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 Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:19 pm
PirateEire Xairip I wasn't straying off topic. You told me to give you proof that it's a sin, and I did. neutral That was Se Ga Takai who asked for proof. So, then... Both Takai and myself contested your proof as it were anywho, so do we get a response or no? You know. "OFFENDER" and such? I already posted that. Xairip Se Ga Takai care to Elaborate on the difference between a Homosexual and a Homosexual Offender? There's another verse about it, but I can't seem to locate it right now. And I'm guessing Offender is someone who is a practicing homosexual.
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:19 pm
i like burnination so ... Aristotle did not believe in human nature? besides, we're not arguing philosophy. we're arguing Greek semantics. He did believe in innate human nature. He believed in human nature. He believed in nature. From the looks of it, he found no absolutes to human nature whatsoever. Religion entails a great deal of philosophy, so it is relevant. Aristotle is perhaps the best to define the words and their usage, as opposed to any modern day scholar who might know a touch of Greek. Not a good debate method, though... To basically say "that doesn't count" when you don't like a source I have cited.
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:20 pm
Xairip -Snip- Teh Pirate hates long quotes. ><; And then my reply? Did you miss that one?
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:23 pm
PirateEire Xairip -Snip- Teh Pirate hates long quotes. ><; And then my reply? Did you miss that one? If you're referring to this: PirateEire Offender, people... Rapists.Does the story of Mr. Lot in Sodom ring a bell? Remember those crazy citizens? Rapists. Than no, I didn't miss it. However, I didn't see the correlation between rapists and practicing homosexuals (which is an offender).
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:33 pm
So are heterosexual offenders now just practicing heterosexuals? That doesn't seem quite right.
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:49 pm
PirateEire So are heterosexual offenders now just practicing heterosexuals? That doesn't seem quite right. No. You don't seem to get it. I believe that any gay person is sinning, but you wanted a definition of a homosexual offender. A homosexual offender is a practicing homosexual. Heterosexuals have nothing to do with it.
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:41 pm
Xairip PirateEire So are heterosexual offenders now just practicing heterosexuals? That doesn't seem quite right. No. You don't seem to get it. I believe that any gay person is sinning, but you wanted a definition of a homosexual offender. A homosexual offender is a practicing homosexual. Heterosexuals have nothing to do with it. And a heterosexual offender? You did not answer the question. What would that be? Your definition of an "offender" when regarding a homosexual is based off of a presupposition that homosexuality is a sin. If the Bible indeed does not actually say a thing about consensual homosexuals being in sin, then the negative connotation of the word "offender" cannot apply to "homosexual" in this passage. Like a heterosexual offender, it would mean a sexually immoral person, if you will. Some translations of the bible also call this a "homosexual pervert."
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:53 pm
PirateEire Xairip PirateEire So are heterosexual offenders now just practicing heterosexuals? That doesn't seem quite right. No. You don't seem to get it. I believe that any gay person is sinning, but you wanted a definition of a homosexual offender. A homosexual offender is a practicing homosexual. Heterosexuals have nothing to do with it. And a heterosexual offender? You did not answer the question. What would that be? Your definition of an "offender" when regarding a homosexual is based off of a presupposition that homosexuality is a sin. If the Bible indeed does not actually say a thing about consensual homosexuals being in sin, then the negative connotation of the word "offender" cannot apply to "homosexual" in this passage. Like a heterosexual offender, it would mean a sexually immoral person, if you will. Some translations of the bible also call this a "homosexual pervert." Actually, it does say that being a homosexual is a sin. I already gave you the verse. rolleyes
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:58 pm
Xairip PirateEire Xairip PirateEire So are heterosexual offenders now just practicing heterosexuals? That doesn't seem quite right. No. You don't seem to get it. I believe that any gay person is sinning, but you wanted a definition of a homosexual offender. A homosexual offender is a practicing homosexual. Heterosexuals have nothing to do with it. And a heterosexual offender? You did not answer the question. What would that be? Your definition of an "offender" when regarding a homosexual is based off of a presupposition that homosexuality is a sin. If the Bible indeed does not actually say a thing about consensual homosexuals being in sin, then the negative connotation of the word "offender" cannot apply to "homosexual" in this passage. Like a heterosexual offender, it would mean a sexually immoral person, if you will. Some translations of the bible also call this a "homosexual pervert." Actually, it does say that being a homosexual is a sin. I already gave you the verse. rolleyes no, you didn't, actually. You stated there might be a verse somewhere that you don't remember where to find, and you guess an offender is someone who is a practicing homosexual. How does that work as evidence in any way shape or form?
