the wolf and was like, "What's with the wolf? That's so random!" xd

Well, maybe not exactly, but in essence that's what I thought.


Yeah, when I first watched AC, I thought the wolf was random too. Not until I re-watched it did I notice the significance of the wolf, such as the location of it and its connection to Cloud....like the Cloudy Wolf ring, armor thing, and earring.

Twindream
Crew


Sara Hysaro

Precious Seeker

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:18 pm


I'm gonna have to watch the movie again. I miss most of the symbolism involved because when I watch a movie I watch the movie and I don't notice the minute yet important details within it. xd
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:22 pm


Ooh, when you rewatch it, check out some tiny details. 3nodding Like....the Loveless allusion and a slight glimpse of the original game cover. xd It's hard to spot, but train your eyes!

Twindream
Crew


Sara Hysaro

Precious Seeker

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:40 pm


I remember seeing the Loveless poster in the original game. I wanted to see the actual play, even though Cid spoils the ending. xd
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:06 pm


Yeah! I don't really think that the Loveless play really had any significance in anything. Even though Cid tells Cloud about it, he's vague.

Twindream
Crew


Bereave Of Steve Burnside

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:13 pm


Twindream
Oh no...not THIS site. That place is full of crap. rolleyes Okay, that was harsh, but I really don't like this site.

Quote:


Hypothesis: Cloud Does Not Love Tifa

by Perceivence



Hypothesis: Cloud does not love Tifa.

Evidence: There is a great deal of evidence. However, the main focus of this essay is evidence found in one speech that Cloud makes on board the Highwind.

Focus
The focus is on the scene where Cloud gives a speech on board the Highwind right before the Last Night Under the Highwind scene. Its requirement of context from around the game is minimal, since it's based on a truth of reality: a logical result of a situation. Basically, I will be arguing that in a certain situation, Cloud has two options that may either show that he may love Tifa, or that he does not.

Truths and Axioms
1. At the scene in question, Cloud does not care about the future of the Planet. Its safety is merely a side result of his real reasons, and he is apathetic about that result. Cloud says so in his speech on board the Highwind:

Cloud "What are we all fighting for?"

Cloud "I want us all to understand that."
Cloud "Save the planet... for the future of the planet..."

Cloud "Sure, that's all fine."
Cloud "But really, is that really how it is?"
(He takes a few steps forward)
Cloud "For me, this is a personal feud."
Cloud "I want to beat Sephiroth. And settle my past."
Cloud "Saving the planet just happens to be a part of that."

Cloud rhetorically asks the group whether or not they're fighting to save the Planet. Cloud answers with a clearly implied no for himself. Cloud's reason for fighting is not to save the planet, but to resolve a personal feud, beat Sephiroth, and settle his past. Saving the planet just happens to be part of that.

Bearing this fact in mind, all other reference to saving the Planet as a reason must be considered in relation to this. Cloud explicitly states here that saving the Planet isn't really his reason; it just happens to be a result of his real reason. Therefore, all other places where he says he's fighting to save the Planet must be in reference to it being a result of the real reason. Otherwise, Cloud would be contradicting himself.

2. Tifa, the person whom he may love, will be directly affected by the outcome of the fight. Since Tifa's future is heavily dependent on the Planet's future, then a Planet without a future makes a Tifa without a future. Tifa lives on the Planet and cannot live without the Planet. Tifa's future depends on her life, therefore, her future depends on the Planet.

3. A love for someone requires a real concern for that person, and for his/her well-being. This truth is self-evident. Love can be described as a very strong concern for the well-being of someone else. Romantic love requires one to have a very strong consideration of the beloved. This strong consideration, if it doesn't displace one's own selfish ambitions, always causes the person in love to care about their beloved. One cannot have a real concern for and care about someone else and not be concerned about that person's well-being. A person's future is part of his well-being.

Logical Steps
Since Cloud is not concerned with the Planet's future and is not fighting for it (Truth/Axiom 1)
and Tifa's future is unavoidably tied to the future of the planet (Truth/Axiom 2)
and loving someone requires one to be very concerned for that person and his/her well-being, which includes that person's future (Truth/Axiom 3)
Then Cloud does not love Tifa.


Miscellenous Comments and Pre-Emptives
1. Caring for someone is an unavoidable requirement for loving that person. A concern for that person's well-being is necessary for loving that person. Someone's future, particularly where his/her life is threatened within a few days, is an inseparable part of his/her well-being.

2. Without considering other references to fighting for the Planet as subordinate to the one I outlined, then one can only interpret that Cloud is contradicting himself. This reference is given dominance because of how he explicitly outlines the reason for his claiming that fighting for the Planet may be considered a reason. The other times he says he's fighting for the Planet can, thus, easily fall under this category.

