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aw i hope its not a disagreement... I think its more of two peoples constructive opinions. Proto seems to cool to have to fight with!

Hmm you know I've never had a fight with proto O_o

Lolz. If it's an argument...Zineal haven't seen destructive mode Proto yet. No no, just pointing out the holes in some of Zineal's hatred. xDD

Yes, you're correct, personally, I never had an upsetting run-in with Hyuuga. If my first character was humiliated by a Hyuuga during an early run-in...my current views probably would be a lot different. Instead of being part of Uchiha and Hyuuga, I'll be hunting them down instead...

Though I must thank you Zineal...because of your noble sacrifice, Elruda managed to get out of the village while you kept Sosetsu distracted. She shall never forget you (if she ever meets Shadow, lolz). mrgreen A lv. 1 wouldn't have been able to escape without help (with no available Jounins at that time) otherwise.

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Over stealth. A sneak attack should logically precede first with hide/move silently checks against the opposing spot/listen checks. If the opponent doesn't notice, then you should be able to proceed with sneak attack in the following turn undisturbed (unless if there's a pet or summoning of theirs around that overcame your hide/move silently with counterchecks).

Since Byakugan is activated before taking the stance for the Juuken Kempo school, that'll be one hypothetical case that Kaiten is no convenient defense. Simply, since they didn't notice there was an enemy, there wasn't enough time to react, or even activate the doujutsu. It's logical. After all, though a Taijutsu...for all basic purposes, Kaiten is like a shield Jutsu's characterization in that there must be some awareness of the enemy: there's no possible way to defend without knowing you're in danger.

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Concerning the second case, sneak attacks involving Byakugan...I highly doubt they would walk around with the doujutsu on at all times, so it might've just been Zineal unlucky and running into an idiot... xP Since there's a chakra cost for it, that makes it no to eternal maintainence and a waste. By that time, they'll have about runned out of chakra before even being able to attack... O.o With Byakugan - usually - unactivated, they should logically only initialize if suspecting something's amiss with their surroundings (if your hide and move silently checks fell below their spot and listen).

If they do notice and activates Byakugan...then that would rule out close-ranged sneak attack (even with the blind spot, about 2/3+ of the attacker's body will be visible in close combat sneak attacks coming from the behind...) and limits ranged sneak attack (since it's a minor degree shortage, one kunai/shuriken/senbon attempt per attack turn fits about exactly into the blind spot degree radius...anything more, it's a blunt declaration they're under attack).

That'll be only if they stand still, since by passing the initial counterchecks (in this activated doujutsu case), there's awareness that there's a potential enemy. And awareness already cancels out sneak attacks in the first place.

So Neji got smarter in part two and moved around more. No more of Kidoumaru sniping his blind spot repeatedly due to the time wasted on arrogant preaching (demanding "come out" to the enemy...really...).

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So, the top. Like pointed out above, if you think about it, there's actually a number of possible ways that I believe can logically stop Kaiten other than Kusanagi. Methods are not just limited to kekkai genkai schools like Taida's abilities or Senju's, but certain mainstream techniques too. And they vary also, from temporary stopping to more permanent stopping (unless cutting the threads) like in Kidoumaru's spider clan case.

Kusanagi just happens to be the most convenient method. ^0^

Since exceptions exist...reasoning it out against your opponent is the headache part. If it's an unreasonable person...then it's wasted effort. I try that only reasonable people gets accepted but in the case that neither side would concede, I will judge in-battle Kaiten discrepancies.

Then don't get into a disagreement with Proto.

Were you one of the Genin? I remember Gihen and Nagi, then the second trip we got Kyo, i remember you being around but i didn't remember directly coming in contact with you haha XD

Haha i enjoy Proto's looong post, but then again i just enjoy a good conversation! As i said, before, i'll admit that Hyuga's are probably more alright then i give credit for, i just have a soar spot for them. But, for the sake of conversation!

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Yeah, i understand the whole stealth sneak attack thing, however a lot of times for a stealth ninja there is the whole aspect of sneaking up on someone, and delivering a turns worth of decent attacks, and then being screwed when the opponent turns around and starts beating the crap outta ya. i would gladly trade in 5 sneak attacks for one well placed slash against a muscle or an Achilles heel that would hinder the opponent. But i can't complain that much about it, considering i've developed my jutsus and tactics so that i'm able to strike, return to being hidden, strike, repeat.

The idea that was behind it when that fight was going down way that it was sort of an instinct. Kind of like if someone throws a rock at your face, you duck. So if you feel a blade start to sink into you, you use Kaiten to distance yourself from whatever danger, and take little to no damage.

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I think i'm just used to the Hyuga's of back when the guild was still young, cause back then there was zero cost (and as you said its not mentioned so its questionable how many people would acknowledge it) so it wasn't that much a of a stretch to have a twenty four hour Byakugan.

Oh, the blind spot was nifty. In the previously mentioned fight i only did damage once, and that was do to failing at initial sneak attack, avoiding/making sad attempts to fight back, beating the opponets hide check with a spot to notice the blind spot, using the last bit of my chakra to shunshin far enough away, and getting a few minor attacks in. In short, the blind spot rule seems to be fair.

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I think there are only a limited number of ways to stop a Kaiten in combat. Admittedly it does sound like we're comparing two different breeds of RP Hyuuga here, however i still find Kaiten irritating. The fact that its the only jutsu in the guild that is an instant hit, and instant stun. I think it would be much better if we gave the attacker a chance to reflex save (like he starts to punch, then notices he hits the chakra and tries to pull back before the devastation of the spin hits him)

Haha well that's good to have a fair judge. To bad i think all the Hyuuga's i used to spar with left the guild who knows how long ago. Still, if i face a Hyuuga again i'll consult you.

And out of curiosity, can Hyuuga's ignore flash grenades? Another one of my strategies that got ignored in the previously mentioned fight

Haha and that's how you get Kaiten-ed.

Still even against a normally Taijutsu use i'd get my a** kick trying to punch them in the face haha. Shadow kind of wimps out when it comes to straight forward, no strings attached combat. I've only ever won straight forward fights by manipulating things around me, such as setting a field of grass an enemy was standing in ablaze.

I tried the straightforward punch em in the face approach before, i always get my a** kicked haha. Shadow is such a wuss <.<

....i feel bad for him....cause this will go on for a while crying

chee- i think same thing but no punch in the mouth kunai in the mouth keep range from them they can do range but not as good as close combat

la de da de daaaa....

Someone talk to me?


@ Zineal // Thank you for your advice.