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 Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:30 pm
Moocat I guess that means being in love is against the Torah... -sigh- the modern western concept of love varies greatly from the jewish concept, as do many such terms. i'm not going to argue, because there's no point. you obviously have your own opinion, and nothing i say will make you change it.
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:32 pm
nathan_ngl Moocat I guess that means being in love is against the Torah... -sigh- No... that's not what the torah says... The meaning of sexual relationships was for reproduction... and if its homo-sex, there is no production... and therefore, the torah gives a severe punishment for two men that do such a thing... or women. different issurim involved, but still issur Quote: There's nothing wrong with love, the question is, what you do with it... Love can be sacred, and love can also be wasted and become a disgusting thing (eg. prostitution). or zoophilia
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:37 pm
ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl No... that's not what the torah says... The meaning of sexual relationships was for reproduction... and if its homo-sex, there is no production... and therefore, the torah gives a severe punishment for two men that do such a thing... or women. different issurim involved, but still issur We've been over this 100 billion times... It's an issur diribanan... but different streams of judaism have altered even Issurim diorayta... so, issurei dirabanan is just small fry...
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:43 pm
nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl No... that's not what the torah says... The meaning of sexual relationships was for reproduction... and if its homo-sex, there is no production... and therefore, the torah gives a severe punishment for two men that do such a thing... or women. different issurim involved, but still issur We've been over this 100 billion times... It's an issur diribanan... but different streams of judaism have altered even Issurim diorayta... so, issurei dirabanan is just small fry... those "different streams" hardly count. small fry?
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:38 am
ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl No... that's not what the torah says... The meaning of sexual relationships was for reproduction... and if its homo-sex, there is no production... and therefore, the torah gives a severe punishment for two men that do such a thing... or women. different issurim involved, but still issur We've been over this 100 billion times... It's an issur diribanan... but different streams of judaism have altered even Issurim diorayta... so, issurei dirabanan is just small fry... those "different streams" hardly count. small fry? What I meant to say is, that for such people that take Issurai deorayta lightly, an issur direbanan would be taken even more lightly, until it would probably even be considered a mitvah (I'm being sarcastic rolleyes ). If they already allow di'oraytah issurim like driving on shabbat, then do you think they would even hesitate to allow direbanan issurim?? Again, I say, it's small fry for people who look at judaism that way, live in such a society, and were raised that way.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:07 am
Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex.
Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed?
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:13 am
Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? Well, with cases such as incest, it's wrong once they they commit "gilui ervah", which means "uncovering the sexual organs". In the case of a man and a man, it's only punishible if it's sex. I deduce this because in the halaha, it talks of cases of more than one man sleeping in the same bed (poor people, man and his son, etc), and it states that he should be careful what he does at night - from here I deduce that two men sleeping in the same bed is not wrong, so as long as it doesn't lead to sex. Apparently, it was very common back then that men would share a bed. So, as long as it's not sex, I'd say your in the green 3nodding .
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:02 pm
nathan_ngl What I meant to say is, that for such people that take Issurai deorayta lightly, an issur direbanan would be taken even more lightly, until it would probably even be considered a mitvah (I'm being sarcastic rolleyes ). If they already allow di'oraytah issurim like driving on shabbat, then do you think they would even hesitate to allow direbanan issurim?? Again, I say, it's small fry for people who look at judaism that way, live in such a society, and were raised that way. still, a small fry with a punishment of chiav misa min hashamyim? (tzeduki) that ain't small fry logic and torah have absolutely nothing to do with each other, in the idealogies of such poeple. the terms "d'rabbanan" and "d'araysah" have consequential meaning. what issurim they do abide, if any at all, are dictate by their own personal beliefs, ideas, and tastes. so, no, i don't think they use m'kav b'chomer (sp)
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:07 pm
Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:52 pm
ZonkotheSane Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual. So, basically, I'm technically not a lesbian if I haven't slept with my girlfriend?
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:08 pm
Moocat ZonkotheSane Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual. So, basically, I'm technically not a lesbian if I haven't slept with my girlfriend? yup.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:10 pm
ZonkotheSane Moocat ZonkotheSane Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual. So, basically, I'm technically not a lesbian if I haven't slept with my girlfriend? yup.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:46 pm
Moocat ZonkotheSane Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual. So, basically, I'm technically not a lesbian if I haven't slept with my girlfriend? Nope, not by definition, nor by the torah 3nodding . Although the definition is really a female sexually attracted to another female, she isn't called a lesbian until she acts upon the attraction.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:55 pm
nathan_ngl Moocat ZonkotheSane Moocat Well, what if I tell you we haven't had sex. Is it still considered wrong? Or is it only wrong once two men or two women get into bed? the actual act of homosex is what defines one's status as homosexual. So, basically, I'm technically not a lesbian if I haven't slept with my girlfriend? Nope, not by definition, nor by the torah 3nodding . Although the definition is really a female sexually attracted to another female, she isn't called a lesbian until she acts upon the attraction. you can be a lesbian without having sex sweatdrop
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