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:02 pm
Se Ga Takai Xairip PirateEire Xairip PirateEire So are heterosexual offenders now just practicing heterosexuals? That doesn't seem quite right. No. You don't seem to get it. I believe that any gay person is sinning, but you wanted a definition of a homosexual offender. A homosexual offender is a practicing homosexual. Heterosexuals have nothing to do with it. And a heterosexual offender? You did not answer the question. What would that be? Your definition of an "offender" when regarding a homosexual is based off of a presupposition that homosexuality is a sin. If the Bible indeed does not actually say a thing about consensual homosexuals being in sin, then the negative connotation of the word "offender" cannot apply to "homosexual" in this passage. Like a heterosexual offender, it would mean a sexually immoral person, if you will. Some translations of the bible also call this a "homosexual pervert." Actually, it does say that being a homosexual is a sin. I already gave you the verse. rolleyes no, you didn't, actually. You stated there might be a verse somewhere that you don't remember where to find, and you guess an offender is someone who is a practicing homosexual. How does that work as evidence in any way shape or form? Wrong. ^^ Xairip 1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders I said that there was another verse that I couldn't remember. But I DID post this one.
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:06 pm
Xairip Se Ga Takai Xairip PirateEire Xairip No. You don't seem to get it. I believe that any gay person is sinning, but you wanted a definition of a homosexual offender. A homosexual offender is a practicing homosexual. Heterosexuals have nothing to do with it. And a heterosexual offender? You did not answer the question. What would that be? Your definition of an "offender" when regarding a homosexual is based off of a presupposition that homosexuality is a sin. If the Bible indeed does not actually say a thing about consensual homosexuals being in sin, then the negative connotation of the word "offender" cannot apply to "homosexual" in this passage. Like a heterosexual offender, it would mean a sexually immoral person, if you will. Some translations of the bible also call this a "homosexual pervert." Actually, it does say that being a homosexual is a sin. I already gave you the verse. rolleyes no, you didn't, actually. You stated there might be a verse somewhere that you don't remember where to find, and you guess an offender is someone who is a practicing homosexual. How does that work as evidence in any way shape or form? Wrong. ^^ Xairip 1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders I said that there was another verse that I couldn't remember. But I DID post this one. That doesn't say just Homosexual that says Homosexual Offender! And that's the exact verse Pirate has been debating against with you! Stop debating in circles! scream
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:08 pm
Se Ga Takai Xairip Se Ga Takai Xairip PirateEire And a heterosexual offender? You did not answer the question. What would that be? Your definition of an "offender" when regarding a homosexual is based off of a presupposition that homosexuality is a sin. If the Bible indeed does not actually say a thing about consensual homosexuals being in sin, then the negative connotation of the word "offender" cannot apply to "homosexual" in this passage. Like a heterosexual offender, it would mean a sexually immoral person, if you will. Some translations of the bible also call this a "homosexual pervert." Actually, it does say that being a homosexual is a sin. I already gave you the verse. rolleyes no, you didn't, actually. You stated there might be a verse somewhere that you don't remember where to find, and you guess an offender is someone who is a practicing homosexual. How does that work as evidence in any way shape or form? Wrong. ^^ Xairip 1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders I said that there was another verse that I couldn't remember. But I DID post this one. That doesn't say just Homosexual that says Homosexual Offender! And that's the exact verse Pirate has been debating against with you! Stop debating in circles! scream *sigh* Some of you people aren't worth talking to. You just don't get it.