3. One cannot credibly claim that Cloud may be concerned for Tifa's future despite all of this. He makes it crystal clear that the fight for the Planet's future is not a concern of his. This entire speech would most likely have been given a large amount of thought. There is no reason to think that he may have overlooked the fact that the future may be of utmost importance to Tifa and the rest of his friends.


Conclusion: Thus, the hypothesis appears to be true.


Just pulling one of the essays out. This person really takes a bold stance claiming that Cloud does NOT love Tifa. Unfortunately for them, I can refute this. twisted First of all, because FFVII has been HORRIBLY translated, a lot of quotes are irrelevant at times. In a lot of cases, the Japanese version of FFVII-Cloud is a lot more affectionate to Tifa. Such as the scene where Cloud talks about what he's fighting for. In the Japanese version, he says that he's fighting for something personal, something dear to him....A promise. I don't remember the exact quotation, but I'll get it again....eventually. xd Plus, even WITHOUT the translation, the fact that Cloud said "to beat Sephiroth and settle his past"....Whose past would he be talking about if not his and Tifa's? Cloud and Tifa share the same past, whether they knew each other well or not.


...I am not sure what worries me more, the actual arguments, or the fact that they felt the need to try and set it as an experiment >.o

"Conclusion: Thus, the hypothesis appears to be true."

...and they can't even do that right >< Not only did they try to hard, I am not sure if they passed a single science class in their entire life.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:19 pm


Lol, you should check out the site then. Almost all of the essays are ridiculous and biased. They take things so far that it doesn't make sense anymore.

Twindream
Crew


tetrasmaster
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:13 am


Lmfao. Remember how I said that Cleris never seem to post any quotes? Well I looked at their quote section, and it really made me giggle.

Quote:
Aerith to Cloud in the Church after they first meet:

“How about if I go out with you once?”

Think of how flattering this must have been to Cloud!


I'm sure he was flattered. But being flattered is different than 'being in love' and it doesn't necessarily mean you love that person. If Cloud was really interested, he would've said yes to her.

Quote:
Aerith makes Cloud smile and laugh as he takes her back to Elmyra’s house from the Church.

This is the only time that Cloud smiles in the entire game.


Excuse me? What was that? You mean you actually saw Cloud's blocky, pixilated self smile? I watched that scene, and I didn't see a smile present. x] Tifa has made Cloud smile and laugh too. And she could have in VII, but the graphics kind of prevent you from really being able to tell. : O CoT shows Cloud smiling at her. LO does, and so does AC. There were probably times in VII where we couldn't tell, that Cloud was smiling at her also.

Quote:
“How could I ask you to go along when I knew it might be dangerous?”

Isn’t it sweet of Cloud to think of her safety?


Um, I guess. But Aeris isn't exactly "super fighting" material. Of course he'd want her to be safe, she hasn't done anything wrong and she can't defend herself as well.

Quote:
Cloud "Now's our chance to get Aerith!"

(Cloud runs into the tube and helps Aerith up from the floor.)

Aerith "Thanks, Cloud."

Cloud kneels next to her and helps Aerith up off the floor like a gentleman.

When do we ever see Cloud treat Tifa this way?


Yes in fact, we do. On the highwind. Under the Highwind. The Lifestream scene. The ending of VII. Need I go on?

Quote:
Aerith "I want to meet you."

Cloud "But I'm right here."

Aerith "I know, I know... what I mean is..."

Aerith "I want to meet..... you."

This is a Japanese colloquial expression meaning that Aerith wants a

romantic/sexual relationship with Cloud. (See our FAQ for more about this!)


No... just... no. What this means, is she wants to see Cloud for him, instead of seeing Zack in him. She wants to get to know Cloud truly and deeply. Yes, this hints that SHE wants something romantic, but that doesn't mean he wants it as well.

I'll type more later, but I have to go to school and such. XD
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:44 am


Quote:
This is a Japanese colloquial expression meaning that Aerith wants a

romantic/sexual relationship with Cloud. (See our FAQ for more about this!)


...Bahahahahhaha!!! That was great!

Truthiness3x4
Vice Captain

Twindream
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:25 pm


I could never understand WHY the Cleris insist that Aeris wanted a sexual relationship. rolleyes Get me a Japanese guy who can translate that one line in the Japanese version, someone! Plus, even if it WAS sexual, did Cloud answer to her? No, he did not. He was confused. lol And maybe a little freaked.

Quote:
Aerith to Cloud in the Church after they first meet:

“How about if I go out with you once?”

Think of how flattering this must have been to Cloud!


Just....stupid......OMG, Cloud's heart must have been beating like crazy! OMG, love at first sight! rolleyes

Quote:
Aerith makes Cloud smile and laugh as he takes her back to Elmyra’s house from the Church.

This is the only time that Cloud smiles in the entire game.


.....Who are they trying to convince by bringing up unclarified evidence? *Sighs* That just stung right there. And think of how many of these rabid fans running around giving false info!
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