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I'll chastise weather I have the right or not, thank you. And I'm not bitching at you for agreeing, its because you do it so condescendingly.

I don't know what you mean by "not recognising vowels". I recognize their existance, though I may not use every vowel in every possible position. And if you're just pointing out holes in my transcription, well, its not like I was giving an extremely accurate scientific breakdown of all facets of my speech, so, yeah, its not 100% correct. But it should be good enough that common sense should make up for the finer details. If its the fact that I'm using "r" where ɚ would be mroe correct, I generally don't bother with that specific symbol, because again, common sense should make up for it, and its one less character to copy and paste.

Now, your transcription there sounds to me like you're over-anunciating (sp?). So then, unless you speak with your mouth as wide as you would if you had a baseball in it, to quote you, you must be typing wrong or theres something wrong with your transcription. I've never heard anyone speak like that unless they're talking to someone with hearing problems and/or incapable of closing their mouth all the way.

And I'm going to point out again, people talk differently in different areas. We don't come from the same backround, so we speak differently. If I speak like I've got a mouth full of peanut butter, or you do like you have a mouth the size of a pelican, neither is wrong, even if we both sound stupid to each other.

Okay, maybe I underestimated the extent of other peoples common sense.

How about this: point out the errors specifically, so that I can see what the problem is.

Here you are. Sorry I didn't preserve all your colours, but you can tell whats going on I hope.



Nope, that is how I say it. I believe that the "n" of "damn" is a residual feature of spelling, because notice that in the word "damnation" the "n" is pronounced.

So, I do say /hyumn/.




You're saying that it should be this /ɚ/, right? Well, as far as I have ever known, That and just the letter R make basically the same sound, but denote different functions in a word. I thought that it oughta be pretty obvious that it just represents this sound.

As far as my ears can tell, the sound /ɹ/ (which I believe is in the recording above) and the "r-colored vowel" /ɚ/ make the exact same sound. Tell me if they don't, but to me, they sound the same.

So, I thought it would be completely obvious and unmistakeable what sound I was getting at. Of course there is room for interpretation in anything, but to me, that seemes so blatantly obvious, I thought you'd understand.





Ugh, okay, technically, I should use the symbol /ɹ/, right? Well, I thought that in broad transcription of English, for sinmplicity they usually just use the normal r, it being obvious what it is in the context of most dialects of English.

It says this in the article: "Some phonemic transcriptions use the /r/ symbol instead of /ɹ/ for the 'r' sound for ease of typesetting, even though that technically represents the alveolar trill."

Thats whay I was going by.



I'd say that thats a relative thing. For me, its easier to leave it out.



Same deal again. I feel totally comfortable saying it the way I have there.



Okay then.

~
So, are my "errors" really that bad? It was that hard to understand? Yes, I used the plain r instead of the turned one, but I'm fairly sure that is a standard practice. And I ignored the actual symbol for the "r-colored vowel" and just used r again, but as far as I can tell, they make the same sound, and it seemed so completely obvious to me what my intention was, that there should be no way anyone would mistake it. Minor technicalities, but not anything I would have excpected to turn out to be such a big deal.

And the other things that you point out, they aren't actually errors, they are really the way I speak! Really. I don't see how it is a transcription error, if thats what I actually do.

Well, I happen to have no problem saying /r/ on its own. And also, it merges with the "z" sound in "beings", so its not like its alone anyhow. You could say that there is a hardly traceable release of air initially right before the voicing starts if I say it alone or at the beginning of a word, but every voiced consonant has that. And that moment is so tiny, it is inaudible, and theres not much of a reason to indicate it.

Maybe its that I pronounce /ɚ/ and /ɹ/ the same? Maybe I just use /ɚ/ always or something, because I can not tell the 2 apart at all, and I have no problem saying it by itself.

Yes, the n merges with the words around it, same way that the "r" above does. I'm not putting a vowel and not realizing it, its as if my prepositions and similar words have eroded to case endings that get squished directly into the word.

Well, I can say "wl" just fine. You could say that for a fraction of a second, if I pronounce it slowly there is the /β̞/ sound inbetween. But, I think that that only comes up during the little transition period from one sound to another. Halfway between the w position and the L position, for a split second its in the vage place the produces that sound. But its such a tiny unhear-able amount, I find it to be negligeable. And so when I say it, it just sounds like "wl".

Go ahead and do that, I can't stop ye.

R as in this, the alveolar approximant, /ɹ/.

I know that you've tried to explain. The /ɚ/ of "her" and the /r/ of "red" sound exactly the same to me. Is it that one comes at the beginning of a word, and one at the end? I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be stubborn, but I can not distinguish the 2 at all.

Same goes for that list. I understand what you're getting at, but the /ɚ/ or /r/ in all of those words sound exactly the same to me. They are identical.

Yes, "free nequal" is pretty much it.

About "wl". Okay. I don't see why you insist it is impossible.

"If you want to defend yourself here, think of a word that has /w/ or /l/ in a position with no vowel before or after it.

Well, theres the word "equal" again. Sure in spelling, its not like that, but in my pronunciation of it, it sounds like "ikwl" to me.

If you can't do that, try saying /w/ without putting a vowel before or after it. Try doing the same for /l/. If you say "I can do it" what's really happening is that you're saying a vowel instead of /w/ and /ɬ/ instead of /l/."

"I can do it", I say.

Okay then, what vowel would I be using instead of /w/? Because the /w/ in my /ikwl/ sounds just like the /w/ of other words, "wiggle", "womp", "whisker". That would mean that whatever vowel I am substituting for /w/, I'm using it all across the board.

And /ɬ/? I know what that sounds like, and I am not using that. Woud you consider this recording to be an accurate depiction of that sound? If you do, than I'm not saying that sound.


To see what letters CAN stand by themselves, simply stop your vocal cords from moving. Don't think of whispering, it's even quieter than that. All you hear is the unvoiced consonants. Those are the sounds that may stand alone. Sometimes nasals stand alone (/n/, /m/) but /l/ and /w/ definitely may not. They're approximates for god's sake.

So speak with out voicing anything? Okay. Now, heres the thing: I can pronounce /l/ and /w/ like that. Really.

Maybe I am using l̩ and r̩ then. And I haven't seem proof that /wl/ can't happen, and I'll never believe that it is impossible, since despite what you say, unless it is that in every instance of a /w/ in my speech I am replacing it with some other vowel, I am saying it how I am telling you. I just don't see why. All these things you say I just can't do, they're working out fine for me.

·:By the by, use this font if you can't see all of those letters.

http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=Gentium

·:I FOUND THE TIME to upload a video!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Dab_pTCJI
I ramble and act like an idiot in much of it but I tried really hard to get my point across... 10 minutes is not enough. I should've broken it up into segments but 6 takes to get just those 10 minutes right I were pretty rough on me.

·:So as not to offend anyone, I'm simply going to say "No" and nothing more...

No.

ʇsnᵷnɐ