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:15 pm
Xairip Se Ga Takai Xairip Se Ga Takai Xairip Actually, it does say that being a homosexual is a sin. I already gave you the verse. rolleyes no, you didn't, actually. You stated there might be a verse somewhere that you don't remember where to find, and you guess an offender is someone who is a practicing homosexual. How does that work as evidence in any way shape or form? Wrong. ^^ Xairip 1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders I said that there was another verse that I couldn't remember. But I DID post this one. That doesn't say just Homosexual that says Homosexual Offender! And that's the exact verse Pirate has been debating against with you! Stop debating in circles! scream *sigh* Some of you people aren't worth talking to. You just don't get it. Pot meet Kettle?
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:20 am
Xairip, don't give up. Issue is, you're not really contesting anything we say beyond simple speculation with no sources cited on your part.
You think that "homosexual offender" means "practicing homosexual." "Homosexual offender" is, in Greek, "arsenokoitai." Now, I'm not going to waste my breath attempting to translate this word accurately for you. I have already done that, pages and pages back.
Now, I'd like to introduce a new idea about "arsenokoitai" that I dug up by accident doing a tad of research. W.L. Peterson brings up that Paul's culture and surroundings could not have allowed him to recognize a homosexual identity. The forms of homosexuality that occured in his time and culture were pederasty, prostitution, and a master’s sexual abuse of his slaves. Nothing beyond that. He was not familiar with any kind of loving homosexual relationship, nor was he familiar with anyone who assumed a homosexual identity. Homosexuality was an act, and those who committed homosexual sex were not necessarily homosexuals. Some may have even been heterosexual--except maybe not, as any kind of sexual identity did not exist in that time and place.
面白いよね。
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:07 am
PirateEire --except maybe not, as any kind of sexual identity did not exist in that time and place. it may be me being tired, or just the fact that I'm fed up, so please, bear with me a moment. If a sexual identity didn't exist, then how can we even be talking about homosexual marriage in a biblical context? If culturally, the homosexual identity didn't exist, then how could the culture have even comprehended the idea of homosexual marriage? It is reasonable to think that this would mean that it wasn't really sought after or practiced, or even had a signifigant amount of people wanting to practice it..... If people did not seek to practice homosexual marriage in biblical times... OF COURSE THERE ISN'T A FREAKING VERSE ABOUT IT!Paul wrote his letters to the churches to address specific issues within that church. That said, it is only in Romans that we get a signifigant section about sexual sin, and a slight mention of homosexual relations. There also one or two often quoted verses from Corinthians (can't remember if it's one or two), but that is basically all. (I am not counting verses that are often taken out of context as condemning of homosexuality...) Because there was not enough representaion of it elsewhere to merit a mention from the Apostle. heck, it obviously wasn't a huge issue amoung the culture that Jesus minstered too--he never said anything about it! I'm sorry...I just had my brain switch on and go: DUH! No WONDER we can't find a verse particularly against homosexual marriages! it would be like wondering, biblically, if Google was godly.....and we could go into a bunch of talk about verses that say to learn and gain knowledge etc etc, and we would probably be able to decide Googe is probably a good thing, and could be used for godly purposes. But there would never be a verse that said "And thou shall search with the power of Google" or some such. We can draw partial conclusions about homosexual marriage based on the bible's mentions of homsexuality and ideal marriage, but there will not be a verse that fits the specifics of what has been asked for in this thread: There will not be a verse condemning the marriage of homosexuals. Interpreting the bible guys. it is something we all do--gain meaning from a verse in a way that is applicable to the current lives, situations, and culture. I can't believe it took me so long to figure that one out. okay. I'm done being firery for now. Bed time.
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