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 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:24 pm
Donovinhs Knight nathan_ngl Moocat ZonkotheSane Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual. So, basically, I'm technically not a lesbian if I haven't slept with my girlfriend? Nope, not by definition, nor by the torah 3nodding . Although the definition is really a female sexually attracted to another female, she isn't called a lesbian until she acts upon the attraction. you can be a lesbian without having sex sweatdrop ... like I said... " the definition is really a female sexually attracted to another female". They only deserve to be called so if they act upon it though.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:40 pm
nathan_ngl ... like I said... " the definition is really a female sexually attracted to another female". They only deserve to be called so if they act upon it though. does holding hands, kissing and being affectionate count? or only sex? cause your sort of contradicting yourself, 'they are but they arent'
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:45 pm
So, as soon as I sleep with her.
I'm going against the Torah?
But if I sleep with her, it's out of love and out of wanting to be close to her, wanting to show her I'm hers.
That's morally wrong?
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:04 pm
As far as love goes, it's not wrong at all. But we're jewish, so the torah comes into the picture. But of course, it's your decision whether or not to let it override your desires, don't let us make you feel guilty. The decision is yours 3nodding !
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:03 pm
nathan_ngl As far as love goes, it's not wrong at all. But we're jewish, so the torah comes into the picture. But of course, it's your decision whether or not to let it override your desires, don't let us make you feel guilty. The decision is yours 3nodding ! ^^ < 333 I just tend to believe that God wouldn't discriminate against others feelings.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:42 am
Moocat nathan_ngl As far as love goes, it's not wrong at all. But we're jewish, so the torah comes into the picture. But of course, it's your decision whether or not to let it override your desires, don't let us make you feel guilty. The decision is yours 3nodding ! ^^ < 333 I just tend to believe that God wouldn't discriminate against others feelings. omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient master and creator of all existance? somehow i don't think He should be the one worried about your wishes. but that's just my opinion on the matter.
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:15 am
i my opinon NO ONE but no one should think that "that word" should be ok.
not only halchakly by healthly. i cant think of anyone who can be on one side keeping halacha but saying "THIS" is ok to do! xd my opinon is NO. and i agree with the rabbi.
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:37 pm
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:58 pm
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:42 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:18 am
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:33 am
thank you, dear zonko, and tsvi, next time, explain!!!
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:56 am
tsshark thank you, dear zonko, and tsvi, next time, explain!!! there wasent alot to explain if zonko knew what i was talking about... wink
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:31 pm
Kiashana Today, after Yizkor, my rabbi made a speech that was... well, controversial. Very controversial. Basically, he said that we as a congregation, a community, and a religious movement (Conservative) need to accept gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered people. Now personally, I don't have any problems with this: I've got good friends who are glbt. One of them is kinda using the other computer in my house right now xp But I was wondering what everyone else's opinion on this is? I know that halachically, homosexuality is banned. My dad was furious at the rabbi's comments; he's basically Orthodox but we don't live in walking distance of an Orthodox shul. Other people seemed less concerned. So let's hear it! Do you think that a commited homosexual couple should be permitted to join a synagogue as a 'family', paying the rate of a married couple? How far should Jews go with accepting homosexuality? What would you say if your rabbi was going to officiate at a gay ceremony? Understand, I'm Orthodox, and my rabbi is Orthodox. That said, I know that our congregation welcomes Jews. Period. No questions about whether the gay ones are engaging in mesolel. No questions about whether the straight ones are engaging in taharat hamishpachah. My rabbi has spoken more than once about the fact that in all of Torah there is only one commandment given directly to homosexual men: "You shall not lie with a man as you would with a woman," which means no penetration. There are NO laws in Torah which speak to female homosexuality, though the Talmud does specifically make two references. One is concerning the fact that mesolel (literally "scratching," and you figure it out, I'm not describing it for you) is permitted; the other is that women are permitted, for a wide variety of reasons, to set up a household together. There are, by contrast, a couple hundred laws associated with heterosexual relationships. If we don't ask heterosexual people if they're following all those laws, we shouldn't ask homosexual people if they're following their one law, my rabbi says. He also says that men have more mitzvot because they need more in order to keep them reminded of spirituality. I'm guessing that heterosexuals need laws that encourage restraint, more than homosexuals need them. So if I found out that my rabbi were going to officiate at a same-sex ceremoney, I would be thrilled, because it would mean that Orthodoxy had undergone a sea change and permitted the community to recognize and support all the relationships in its midst, and not only the ones that could (theoretically) produce offspring. I say theoretically because we all know that there are infertile couples, and there are couples who have long passed the age of bearing or begetting children, yet they keep going. By the way, if only marriage makes it okay to have sex, why not allow gays to marry? At least it would keep them from transgressing.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:55 pm
Divash Kiashana Today, after Yizkor, my rabbi made a speech that was... well, controversial. Very controversial. Basically, he said that we as a congregation, a community, and a religious movement (Conservative) need to accept gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered people. Now personally, I don't have any problems with this: I've got good friends who are glbt. One of them is kinda using the other computer in my house right now xp But I was wondering what everyone else's opinion on this is? I know that halachically, homosexuality is banned. My dad was furious at the rabbi's comments; he's basically Orthodox but we don't live in walking distance of an Orthodox shul. Other people seemed less concerned. So let's hear it! Do you think that a commited homosexual couple should be permitted to join a synagogue as a 'family', paying the rate of a married couple? How far should Jews go with accepting homosexuality? What would you say if your rabbi was going to officiate at a gay ceremony? Understand, I'm Orthodox, and my rabbi is Orthodox. That said, I know that our congregation welcomes Jews. Period. No questions about whether the gay ones are engaging in mesolel. No questions about whether the straight ones are engaging in taharat hamishpachah. My rabbi has spoken more than once about the fact that in all of Torah there is only one commandment given directly to homosexual men: "You shall not lie with a man as you would with a woman," which means no penetration. There are NO laws in Torah which speak to female homosexuality, though the Talmud does specifically make two references. One is concerning the fact that mesolel (literally "scratching," and you figure it out, I'm not describing it for you) is permitted; the other is that women are permitted, for a wide variety of reasons, to set up a household together. There are, by contrast, a couple hundred laws associated with heterosexual relationships. If we don't ask heterosexual people if they're following all those laws, we shouldn't ask homosexual people if they're following their one law, my rabbi says. He also says that men have more mitzvot because they need more in order to keep them reminded of spirituality. I'm guessing that heterosexuals need laws that encourage restraint, more than homosexuals need them. So if I found out that my rabbi were going to officiate at a same-sex ceremoney, I would be thrilled, because it would mean that Orthodoxy had undergone a sea change and permitted the community to recognize and support all the relationships in its midst, and not only the ones that could (theoretically) produce offspring. I say theoretically because we all know that there are infertile couples, and there are couples who have long passed the age of bearing or begetting children, yet they keep going. By the way, if only marriage makes it okay to have sex, why not allow gays to marry? At least it would keep them from transgressing. not sure where you're going with that, so i'll keep quiet. for now twisted marriage is a sacred thing, on so many levels. i don't have so much time right now, nor do i trust myself to know everything involved (i don't do kabalah), but suffice to say that one of, if not the main travesty in homosexuality is taking fraternal love and making it into matrimonial love. i know that's a vague statement, but that's it in a nutshell. alternatively, one may reflect on why, on a list of over a dozen forbidden relationships, including incest and adultery, only homosexuality and bestiality are described as "abominations". lesbianism isn't explicitly spelled out, but is alluded to by the grammar and wording of the verse.
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