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 Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:14 pm
I agree, but there are also some genetic tendencies, like with other mental disorders, like alchoholism
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 pm
german_bar_wench all a bunch of circumstantial psychobabble. I still say it's a mental illness. Well, that's just you, isn't it. It's not a mental illness because intimacy is involved, a loving relationship is formed, and an emotional connection is built. That's what determines an actual, substantial relationship-- It is *not* a mental illness because it is like any other relationship: Based on love, based on trust, based on a repore between the two people. This is what I don't get. How can love and intimacy ever be considered a mental illness?
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:56 am
german_bar_wench all a bunch of circumstantial psychobabble. I still say it's a mental illness.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:15 pm
toxic_lollipop german_bar_wench all a bunch of circumstantial psychobabble. I still say it's a mental illness.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:13 pm
toxic_lollipop german_bar_wench all a bunch of circumstantial psychobabble. I still say it's a mental illness. I'm not playing this game with you.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:58 pm
What game? You can't go around calling something a mental illness unless you have proof it's not. All I'm asking is to be provided with some proof to back up your claim.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:18 pm
toxic_lollipop What game? You can't go around calling something a mental illness unless you have proof it's not. All I'm asking is to be provided with some proof to back up your claim. There is nothing mentally stable about trying to pair off with someone of the same gender. That precludes attempts at procreation. The point of pairing off is to start a family, not merely "love and intimacy". Queerness is a mental illness. Trying to normalize it through psychobabble is ridiculous.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:27 pm
So then you must think that people who don't have children are mentally ill, older people who marry and can't have children must be mentally ill, as well as anyone who marries someone who is infertile. Right?
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:32 pm
toxic_lollipop So then you must think that people who don't have children are mentally ill, older people who marry and can't have children must be mentally ill, as well as anyone who marries someone who is infertile. Right? Nope. Your logic is faulty. They're wired properly, to be attracted to the opposite sex. I find people who choose not to have children to be selfish, but people who are infertile are only reproductively defective, not mentally ill. So to put it succinctly, the mental illness portion of it only enters into being attracted to the same sex rather than being mentally healthy and attracted to the opposite sex. Anything else is a non-mental medical issue unless it's a selfish desire not to have children at all, which could be argued either direction.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:40 pm
german_bar_wench Nope. Your logic is faulty. They're wired properly, to be attracted to the opposite sex. I find people who choose not to have children to be selfish, but people who are infertile are only reproductively defective, not mentally ill. So to put it succinctly, the mental illness portion of it only enters into being attracted to the same sex rather than being mentally healthy and attracted to the opposite sex. Anything else is a non-mental medical issue unless it's a selfish desire not to have children at all, which could be argued either direction. Quote: The point of pairing off is to start a family, not merely "love and intimacy".
So what you're saying is that being homosexual is a mental illness because they're attracted to members of the same sex. That's circular logic which has no basis what-so-ever.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:47 pm
toxic_lollipop german_bar_wench Nope. Your logic is faulty. They're wired properly, to be attracted to the opposite sex. I find people who choose not to have children to be selfish, but people who are infertile are only reproductively defective, not mentally ill. So to put it succinctly, the mental illness portion of it only enters into being attracted to the same sex rather than being mentally healthy and attracted to the opposite sex. Anything else is a non-mental medical issue unless it's a selfish desire not to have children at all, which could be argued either direction. Quote: The point of pairing off is to start a family, not merely "love and intimacy".
So what you're saying is that being homosexual is a mental illness because they're attracted to members of the same sex. That's circular logic which has no basis what-so-ever.that's some of the worst crackpot logic i've ever heard. The difference between marrying someone who happens to be infertile and being a queer is that the intent is there. Most of us are not going to learn about infertility until we try, and I'm against premarital sex as well. So your assumptions are incredibly cracked out. I've heard the infertility arguement from so many liberals it's not even funny how many of them assume that people know for sure who is and is not fertile, or that fertility is an unchanging thing. This is entirely untrue. people can become or cease to be infertile, and some keep trying and may eventually have good fortune to get pregnant despite doctors' claims of infertility. Stop trying to use your baseless assumptions about medical science being "right" or "correct" in regards to fertility. the "is a man" and "is a woman" factors are the only two constants in the entire equation, so those are the ones that matter.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:00 pm
german_bar_wench that's some of the worst crackpot logic i've ever heard. The difference between marrying someone who happens to be infertile and being a queer is that the intent is there. Most of us are not going to learn about infertility until we try, and I'm against premarital sex as well. So your assumptions are incredibly cracked out. I've heard the infertility arguement from so many liberals it's not even funny how many of them assume that people know for sure who is and is not fertile, or that fertility is an unchanging thing. This is entirely untrue. people can become or cease to be infertile, and some keep trying and may eventually have good fortune to get pregnant despite doctors' claims of infertility. Stop trying to use your baseless assumptions about medical science being "right" or "correct" in regards to fertility. the "is a man" and "is a woman" factors are the only two constants in the entire equation, so those are the ones that matter.
Once again, the "is a man" and "is a woman" factor is nothing but circular logic, you have yet to provide proof besides they like people of the same sex. Which isn't proof at all, as that is the debate. Providing proof that being attracted to someone of the same sex is a mental illness.
The intent of a "queer" or "homosexual" (same thing, but one is more polite.) marrying is to express their love and commitment to one another. Besides the inability to bear children you have provided no proof there's anything mentally wrong with that.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:23 pm
toxic_lollipop What about the ones who KNOW they're infertile. And you still haven't responded to the comment about people too old to have kids. If the only two things that matter is the "is a man" and "is a woman" factor than why did you bring up the fact they can't pro-create at all?
Once again, the "is a man" and "is a woman" factor is nothing but circular logic, you have yet to provide proof besides they like people of the same sex. Which isn't proof at all, as that is the debate. Providing proof that being attracted to someone of the same sex is a mental illness.
The intent of a "queer" or "homosexual" (same thing, but one is more polite.) marrying is to express their love and commitment to one another. Besides the inability to bear children you have provided no proof there's anything mentally wrong with that. you're the one with a circular logic. You're obviously uninterested in actually listening to anything I have to say, so I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:12 pm
My logic isn't circular at all. I'm applying your logic to everyone else. You can't say "This proves that these group of people have a mental disorder, but it's okay for another group to do the same thing and they're perfectly fine." and I'm pointing that out.
Therefore your logic boils down to "Homosexuals have a mental disorder because they like people of the same sex." That IS circular logic because we KNOW they're attracted to people of the same sex, and the debate is how that is a mental disorder. Your logic is circular because it's saying "It is because it is" with no basis behind it.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:01 pm
toxic_lollipop My logic isn't circular at all. I'm applying your logic to everyone else. You can't say "This proves that these group of people have a mental disorder, but it's okay for another group to do the same thing and they're perfectly fine." and I'm pointing that out.
Therefore your logic boils down to "Homosexuals have a mental disorder because they like people of the same sex." That IS circular logic because we KNOW they're attracted to people of the same sex, and the debate is how that is a mental disorder. Your logic is circular because it's saying "It is because it is" with no basis behind it. that's not circular logic at all. the only way it could be construed as such is if one is to take your statement that fertility is a fixed constant, which it is not. So it's not the "Same thing", as you assert. Queers have a mental disorder because they sexually desire people of the same sex. Period.
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